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#Post#: 1663--------------------------------------------------
Re: Electric Vehicles
DIR By: AGelbert
Date: August 5, 2014, 10:43 pm
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Nissan, Mitsubishi Partner Up For Ultra-Affordable $14,000
Electric Car
The partnerships of all electric vehicle partnerships has been
officially created.
Nissan is partnering 50:50 with Mitsubishi on a joint venture
with one goal: to develop a minicar-based electric vehicle with
release of the new model set for Fiscal Year 2016 (April 1, 2016
through March 31, 2017).
Both Nissan and Mitsubishi promise that this co-developed
electric car will be sold for the lowest price among major
automakers when it hits the market.
The plan is that Nissan and Mitsubishi will work hand-in-hand on
this EV. Key components such as batteries will be procured
through the economies of scale of two automakers combined.
It’ll be an electric minicar and we’re not yet sure if it’ll be
sold in the US.
However, it’s hinted that the price in Japan will 1.5 million
yen ($14,614 USD) including subsidies, or approximately the same
as a compact ICE sells for in Japan. For comparison, the
Mitsubishi i-MiEV sells for a base MSRP of 2.52 million yen
($24,300 USD) prior to subsidies in Japan. Or 1.78 million yen
when subsidies are factored in.
No further details are available at this time on the minicar
electric coming from Nissan-Mitsubishi.
HTML http://insideevs.com/nissan-mitsubishi-team-ultra-affordable-electric-car/
#Post#: 1664--------------------------------------------------
Re: Electric Vehicles
DIR By: AGelbert
Date: August 5, 2014, 10:50 pm
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HTML http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/graphs-sales.jpg
Tweets InsideEVs contributor Mark Larsen who forwarded these
stacked (bar graph) and sliced (pie chart) representations of
U.S. plug-in electric vehicle sales.
Above you’ll see cumulative model-by-model U.S. sales to date
(through end of July using sales figures obtained via InsideEVs)
and market share for individual plug-in electric models (again,
using InsideEVs sales data).
Also from InsideEVs’ contributor kdawg, a graph expresings both
the Chevrolet Volt and total EVs vs the overall auto market:
HTML http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/plug-in-volt-percentage-of-auto-sales-july-2014.jpg
HTML http://insideevs.com/us-plug-electric-vehicle-sales-date-stacked-sliced/
#Post#: 1684--------------------------------------------------
Re: Electric Vehicles
DIR By: AGelbert
Date: August 11, 2014, 6:44 pm
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First Zero-Emissions All-Electric BYD Bus Launches in Brazil
2014-04-04 Author： Source：www.chinabuses.org
Summarize：Fetranspor and Rio Bus, the public
transportation companies for the state and city of Rio,Brazil,
and BYD, a Chinese company with leading technologies on
batteries and electric vehicles, joined together at the opening
ceremonies for the launch of the BYD 100% electric bus this
week. This is the first pure-electric bus to launch in Rio and
is running now on line 249 (Water-Santa Carioca) operated by
Matias, the leader of the Consortium Internorte.
www.chinabuses.org: Fetranspor and Rio Bus, the public
transportation companies for the state and city of Rio,Brazil,
and BYD, a Chinese company with leading technologies on
batteries and electric vehicles, joined together at the opening
ceremonies for the launch of the BYD 100% electric bus this
week. This is the first pure-electric bus to launch in Rio and
is running now on line 249 (Water-Santa Carioca) operated by
Matias, the leader of the Consortium Internorte.
HTML http://image.trucktrend.com/f/features/news/2013/163_news130502_byd_electric_bus_plant/46545197/byd-ebus-left-rear-angle.jpg
First Zero-Emissions All-Electric BYD Bus Launches in Brazil
“The partnership with Fetranspor will be important to showcase
its economical and environmental benefits and help to develop
the market for low carbon buses.”The partnership, which aims to
test the bus on a regular line for one month, has the support
from the City Government through the City Department of
Transportation, and the C40 Cities Climate Leadership Group (a
network of megacities committed to taking actions to reduce
greenhouse gas emissions) and is currently chaired by Mayor of
Rio de Janeiro Eduardo Paes.
Participants attending the launch ceremony included Lelis Marcos
Teixeira, President of Fetranspor; Joao Augusto Monteiro,
Chairman of Rio Bus, Roberto Carlos Ozorio, Municipal Secretary
of Transportation, Julio Lopes, Secretary of State for Transport
of Rio De Janeiro, Stella Li, BYD Motors President, Cristina
Mendonca, City Director for C40 in Rio de Janeiro, Vagner Rigon,
Sales Vice President of BYD Brasil. Authorities and journalists
were able to ride on the electrical bus during its first drive.
Rio is one of the three cities in Brazil to test the 100%
electric buses from BYD (São Paulo and Salvador have done
successful tests already). The Operation Manager for Mobility at
Fetranspor, Guilherme Wilson said that, “the electric buses are
no longer just a promise; the electrical technology is a major
innovation in the urban mobility sector. In addition, this
vehicle has zero emissions, superior durability and lower
operating costs, all considerable advantages towards
sustainability.”
Companies in Rio have tested some types of buses before, like
hybrids, diesel from sugar cane, biodiesel, also CNG buses. The
pioneering favored this new partnership. "Fetranspor is a great
reference for testing new energy buses in public transportation
and the segment in Rio de Janeiro is a model for many cities in
the country,” said Vagner Rigon, Sales Vice President of BYD do
Brasil. “The partnership with Fetranspor will be important to
showcase its economical and environmental benefits and help to
develop the market for low carbon buses.”
Besides Brazil, the 100% electric bus has been tested since 2011
in several cities around the world such as Los Angeles and New
York (USA), Bogota (COL), London (GB), Copenhagen (DEN) and
Oranjestad (Aruba). BYD is testing the buses under different
traffic and road conditions, terrain, elevations and
temperatures to improve bus design.
HTML http://www.chinabuses.org/news/2014/0404/article_8003.html
#Post#: 1706--------------------------------------------------
Re: Electric Vehicles
DIR By: AGelbert
Date: August 17, 2014, 1:36 pm
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Tesla Extends Drive Unit Warranty To Infinity And Beyond ;D
HTML http://insideevs.com/tesla-extends-drive-unit-warranty-infinity-beyond/
#Post#: 1825--------------------------------------------------
Re: Electric Vehicles
DIR By: AGelbert
Date: September 6, 2014, 5:30 pm
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Georgia dealers want Tesla store shuttered for selling too many
Teslas
HTML https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/georgia-dealers-want-tesla-store-shuttered-for-selling-too-many-teslas-192235038.html<br
/>
HTML http://www.coh2.org/images/Smileys/huhsign.gif
[img width=500
height=250]
HTML https://s2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/13wkGW.VyB0kz5XIafEKLA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTczMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en-us/homerun/autos.cnbc.com/c51b29c32b7767a5a8b6aee3b5498afc[/img]
#Post#: 1886--------------------------------------------------
Re: Electric Vehicles
DIR By: AGelbert
Date: September 16, 2014, 7:55 pm
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HTML http://www.noticiasautomotivas.com.br/images/img/f/BYD-K91.jpg
BYD's green bus wins award
Updated: 2014-09-15 03:30
By ZHANG FAN in Sao Paulo(China Daily Latin America)
Chinese automotive enterprises BYD Co Ltd was recently awarded
the InovaCidade Award from Brazil's Smart City Business
Institute for the company's electric transit buses. The award
praises BYD achievements in technical innovation and for
producing more environmentally-friendly products.
"It is very meaningful for BYD because it shows that Brazilian
society values our technology. It is the first time for us to
win the award in South America," said Tyler Li, general manager
of BYD Brazil at the Smart City Business Congress & Expo America
in Sao Paulo on Sept 4.
Li said Brazilians used to think of Chinese products as cheap
and of poor quality, but winning this award shows that this
impression is changing.
"We want to prove to Brazilian customers that our products have
major technical advantages and electric buses will be a trend
for the development of public transportation," he added.
Smart City Business Institute, covering South America, is an
influential organization focused on innovation and urban
development. Other international brands such as Dell and
Microsoft also won the prize.
BYD's electric buses were also named as the Low Carbon Heavy
Duty Vehicle of the Year in the UK. The judging panel said BYD's
pure electric buses "have demonstrated impressive carbon savings
through their electric power train systems."
BYD entered the Brazilian market last November and its electric
transit buses have been tested in about 20 cities including Sao
Paulo, Rio de Janeiro and Salvador. Currently there are two
electric buses in trail service in Brasilia and Campinas.
The buses, according to the data from the company, can reduce
operating costs by up to 81 percent compared with petrol-driven
vehicles, which can greatly benefit bus operators and also
enable more Brazilian cities to improve their public
transportation systems.
"As the price of energy is more stable than the price of diesel,
the electric bus has shown that it is possible to reduce
pollution as well as operating costs of bus systems
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/47b20s0.gif,
which is consistent
with the civic demand for improvements in public transportation
without raising fares," said Adalberto Maluf , marketing
director of BYD.
The Shenzhen-based company launched its first Brazilian factory
this August in Campinas, an industrial city near Sao Paulo, to
produce the world's only long-range electric transit bus.
The 30,000-square-meter factory will be BYD's production base in
Latin America after it starts operations in 2015. The project
will absorb $91 million in investment from BYD over the next
three to five years.
BYD is currently the world's largest producer of rechargeable
batteries with products in Europe and North and Central America.
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191258.bmp<br
/>
Before exploring international markets, 780 of BYD's electric
buses have been in service in Shenzhen since 2011.
Besides BYD, BMW, one of the world's largest automobile,
motorcycle and engine manufacturing companies, also eyes Brazil
as a potential market. BMW just released its first family model
i3 in Brazil, available in eight cities including Sao Paulo, Rio
de Janeiro and Brasilia.
fanzhang@chinadailyusa.com
HTML http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2014-09/15/content_18596206.htm
HTML http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2014-09/15/content_18596206.htm
#Post#: 1937--------------------------------------------------
Re: Electric Vehicles
DIR By: AGelbert
Date: September 28, 2014, 1:46 pm
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K-Dog posts at the Doomstead Diner. He is an engineer and he is
an honest, reality based, do the math asset to humanity.
HTML http://us.cdn2.123rf.com/168nwm/lenm/lenm1201/lenm120100200/12107060-illustration-of-a-smiley-giving-a-thumbs-up.jpg<br
/>
--- Quote from: K-Dog link ---
>
> [quote author=RE link=topic=3282.msg57514#msg57514
date=1411893724]
>
> You can run a car on batteries, you'll have a lot tougher time
running a Caterpillar Back Hoe on them. Also tougher to run a
Big Rig yanking around 40 Tons of Paper or Beer with a battery
powered tractor. Not sure what the size and weight would be for
a battery pack even Li-I that could deliver the equivalent of a
600 HP Cummins Diesel, but I am quite sure it is pretty enormous
and unwieldy, not to mention expensive.
>
> Then you got the issue of moving enough electrons over an
aging grid to charge up such vehicles regularly. It's simply
not gonna happen.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Without calculating it out I'll throw out about two tons of
Li-ion batteries to deliver 600 HP equivalent. There really is
not a right answer since one twenty pound battery could deliver
600 HP but it would be drained in thirty seconds. Being able to
drive fifty feet before a new charge is needed is not going to
cut it. One issue in making a correct calculation is that
electronic and gas engines are specified in different ways. The
600 HP is maximum peak power but a 600 HP electric motor can put
out 600 HP all day long without 'redlining'.
I would not presume that electric equivalents could replace all
ICE engines. That would be impossible and using my Jevon's
Paradox in reverse argument demonstrates that very fact. My
argument falls apart if the very real differences between
electric and Ice alternatives are not considered.
Regarding the electric grid. It works or it does not. Wires do
not start carrying half their old current capacities as they
age. They conduct at rated current capacity until they break or
fall to the ground. The maintenance of the electric grid is an
issue that is to be concerned about for sure. I do not deny it
but the 'electric grid is falling apart' meme is bullshit.
Advanced by some who want to sell their own version of doomer
porn and fear this kind of doomer would also say we can't have
electric generators without rare earth metals which china can
cut the supply of at any time. I say this to one of them.
Really dude come on. Using steel with the right silicon content
we can make electromagnets with a greater magnetic field density
than rare earth magnets can provide. We have had the technology
to do so and have done so for a hundred years. Wind powered
generators can be built with 1920s technology which are plenty
efficient and powerful enough to substitute for modern
equivalents. Some antique collectors even like to find old
electric fans from that era. An electric fan or an electric
wind generator, different but not by much.
--- Quote from: RE link ---
>
> Then you got the issue of moving enough electrons over an
aging grid to charge up such vehicles regularly. It's simply
not gonna happen.
>
--- End Quote ---
We agree it is not going to happen. But perhaps for different
reasons. Technically it is possible but our society is
incapable of doing the logistic planning necessary to make it
happen. Human nature not technical reasons will cause our grid
to fall apart. As I said, a significant number of EVs could be
added to the existing grid without any changes. Wire does not
wear out and loose current carrying capacity. If everybody went
EV the grid would have to be enlarged. Your average liberetard
would say 'the market' can take care of that. Yeah, in their
dreams. The grid needs work yes, and my house needs painting.
But neither will fall apart tomorrow.
[move][glow=blue,3,500]
We can argue all day about the glass being half full or half
empty but we agree the glass is half of something. Our bane are
those who insist the glass is full or all the way empty without
even looking at the glass just because they want to believe that
way.[/glow][/move]
[member=2]jdwheeler42[/member] Yes, trains have the best
efficiency of all transportation types. But not the old smoke
billowing steam kind of choo- choos. They were extremely
inefficient.
[/quote]
#Post#: 1938--------------------------------------------------
Re: Electric Vehicles
DIR By: AGelbert
Date: September 28, 2014, 1:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: K-Dog link ---
>
> [quote author=RE link=topic=3282.msg57507#msg57507
date=1411870725]
>
> The loss rate in converting heat energy to electrical energy
before the conversion then to mechanical energy to drive the
car.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
There is always loss when one form of energy is converted to
another. In the real world the laws of thermodynamics demand
it, entropy considerations. In that I agree. Yet I see three
advantages to using EVs which deserve consideration.
Economies of scale makes large scale power generation more
efficient than individual power generation resulting from
conventional engines. Batteries can also be charged at
reasonably high efficiencies. Together these facts mitigate
your loss consideration.
Secondly charging of batteries will be done at night generally
when power is cheapest. The daylight infrastructure then has
surplus capacity. A significant number of EVs can be charged
without any additional cost to the electric grid.
Thirdly, and which I consider most important. EVs are not the
same as conventional cars. Evs have to be used differently and
with more consideration as it takes time to charge them and
because they have limited range. What seems like a disadvantage
is actually an advantage. Less total energy is used and all the
important things people think they have to do would still get
done. An alternative way of doing transportation with overall
reduction in maintenance cost (less energy used). A reverse
engineered technology that has less overall energy demand steps
towards a sustainable future. Lower range lead acid batteries
would also give a superior social reward than lithium batteries
would.
That is, If it is not too late and it is just something I ate.
Comparing EVs to cars it is easy to assume that they directly
substitute but they don't. They are a different animal. One
with a lower carbon footprint so long as somebody does not make
a super battery. Sadly much work and effort is being spent to
do just that. Fortunately it is very hard to do.
[move][glow=blue,2,300]Reverse engineer and forsake the religion
of progress.[/glow][/move]
If my argument still seems counter-intuitive think about Jevon's
paradox. I'm presenting it to you in reverse form.
[/quote]
HTML http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/index.php/topic,3282.msg57513.html#msg57513
#Post#: 1944--------------------------------------------------
Re: Electric Vehicles
DIR By: AGelbert
Date: September 28, 2014, 9:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
EV vs ICE Maintenance – The First 100,000 miles
2 years ago by Mark Hovis ( Don't forget EV prices have gone
down since then!)
If you drive an ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) and have a
service file, take it out for comparison. If you own an ICE and
don’t have a service file, you should start one, for you will be
shocked with how much time and effort you really spend on your
vehicle. You may find the service costs found here higher or
lower. They are listed as a reminder of how often you require
service. The more expensive your auto, the more the manufacturer
or dealer pads the service charges. Still, you have to endure
these regular maintenance issues.
Tires
Tires are the common denominator between both types of vehicles.
The recommended rotation is every 7500 miles. Hence you will
have 13 scheduled trips to your mechanic in the first 100,000
Check the fluids!
Oil change
ICE: The frequency of oil changes vary from person to person and
manufacturer. The number used to be 3000 miles. If you change
every 5000, that will be 20 scheduled visits out of your daily
routine and about $400-$800.
EV: No thanks! ;D
Automatic transmission fluid
ICE: This is generally recommended to be changed at 100,000.
Depending on whether you flush the system and change the filter
or just add fluid, you will spend between $30-$100
EV:No thanks! ;D:
Coolant
ICE: Generally this will last for 150,000 before recommended
change, but you DO have to keep a check on it throughout the
life of the ICE for you can do considerable engine damage if you
let it run hot.
EV: If you have a thermal management system on your battery, you
will have a similar check.
Fuel
400 visits isn't that bad ;)
HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/4fvfcja.gif
ICE: The frequency with which a person fills their ICE varies.
The norm is generally once per week. If this is your pattern,
and you are driving the national average of 12,750 miles per
year, then you have invested FOUR HUNDRED TRIPS to the gas
station in your first 100,000 miles. For the lucky, the trip is
on their normal route, for others, four hundred special trips. I
call that heavy maintenance! 100,000 miles @ $3.50/gal and avg
of 28 miles/gal costs $12,500. Calculate your own
EV: You have plugged and unplugged daily for eight years
normally taking 3-5 seconds. The difference being 90 percent are
done at the convenience of your home, not investing in an
additional four hundred visits to the pump. Average cost 3.5
cents/mile $3500. Check out what EV drivers say about this.
:icon_mrgreen:
Spark Plugs and wires
ICE: Generally recommended in the first 100,000. Cost DIY $60
Shop $200.
EV:No thanks! ;D
Muffler
(and a tail pipe) 8)
ICE: Location and driving distance are just a few issues that
will determine the life of your muffler. Short distances do not
give time for condensation to dry out thus shortening the life
unless it is stainless steel. It is also a high probability that
you have to replace more than just the muffler. Generally
$100-$250
EV:No thanks! ;D
Brakes
ICE: Depending on your vehicle and driving style, you will
probably have at least 2 trips to your mechanic in the first
100,000. Will budget $200 per visit so call it $400
EV: The regenerative brakes will cut your visits to the
mechanic in half. Still we will plan on one visit in the first
100,000. Costs $200 ;D
The big 100,000 mile maintenance
Ka-Ching! :P
ICE: Timing belts are recommended every 60,000-100,000 with most
ICEs not equipped with timing chains. In fact, most recommend
that you go ahead and replace the water pump while you are at
it. Most service centers will charge for the pump only since the
labor is already invested in the timing belt. Cost $600- $800
for the timing belt only. $900- $1100 for both.
Other possible expenses that the ICE can encounter in the first
100,000 include a catalytic converter and automatic transmission
as some of the more expensive possibilities.
Leaf Battery replacement
HTML http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/leaf-battery.png
Refurbished 23kWh battery for $5500 :(
EV: The big “potential” cost is the battery replacement. At
100,000 miles, your battery may have lost up to 20% of its
range, though studies from the American Chemical society predict
well managed batteries may last up to twenty years. Unlike the
timing belt, you are not running the risk of damaging your
vehicle by continuing to drive, so many may continue to drive
without this expense. The initial cost in 2012 was around
$500-$600/kWh. Studies show this cost could drop to
$150-$250/kWh in the next 5-8 years which happens to be the
warranty period for most EV battery systems. Already 2013 is
showing some packs at 400/kWh.
Some batteries are designed in such a manner as to replace
modules opposed to the entire pack which will generally be the
better OEM solution. This has allowed some 24kWh OEM refurbished
packs to be offered for $5500 or $240/kWh with a core charge.
Parity has arrived.
Ease of installation also matters. GM and Nissan are able to
offer low labor rates due to their easy access. You should be
aware of the installation labor cost before making a purchase.
This price is based on the design, not the future cost of the
battery.
It is still too early to realize the aftermarket pricing but
this is sure to follow. With a large number of early adopters
also investing in solar, it is likely that they may keep their
old battery as a future solar home battery back up if core
values are too small.
Also for the EV with a renewed battery solution, you effectively
have hit the reset button for the next 100,000. Not the case for
the ICE. The mechanical components of the ICE continue to wear
and are now subject to the same continual maintenance as well as
at least one major service call on the way to 200,000 miles.
But this is not the largest looming cost. At this point, we are
10-15 years into rising gas and lowering battery cost . By this
time, rising gas and lowering battery costs, have almost
certainly made the ICE a relic on the road to 200,000 miles.
Now you might think that I am implying that the EV is
unbreakable.
HTML http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_2932.gif
This
obviously with anything mechanical is not the case. I am first
and foremost pointing out the huge imbalance in regular
maintenance. I made mention of possible failures with the ICE
like the automatic transmission. I challenge you once again to
review your own ICE service file to better understand the extra
cost you may have been trying to forget. ;)
You will have similar possibilities with the EV with anything in
the electrical system from inverters to rectifiers. One major
difference being that in most good EV warranties, the electrical
system is covered for the first 100,000 miles, which is the
emphasis of this piece.
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-051113192052.png<br
/> So if you are considering your first EV, make sure to ask for
a
specific breakdown of what is covered in their warranty. Though
nothing is maintenance free, I think you will find a huge
imbalance in favor of the EV.
HTML http://insideevs.com/ev-vs-ice-maintenance-the-first-100000-miles/
HTML http://insideevs.com/ev-vs-ice-maintenance-the-first-100000-miles/
RE,
You may claim the above is "just" maintenance and has NOTHING TO
DO with energy required to move the vehicle. Oh yes it DOES!
Maintenance USES ENERGY! A lot of it!. 400 trips to the gas
station are part of your ICE DUTIES, are they not? That uses
ENERGY, does it not?
And so on.
HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183515.bmp
HTML http://i.imgur.com/WZv0w.png
#Post#: 1945--------------------------------------------------
Re: Electric Vehicles
DIR By: AGelbert
Date: September 28, 2014, 9:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
EV vs. ICE - True cost of ownership
cmaso | August 26, 2013
Wanted to share this with those who are thinking about an MS.
My watts/mi for the first 3,000 mi has been ~295, that means I
can go ~3.4 mi/kW, and I pay $.11 per kW. A comp ICE vehicle
(V6) would get ~20 mpg combined city/hwy (current gas prices are
~$4.00)... do a little math and that's ~$12,250 per year for gas
compared to $585 per year for electricity. Not to put too fine a
point on it... for the first 125,000 miles it would cost me
~$85,000 for gas vs. ~4,000 for electricity. :o
I know it's not the right car for everyone, but I think we are
at the point where the market needs to stop calling this an
$80,000 car. When you buy a MS you are converting the majority
of the operating expense to a capitol expense. The result is a
higher upfront cost, but a much lower monthly recurring fee to
operate it...
HTML http://www.teslamotors.com/en_AU/forum/forums/ev-vs-ice-true-cost-ownership
HTML http://www.teslamotors.com/en_AU/forum/forums/ev-vs-ice-true-cost-ownership
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