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#Post#: 1085--------------------------------------------------
Watch the White House Finally Go Solar
By: AGelbert Date: May 9, 2014, 5:32 pm
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HTML http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORni8uiuslI&feature=player_embedded
[img width=100
height=100]
HTML http://images.ame4u.com/Animated_Clipart/Animated-Solar/sun_shining_solar_panel_hg_clr__st.gif[/img]
Watch the White House Finally Go Solar [img width=60
height=60]
HTML http://www.smile-day.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Smiley-Thumbs-Up2.jpg[/img]<br
/>
HTML http://ecowatch.com/2014/05/09/watch-white-house-go-solar/
#Post#: 1088--------------------------------------------------
Re: Watch the White House Finally Go Solar
By: guest2 Date: May 10, 2014, 7:57 pm
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[quote author=AGelbert link=topic=16.msg1085#msg1085
date=1399674753]
Watch the White House [s]Finally[/s]Again Go Solar
HTML http://ecowatch.com/2014/05/09/watch-white-house-go-solar/
[/quote]
Fixed that for you... in case you had didn't know or had
forgotten, Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the White House,
Ronald Reagan took them down.
#Post#: 1089--------------------------------------------------
Re: Photvoltaics (PV)
By: AGelbert Date: May 11, 2014, 12:11 am
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JD,
You are definitely on a pedantic streak. SIGH... ::)
I simply posted the headline of the article.[quote]Watch the
White House Finally Go Solar Brandon Baker | May 9, 2014 11:42
am [/quote] The panels Carter put on the White House were token.
The ones going up now are much more powerful and very permanent.
But of course you are right. The White house had some PV panels
before Reagan took them down.
Here's a nice link from this forum posted some time ago you
might be interested in looking over.
[quote]"And Jimmy Carter, after his famous fireside
cardigan-sweater chat urging Americans to conserve energy, put
solar panels on the White House."[/quote]
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/fossil-fuel-folly/40-years-back-40-years-forward/
#Post#: 1096--------------------------------------------------
Re: Photvoltaics (PV)
By: guest2 Date: May 11, 2014, 8:18 pm
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[quote author=AGelbert link=topic=16.msg1089#msg1089
date=1399785060]
JD,
You are definitely on a pedantic streak. SIGH... ::)
[/quote]
More impish than pedantic <(-:<
[quote]
I simply posted the headline of the article. The panels Carter
put on the White House were token. The ones going up now are
much more powerful and very permanent.[/quote]
I am glad to hear that these are much more powerful. I'm afraid
though that after hearing Bill Clinton talking about his wife's
plan to make all government buildings as energy efficient as
possible, even making the White House 100% solar seems a bit
token.
And I am very leery of history repeating itself if a Republican
gets elected in 2016.
[quote]
Here's a nice link from this forum posted some time ago you
might be interested in looking over.
HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/fossil-fuel-folly/40-years-back-40-years-forward/
[/quote]
Thanks, that does look interesting.
#Post#: 1098--------------------------------------------------
Re: Photvoltaics (PV)
By: AGelbert Date: May 11, 2014, 10:29 pm
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JD,
I hear ya about Clinton. On the subject of efficient heating and
cooling of buildings, notice in the White House video the office
building behind it. Amory Lovins discovered that they had put in
about 240 window air conditioners in the 1950s and screwed up
the design the architect had put into the building about 100
years ago or so that eliminated the need for most cooling
because of a clever window vent design (that the wall air
conditioners totally screwed up! >:().
The architects of old knew all about renewable energy in
building design before fossil fuels. Amory Lovins goes all over
the world teaching people how to cut 80 to 90 percent energy use
without ANY loss in comfort or manufacturing capacity AND most
of the time an actual increase in air quality because of
superior circulation prevents disease germs (from someone who
came to work sick) from being spread. Our industrial engineers
and fossil fuel happy architects
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/gen152.gif
have truly forked a
lot of things up.
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/www_MyEmoticons_com__burp.gif
The
key, known by architects of old and forgotten today but
rediscovered by Amory Lovins and his team of engineers, is that
you extract hot air from the TOP of a floor, not the middle or
bottom and you MUST avoid mixing the old air with the new by
introducing the new air at the lowest point on the floor area.
The way most systems are designed now, the fans and ducting push
germs (yep, hospitals too! Amory has done a lot of refits on
hospitals that have saved them a bundle on energy -> MUCH
SMALLER FANS, Pumps and less curves in ducting and pipes
carrying fluids AND made the air circulation better able to
prevent the spread of germs) around and use multiples as much
energy because the fans are working against the natural
gradient. In Amory Lovins building refits, the hot, old air or
hot ANYTHING from industrial processes is run through a heat
exchanger (not just ANY heat exchanger - these are new designs
massively more efficient at sucking heat out of air or liquid
flows with low or NO FOSSIL FUELS, thank you very much) BEFORE
IT IS EXHAUSTED so there is little or no waste heat and you get
energy to heat water or increase air pressure in an evaporative
cycle for air conditioning OR heating WITHOUT the use of a
fossil fuel powered compressor. It's all in those five videos I
posted on Energy Efficiency by Amory Lovins.
This is not Cornucopian stuff. The WASTE is MASSIVE. We ARE
talking about 80 to 90% of civilization unnecessarily using
power, PERIOD. We ACTUALLY need to spend only 10 or 20% of the
energy we NOW SPEND to do exactly the same things IF we become
efficient as we were before fossil fuels but with better
technology. Amory points out that MOST of the energy spent in
civilization is NOT in transportation, mining or industrial
processes manufacturing stuff like is commonly
believed
HTML http://www.coh2.org/images/Smileys/huhsign.gif
; MOST of
the energy, and most is WASTED because of poor design and
understanding of laminar versus turbulent flow of liquids, is to
power PUMPS. That's right; PUMPS! (Second video - energy
efficiency in buildings).
Don't believe me? Watch the videos. They are long. They are
boring but they are fastidiously accurate.
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/301.gif
Amory Lovins has done
refits all over the world from the Empire State Building to the
White House to Computer Chip Factories to whatever. The guy
KNOWS what he is talking about and has been DOING it, not just
talking about it, since the 1980s.
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/19.gif
Check him out. The guy is extremely down to earth, is not prone
to hyperbole or wishful/magical thinking and PROVES, with data,
ALL HIS CLAIMS. ;D
#Post#: 1100--------------------------------------------------
Re: Photvoltaics (PV)
By: AGelbert Date: May 12, 2014, 12:07 am
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HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS8u7Xw47VQ&feature=player_embedded
#Post#: 1104--------------------------------------------------
Re: Photvoltaics (PV)
By: guest2 Date: May 12, 2014, 10:52 am
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[quote]Don't believe me? Watch the videos. They are long. They
are boring but they are fastidiously accurate. Amory Lovins has
done refits all over the world from the Empire State Building to
the White House to Computer Chip Factories to whatever. The guy
KNOWS what he is talking about and has been DOING it, not just
talking about it, since the 1980s.
Check him out. The guy is extremely down to earth, is not prone
to hyperbole or wishful/magical thinking and PROVES, with data,
ALL HIS CLAIMS. [/quote]
Oh no, I definitely do believe you, I've been a big fan of Amory
Lovins for a long time. If I had to do my life over, I might
have tried to get an apprenticeship at the Rocky Mountain
Institute.
Only one problem: where are the videos you are talking about? I
can't find any links.
#Post#: 1105--------------------------------------------------
Re: Photovoltaics (PV)
By: Surly1 Date: May 12, 2014, 12:12 pm
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Yeah, AG, where are the links you referenced?
#Post#: 1109--------------------------------------------------
Re: Photvoltaics (PV)
By: AGelbert Date: May 12, 2014, 2:34 pm
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Surly and JD,
Here are the video links:
Energy efficiency 1 Amory Lovins
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=O5txQlEI7bc
Jump to the RIGHT steps in the RIGHT order for space cooling:
;D
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=O5txQlEI7bc#t=4075
Energy efficiency 2
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8kUih_t9aCs
Check this part out if you are in a hurry: "Eating the WHOLE
LOBSTER is mostly CFS, not rocket science"
HTML http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/emoticon-anime-047.gif
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8kUih_t9aCs#t=4292
Energy efficiency 3
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RjcWx7U1sjQ
Energy efficiency 4
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zW6gWZD4394
Energy efficiency 5
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=x-9jd2OMwJQ
The next industrial revolution
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1zfO3HW6xCw
PS: Also in Energy efficiency 2 Amory points to a world shaking
discovery that industrial engineers DO NOT WANT TO ADMIT. ALL
the Industrial and Mechanical Engineering textbooks are WRONG on
evaporative heat exchange coil design [color=red](massively, as
far as energy efficiency is concerned :o) BECAUSE the scientist
that discovered how a gas OR liquid moves through a pipe or tube
(how much FRICTION energy losses occur) in 1921 stated that the
flow is TURBULENT, not LAMINAR. THAT is exactly backwards, as
discovered by Amory Lovins! Do you know what that means? IT
means EVERY pipe and pressure gradient friction factor in EVERY
engine, pump, duct or pipe is DESIGNED for turbulent flow when
it should be designed for laminar flow. This is a GIGANTIC (and
very convenient for fossil fuelers!) WASTE of ENERGY! We are
talking well over 60 to 70% REDUCTION in energy use just by
redesigning ALL the above for laminar flow. This is because the
HIGH friction losses will no longer occur and, WITHOUT REDUCING
ANY OUTPUT OF WORK ENERGY, you reduce USE ENERGY by 60 to 70%.
Get Roamer to go through this stuff detail by detail. Maybe he
will finally see what I've been trying to tell him for over a
year, which he refuses to admit, about fossil fuels being
UNNECESSARY to run our civilization. Since I'm NOT an engineer,
maybe I can't get through to him. But Amory puts it all on the
table. Amory MEASURES, putting instrumentation all over the
place to get EXACTLY the accurate energy use picture without
old, out of date, or just plain WRONG, engineering text book
mantras about how much energy is used to do this, that or the
other. This is REAL, Surly. Our imminent demise is nothing but a
doomer's misplaced pessimism. [/color]
#Post#: 1110--------------------------------------------------
Re: Photvoltaics (PV)
By: guest2 Date: May 12, 2014, 4:06 pm
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Thanks, AGelbert. Do you mind if I repost this at the Doomstead
Diner? Roamer hasn't posted anything in a while, but he was on
today, so hopefully he will see it. (And, I was able to get
that information AFTER logging off, so I'm not abusing my mod
privileges by telling you that.)
I halfway agree with you about our imminent demise. I basically
am a techno-cornucopian but a political doomer. It is not the
doomer's nightmares that concern me, it is the sociopath's
dreams -- particularly the "better dead than Red" crowd. I
believe we can solve these problems if we work together, but I
fear there are those in power who would rather see us go extinct
than lose their control.
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