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#Post#: 913--------------------------------------------------
Re: Power Structures in Human Society: Pros and Cons Part 1
By: AGelbert Date: April 11, 2014, 7:36 pm
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[quote]The elephant that is missed and it is a big elephant is
that it is a universally recognized truth that power corrupts
and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Since power is the
ability to control people then it follows that the larger any
organization becomes the more likely it is corrupt as the
controllers has the ability to control a larger pool of people.
This phenomenon applies to private AND public institutions yet
it is largely only public institutions were this corruption is
recognized and scrutiny applied. This is one of the fundamental
problems.
[/quote]
HTML http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_0293.gif
I'll go further; I'll say it IS the problem. WHY? because it is
CFS that society benefits from cooperation (I.E. A GOVERNMENT)
to foster group health and a harmonious co-existence with fellow
humans ONLY as long as everybody has equal voting power (That
includes the government AND the corporate fascists that are
allowed to run roughshod over the people by said bought and paid
for "government"). We know the elite don't want that so they lie
and push propaganda that disguises the obvious theft of power
and resources that is the daily bread of the bastards in power.
All this blah blah out there about the poor being a "drag" on
society and a threat to communities has always been a bait and
switch to avoid saying who the REAL DRAG on society and a threat
to communities are (the rich = the parasites
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/2rzukw3.gif
that hate democracy
and work day and night to keep us from having it while claiming
they "support" it in true Orwellian speak. ).
The inane, illogical claptrap that passes for reasoned speech in
the public airwaves of the U.S. is 100% BS to avoid actually
talking sense. >:( The Libertarian Liars are number one on my
list of prevaricators but they aren't the only ones; they are
just more brazen about their callous disregard for their fellow
man.
#Post#: 929--------------------------------------------------
The MYTH of human progress.
By: AGelbert Date: April 17, 2014, 12:13 am
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HTML http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_myth_of_human_progress_and_the_collapse_of_complex_societies_video_2014
#Post#: 934--------------------------------------------------
Power Structures in Human Society are going to be MODIFIED by ET
soon.
By: AGelbert Date: April 20, 2014, 1:00 am
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HTML http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSz34qtulk&feature=player_embedded<br
/>
#Post#: 937--------------------------------------------------
Far out! It's all true. They are here. Somehow that eases my min
d.
By: AGelbert Date: April 21, 2014, 1:13 am
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HTML http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPIb1amrfns&feature=player_embedded
#Post#: 938--------------------------------------------------
The cover up is rather long in the tooth. Good!
By: AGelbert Date: April 21, 2014, 1:16 am
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HTML http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wPCL9V0puU&feature=player_embedded
#Post#: 949--------------------------------------------------
Re: Power Structures in Human Society: Pros and Cons Part 3
By: alan2102 Date: April 24, 2014, 2:51 pm
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[quote author=AGelbert link=topic=17.msg149#msg149
date=1382569387]
It's really an Occam's razor type problem (a principle urging
one to select from among competing hypotheses that which makes
the fewest assumptions). Because the 1% are our leaders, the
masses of humanity always attempt to imitate what the 1% do,
period. When the 1% stop their massive piggery, the small scale
piggery of the masses will stop as well. Claiming that the 1%
only "do what they do" because the 99% are a bunch of sheep is a
half truth. True, we sheep are unfortunately permitting the 1%
to parasitically prey on us. But putting the onus on the sheep
is "blame the victim" illogic.
[/quote]
Yes. And neo-Malthusians specialize in just that sort of
illogic: victim-blaming. Malthusianism is the close kin of
elitism, feudalism, fascism and other skanky fetid social ideas
-- added to its reflection of personal pathology (depression,
nihilism, defeatism, misanthropy, etc.).
[quote]
It's not the 99%'s biomass (e.g. ants have more than humans)
that is destroying the biosphere; it's the 1%'s carbon footprint
by a huge margin despite their tiny biomass. A detailed study of
per capita footprint which includes resource ownership by wealth
would conclusively prove that.
[/quote]
I don't think it needs to be "proven" so much as simply
mentioned. It is obviously true. Which is not to say that (mass)
population pressure does not have an effect; it does. But first
things first.
If you were not aware of this work, you should be: How the Rich
are Destroying the Earth, by HervΘ Kempf. Below are links
to reviews, and snippets. You'll love the bit about how
"oligarchs vie with one another in sumptuary competition and
EVERY SOCIAL STRATUM BENEATH DOES THE SAME". Ha.
The book is from 2008. I posted this stuff to a bunch of fora at
that time -- energyresources on yahoo, savinar's joint, etc.,
etc. I don't think it did any good. Malthusians are too stuck in
their ideology and too anxious to blame the common people -- if
not actually relish the prospect of mass dieoff (get rid of all
those low-class "useless eaters") -- to see the obvious for
which Kempf is arguing. The real primary issue, as Kempf makes
clear, is profligate consumption, not profligate reproduction.
The common people have actually done very good at controlling
their reproduction over the last 50 years, what with fertility
dropping off drastically almost everywhere. How much better
could they be expected to do? That is, could it be reasonably
expected that everyone CEASE reproducing entirely, reducing
fertility to ZERO? No, of course not. Whereas, it IS reasonable
to expect the wealthy to cease their wild profligate
overconsumption (but instead, they'll gone in the opposite
direction). I argued this point at length, but to no avail. The
misanthropic Malthusian mind cannot grasp such an idea.
Anyway...
SNIPPETS from reviews and excerpts at these links (hopefully the
links are still good; they are from 2008):
HTML http://www.forewordmagazine.com/reviews/viewreviews.aspx?reviewid=4337&rssref=20080927
HTML http://thepanelist.com/Opinions/Opinions/Book_Review:_How_the_Rich_Are_Destroying_the_Earth_200809151182/
HTML http://www.truthout.org/article/how-rich-are-destroying-planet
HTML http://climateandcapitalism.com/?p=555
"The book's central thesis [is] that the 'oligarchy,' a global
stateless class composed of the hyper-rich and the 'new
Nomenklatura,' is responsible for our species' headlong rush to
environmental destruction, both indirectly, through the rest of
society's attempts to imitate and emulate their wasteful habits
of conspicuous consumption, and directly, through their control
of the levers of power, all presently fixed at the 'Catastrophe'
setting'."
"[Kempf depicts] a predatory, self-perpetuating elite that has
become wealthy 'not through success in production, but through
constant redistribution of collective wealth' (think
Halliburton or Blackwater senior executives and shareholders)
and that lives '...separated from the plebians. They are not
aware of how the poor and wage-earners live; they don't know and
don't want to know.' No sense of the public good or civic virtue
moves 'this predatory and greedy controlling class, wasting its
rents, misusing its power, (it) congeals as an obstacle on the
way. It bears no proposal, is animated by no ideal, delivers no
promise ... is blind to the explosive power of obvious
injustice. And blind to the poisoning of the biosphere that
growth in material wealth provokes, a poisoning that means a
degradation of the conditions for human life...'"
"None of this would matter so much, Kempf suggests, were it not
for insatiable human rivalry in ostentation. Globally, wealth is
an indicator of status and the social stimulus of emulation and
imitation creates limitless 'needs.' Drawing on Veblen's 'Theory
of the Leisure Classes,' Kempf suggests that production is
adequate, but consumption is excessive as oligarchs vie with one
another in sumptuary competition and EVERY SOCIAL STRATUM
BENEATH DOES THE SAME." [emphasis added]
"[S]ince justice demands that the consumption of the poorest be
increased, 'the rich have to consume less.' That last
requirement would appear to apply to me and to almost anyone
reading these words online."
"Since the collapse of the former USSR, it appears that
capitalism no longer needs democracy -- so antithetical to the
oligarchy's objectives. Terrorism is the latest alibi to tighten
security, criminalize dissent, expand surveillance and imprison
the poor. 'The hyper-rich will attempt to maintain their
excessive advantages by force as they did after Hurricane
Katrina, when armed forces were sent -- not to help the drowning
poor -- but to hunt down looters."
"There is hope, Kempf says, but not in the measures people
think. Sustainable development is pointless. The technology that
supposedly will save us won't develop in time. To stop the
inertia of destruction, society, particularly the hyper-rich,
need to soberly rethink their lifestyles."
Kempf: "To achieve [our] goals, it is not enough for society to
become aware of the urgency of the ecological crisis -- and of
the difficult choices its prevention imposes, notably in terms
of material consumption. It will further be necessary that
ecological concerns articulate themselves as a radical political
analysis of current relationships of domination. We will not be
able to decrease global material consumption if the powerful are
not brought down and if inequality is not combated. To the
ecological principle that was so useful at the time we first
became aware -- 'Think globally; act locally,' -- we must add
the principle that the present situation imposes: 'Consume less;
share better.'"
"The book seems to me an incredible tour de force. I could not
imagine it possible to lay out systematically, with sentences of
classical limpidity and concision, such a complete, as well as
completely persuasive argument for what ails the world and what
needs to be addressed. The dense connections between all the
disturbing phenomena of recent years -- ecological degradation
to the point of habitat destruction for our own species,
increasing social inequality and unemployment, the new
totalitarianism (government snooping, torture, the percentage
increase in prison populations), and the disappearance of a
seriously contentious press are simply and powerfully
delineated."
#Post#: 950--------------------------------------------------
Re: Power Structures in Human Society: Pros and Cons Part 1
By: guest17 Date: April 24, 2014, 2:59 pm
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Whoops! made a coding error on the snippets above (strikeout of
last several paragraphs), and no way to edit.
Here's the corrected text:
"Since justice demands that the consumption of the poorest be
increased, 'the rich have to consume less.' That last
requirement would appear to apply to me and to almost anyone
reading these words online."
"Since the collapse of the former USSR, it appears that
capitalism no longer needs democracy -- so antithetical to the
oligarchy's objectives. Terrorism is the latest alibi to tighten
security, criminalize dissent, expand surveillance and imprison
the poor. 'The hyper-rich will attempt to maintain their
excessive advantages by force as they did after Hurricane
Katrina, when armed forces were sent -- not to help the drowning
poor -- but to hunt down looters."
"There is hope, Kempf says, but not in the measures people
think. Sustainable development is pointless. The technology that
supposedly will save us won't develop in time. To stop the
inertia of destruction, society, particularly the hyper-rich,
need to soberly rethink their lifestyles."
Kempf: "To achieve [our] goals, it is not enough for society to
become aware of the urgency of the ecological crisis -- and of
the difficult choices its prevention imposes, notably in terms
of material consumption. It will further be necessary that
ecological concerns articulate themselves as a radical political
analysis of current relationships of domination. We will not be
able to decrease global material consumption if the powerful are
not brought down and if inequality is not combated. To the
ecological principle that was so useful at the time we first
became aware -- 'Think globally; act locally,' -- we must add
the principle that the present situation imposes: 'Consume less;
share better.'"
"The book seems to me an incredible tour de force. I could not
imagine it possible to lay out systematically, with sentences of
classical limpidity and concision, such a complete, as well as
completely persuasive argument for what ails the world and what
needs to be addressed. The dense connections between all the
disturbing phenomena of recent years -- ecological degradation
to the point of habitat destruction for our own species,
increasing social inequality and unemployment, the new
totalitarianism (government snooping, torture, the percentage
increase in prison populations), and the disappearance of a
seriously contentious press are simply and powerfully
delineated."
#Post#: 952--------------------------------------------------
Re: Power Structures in Human Society: Pros and Cons Part 1
By: guest17 Date: April 24, 2014, 3:08 pm
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PS: Agelbert, you're doing a great job! I respect your tenacity
and willingness for fight the good fight, even creating your own
zone on the diner. I only wish your good work were in a venue
more likely to get serious traffic/exposure. As long as you're
associated with the diner you will never get the audience that
you deserve, and that's a shame.
#Post#: 955--------------------------------------------------
Re: Power Structures in Human Society: Pros and Cons Part 1
By: AGelbert Date: April 25, 2014, 12:32 am
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Thanks Alan,
I'm done with the DD. As a matter of fact, I don't plan to post
too frequently here either. Things are not going well for me. I
don't want to depress people. If you are willing, I'll make you
an Admin on this site too. Then you can play around with the
features and fine tune the place to your taste by possibly
adding a board for special subjects or whatever. Perhaps you can
attract more readers. For now, it's more of a reference library
for videos and rants than a forum. Now that my Hispanic islander
heritage (commonly known by people of Golden Oxen's and
Snowleopard's "caliber" as a SALT WATER N I G G E R - I was
called that now and then while I worked in the FAA even though I
could think and talk rings around most of the good old white
boy/bigots there) is common knowledge, most bigoted wasps or
was(whatever) like the Karpatok nut case aren't interested in a
anything I say. That's life. I've got some good sci fi reading
and viewing to catch up with. 8)
By the way, you didn't make a mistake on your post. The problem
is that when a piece has an "S" in brackets, the forum code
jumps up and assumes you want to [s]cross out something[/s]. :P
Just go to your post and put [ S ] spaced out and the forum code
won't try to cross anything out. ;)
Be well.
#Post#: 956--------------------------------------------------
Re: Power Structures in Human Society: Pros and Cons Part 1
By: Surly1 Date: April 25, 2014, 5:51 am
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AG, sorry to hear you are not doing well.
While I enjoyed Alan's post in re Kempf's book, I disagree with
what he says about DD. The current trend is that the DD is
gaining in Alexa rankings every week. It stands to reason that
your own traffic would benefit from association with something
being seen by more eyes every week.
Sincerely hoping for better times ahead.
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