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       #Post#: 8617--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unus
       ual Experiences
       By: AGelbert Date: December 16, 2017, 9:31 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [center][img
       width=640]
  HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-161217204110.jpeg[/img][/center]
       [move][font=courier]My Pine Grove home is 17 years old and still
       going strong! [img
       width=100]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-260116191529.png[/img]<br
       />[/font][/move]
       #Post#: 8689--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unus
       ual Experiences
       By: AGelbert Date: December 26, 2017, 7:19 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [center]Not Your Grandfather's Trailer [img
       width=60]
  HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-250817121649.png[/img]<br
       />[/center]
       [center]
  HTML https://youtu.be/exYDDNKvKRc[/center]
       Not Your Grandfather's Trailer
       Ray Doughty
       Published on Jan 22, 2016
       #Post#: 8690--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unus
       ual Experiences
       By: AGelbert Date: December 26, 2017, 9:11 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Agelbert NOTE: The video is a bit dated but the info is still
       valuable. Learn why manufactured homes are routinely a lot
       tighter than stick built homes. 8)
       [center]How It's Made Explores the Merits of a Factory-built
       home  [/center]
       [center]
  HTML https://youtu.be/dI9WBDNQkYw[/center]
       FleetwoodHomes Inc
       Published on Jan 2, 2013
  HTML http://fleetwoodhomes.com
       Manufactured Homes
       #Post#: 8691--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unus
       ual Experiences
       By: AGelbert Date: December 27, 2017, 2:02 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [center][img
       width=640]
  HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-271217135300.png[/img][/center]
       [center][img
       width=640]
  HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-271217135637.png[/img][/center]
       #Post#: 8693--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unus
       ual Experiences
       By: AGelbert Date: December 27, 2017, 4:28 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=David B. link=topic=10436.msg143355#msg143355
       date=1514349580]
       The first video you posted would be what we call a manufactured
       home up here and they are more and more popular. They usually
       come as modules of any number necessary in all shapes and sizes.
       I've built frost walls for 2 of them. My part ended there. The
       second one is what I think of when I think trailer home or
       double wide. That one as shown was quite poor thermally but it
       was an old video and probably built for somewhere warm. One
       company I like is this one :
  HTML http://www.canadabuilds.ca
  HTML http://www.canadabuilds.ca
       They are pretty cutting edge but pricey. I'll stop this here
       since LD probably cares not at all about our various views of
       home construction since this thread was originally about
       trucking.
       Cheers, David B
       [/quote]
       David,
       The only type of home I am are intested in discussing is a
       singlewide manufactured home. I agree that Canadabuilds makes a
       good home, but LD does not need that type of super insulation or
       high price per square foot. The whole idea of going for a
       manufactured home is to avoid the inflated, and totally
       unjustified, stick built price per square foot. The videos I
       posted both show advantages that stick built homes will never
       have.
       My home is a Pine Grove. They make very good, but not pricy,
       manufactured homes. Here are the details on the construction
       standards and materials on a 3 bedroom 2 bath that they now
       make. These same standards are part of my 17 year old home. That
       said, they don't currently market to South Carolina (Pine Grove
       makes homes with strong roof load design for snow so LD probably
       would not want that home anyway). I present this home as an
       example of real world excellent quality equal to or greater than
       a stick built, but with a much lower price per square foot. I
       suggest you adjust your thinking and stop generalizing about
       manufactured home quality and price.
       Pine Grove PA 17963
       Phone: (570) 345-8600
       Web: www.pinegrovehomes.com
  HTML http://www.pinegrovehomes.com
       3 Bedroom 2 bath singlewide made by Pine Grove: G16-612 - 16' X
       76' - 1,165 SQ. FT.
  HTML http://www.pinegrovehomes.com/vault-single-section
  HTML http://www.pinegrovehomes.com/vault-single-section
       Pine Grove Homes is located in Pine Grove, Schuylkill County,
       Pennsylvania. Our homes are marketed throughout the northeast
       and mid-Atlantic regions of the United States.
       For info on Pine Grove dealers near you and availability and
       price of the Pine Grove G16-612, fill in this contact info:
  HTML http://www.pinegrovehomes.com/contact/
  HTML http://www.pinegrovehomes.com/contact/
       Standard Features for Pine Grove Homes
       Interior
       &#10625;
       Sheers
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       Finish
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       Pad
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       Cabinetry
       &#10625;
       Co.
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       Utilities
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       Connection
       &#10625;
       Exterior Drain
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       Kitchen
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       Optional)
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       Codes
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       Bath
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       Optional)
       &#10625;
       Light
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       Exterior
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       No Storm
       &#10625;
       Storm
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       Gable End
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       [b]Construction
       &#10625;
       On-Center
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       Wide)
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       &#10625;
       [/b]
       Note: Any home receiving a site-built garage (or other
       structure) MUST meet all egress requirements for exterior doors.
       A third exit door may need to be installed in the home in order
       for it to be in full compliance. See below for more details.
       All representations and descriptions of the Pine Grove product
       are believed to be accurate at the time of publication. Due to
       continual product improvement and changes in design, we cannot
       guarantee exact duplication of every product shown herein. Model
       availability and specifications may change without notice. Your
       Retailer, an independent contractor who is not an agent of
       Pleasant Valley Homes, is the party responsible for your
       purchase contract and any additions, deletions, alterations, or
       attachments made to or in your home.
       Garage Notice:
       Pine Grove manufactured homes are built to the standards as
       established by the manufactured housing HUD building code.
       Please note that any home that will have a site-built garage
       added to it will need to have three exterior doors in order to
       meet egress requirements as established by HUD (one which
       provides access to the garage and two which provide immediate
       access to the outside of the home). There are rules in place
       governing where these doors can be located within the homes and
       all designs will be subject to final approval from the
       engineering department to ensure that the home will be in full
       compliance following the addition of the site-built garage.
       General:
       All representations and descriptions of the Pine Grove Product
       are believed to be accurate at the time of publication. Due to
       continual product improvement and changes in design, we cannot
       guarantee exact duplication of every product shown herein. Model
       availability and specifications may change without notice. Your
       Retailer, an independent contractor, who is not an agent of Pine
       Grove Homes, is the party responsible for your purchase contract
       and any additions, deletions, alterations or attachments made to
       or in your home.
  HTML http://www.pinegrovehomes.com/standard-features/
  HTML http://www.pinegrovehomes.com/standard-features/
       David, what you think of in any house is what you should think
       of in a manufactured home. There is no valid assumption about
       the level of insulation or lack of that merits your
       generalizations about double wides and so on. The following
       infographics are what you should be referencing when you think
       of manufactured homes in the USA. Please stop generalizing.
       [center]Manufactured Homes Quick Facts 1 of 2[/center]
       [center][img
       width=640]
  HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-271217135300.png[/img][/center]
       [center]Manufactured Homes Quick Facts 2 of 2[/center]
       [center][img
       width=640]
  HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-271217135637.png[/img][/center]
       #Post#: 8698--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unus
       ual Experiences
       By: AGelbert Date: December 28, 2017, 12:44 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=luciddreams link=topic=10436.msg143448#msg143448
       date=1514470320]
       I certainly won't complain about any of the well thought out
       advice and information that I get here on the Diner.  I value
       all of the experience, insight, knowledge, and expertise that I
       get here, and that is why I always come here with big decisions.
       I respect everyone's opinion even when I do not agree (contrary
       to RE's assertion).
       On matter of what I'm going to do about a home...well...I'm
       currently up in the air with it.  What I do know is that I'm
       going to be mortgaging something.  I'm going to do that because
       that will result in a lot more for less to the same amount of
       money that I'd pay to live in an apartment here.  A decent
       apartment in my area will run about $900 a month in rent, and
       that would be the cheapest option that we'd care to live in.
       While I'm aware that there are benefits to apartment living,
       such as low utilities bills and no responsibility on upkeep for
       appliances, plumbing, electrical, etc etc..., typically only one
       year lease agreements, and no mortgage.  I'm also aware, having
       lived in apartments for most of my life, that it also comes with
       shitty neighbors who make lots of noise and complain about ****,
       no land for gardening, no storage buildings for tools and such,
       next to no privacy outside of the dwelling, and a lot of time
       maintenance staff and admin who give less then two shits about
       anything other then getting the rent on time.  Even still, I'd
       be willing to live in an apartment...my wife however is not.
       That takes apartment living off of the table for me.  Besides,
       I'd rather not rent because you pay more to rent then you do to
       mortgage.
       The only question left for me is what am I going to mortgage?
       Currently I'm entertaining all options.  My bank told me I need
       a 680 for my credit score.  It's currently 650 and slowly
       rising.  Very slowly.  Those fuckers are a bunch of bastards and
       the credit score game is a loosing one if you are a consumer.
       The rules make no sense unless you are a coked up banker.  I
       really don't care to play, but I have little choice in the
       matter.
       I'm game for the manufactured home if I can get one that's not a
       piece of ****.  Apparently that can be difficult but it's
       possible as Agelbert has demonstrated.  Currently I'm looking
       into stick built houses for sale as well as manufactured home
       options.  The main benefit for me, with a manufactured home, is
       that I can have one plopped down on my mom's 11 acres.  That is
       the most appealing option for me as finding a house is going to
       result in less land in a place that will likely not be as ideal.
       120k is the max I'm willing to finance because it's the max I
       can afford on my current salary.  It's also the max I could
       afford to hustle to pay given I return to the gig economy.
       Which is likely at some point.
       Another important tidbit on this entire discussion ties the
       thread together.  I went trucking to get us our own home.  I
       needed the W-2 to mortgage something.  Once I acquire said
       mortgage I may well decide that working for the man is now a
       waste of my time and return back to Ancient Earth Landscaping,
       bamboo, permaculture, and herbal medication  ;D
       Truckin' is likely a temporary strategy for me...although I am
       paying 4% into a 401k so...I'm keeping all of my options open.
       [/quote]
       Good thinking.   [img width=25
       height=30]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png[/img]<br
       />Let me rephrase the only question left for you: How can you ge
       t
       the most bang for your decent and durable home buck?
       ???
  HTML http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_1730.gif
       
       As you have realized, the credit score thing is a perverse game
       that lenders play. It is a perverse game because they PRETEND
       that all they care about is your ability to pay. That is a
       half-truth at best and normally a total lie. All they REALLY
       care about is whether they can make money off your collateral if
       they are in a position to foreclose on said collateral.
       As I mentioned in the latest PM, lenders are risk averse. If
       they see the risk is low, they then go to the next step of fun
       and games. That is the credit rating fun and games they use to
       do TWO things:
       1) Tell you how much principal they will lend you.
       2) Tell you what interest rate you must pay according to your
       "credit" score.
       WHY do I say that the above are pervese, fact free fun and
       games? Because they have access to capital for lending that DOES
       NOT EXIST in the real world. It is invented out of whole cloth.
       Lenders are the parasites of the fractional reserve, ex nihilo
       money creation world. What they are "risking" is ALWAYS MUCH
       LESS than the assessed value of the property they are lending
       you money (less than 50% all the way to about 10%) for. But
       enough of my rant.  ;D
       I learned there is a bit of a buyers market near you down in
       Lugoff for repossessed stick built homes. I don't know a thing
       about Lugoff, SC, but you probably do. There are probably some
       excellent deals down there, if you are inclined to live there.
       8)
       Back to the lenders: P.I.T.I. (Principal Interest Taxes
       Insurance) for your home monthly payment is the bottom line
       number that you want to limit to 25% of monthly income, as well
       as limiting the total home principal to 2.5 times your annual
       income.
       Every day that you are alive on planet Earth is another day
       that, although some here argue otherwise  ;), you ARE paying
       P.I.T.I., whether you rent or "own". The idea, as you have
       realized, is to make do and be able to save a reasonable amount
       each month.
       I'm working on the lender picture. I'll get back to you. You are
       doing fine. Rome was not built in a day.
       #Post#: 8701--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unus
       ual Experiences
       By: AGelbert Date: December 28, 2017, 4:07 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Agelbert NOTE: This home is 17 years old. However, they added a
       new roof in 2014. That means that they did not have serious mold
       or other problems with the structure at that time, or they would
       have just tried to replace it or sell it then. Provided the roof
       was done properly (metal is better than asphalt shingle, but
       either one done properly should last at least 20 years), this
       home on a half acre is a great deal.  :icon_sunny:
       If the roof was not done properly, this home is a problem home.
       I would have an inspector look over this home from top to bottom
       with a fine tooth comb. It's worth the money the inspector will
       charge. Also, the realtor states that this is a "motivated"
       seller. This can mean the owner wants to move soon due to job
       issues OR the home is rapidly deteriorating. There can be other
       reasons for a person being "motivated" (realtor parlance for
       "they'll consider a lower offer"), but I think the ones I
       mentioned are generally applicable to manufactured home owners.
       I looked at it in Google Earth and it does not appear to be
       manufactured home. Yet, the picture in the Trulia web site looks
       like that of a manufactured home (It appears to have skirting).
       You be the judge.  8)
       All that said, if you don't mind the sound of a train going by
       routinely ;D, this looks like a nice family home.
       2386 Green Hill Rd
       Lugoff, SC 29078   3 beds
       •2 baths
       •1,440 sqft
       •0.50 acres lot size
       •Single-Family Home
       
       For Sale  $46,900   Est. Mortgage $280/mo
       Home Details
       Single-Family Home
       3 Beds
       2 Baths
       Built in 2000
       23 days on Trulia
       0.50 acres lot size
       1,440 sqft
       $33/sqft
       182 views
       Description
       Investor alert! 3bd/2ba home in Lugoff. New roof 2014. Walk in
       closet in all bedrooms. Kitchen appliances to remain. Great
       Investment. Motivated Seller.  ;)
       
  HTML https://www.trulia.com/property/5033377792-2386-Green-Hill-Rd-Lugoff-SC-29078
  HTML https://www.trulia.com/property/5033377792-2386-Green-Hill-Rd-Lugoff-SC-29078
       #Post#: 8702--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unus
       ual Experiences
       By: AGelbert Date: December 28, 2017, 4:13 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Lugoff versus Spartanburg, SC living costs are about the same:
       Agelbert NOTE: It appears that the Lugoff buyers market is a
       recent phenomenon because the stats. show Lugoff as slightly
       more costly for housing than Spartanburg (though they are both
       SUPER affordable [img width=60
       height=40]
  HTML http://us.cdn2.123rf.com/168nwm/lenm/lenm1201/lenm120100200/12107060-illustration-of-a-smiley-giving-a-thumbs-up.jpg[/img]<br
       />: compared to the USA as a whole).
       Spartanburg, SC
       States
       Overall
       84
       Grocery
       99.9
       Health
       86                    100
       Housing
       60
       Utilities
       103
       Transportation                        
       87
       Miscellaneous                       
       100
  HTML http://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/lugoff_sc/spartanburg_sc/costofliving
       #Post#: 8824--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unus
       ual Experiences
       By: AGelbert Date: January 14, 2018, 3:49 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [center]If you think it all ends here, you will consider risking
       your life to save a stranger an irrational act,
       period.
  HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/301.gif
       [/center]
       I was faced, one day at a beach family outing when I was 34 with
       2 small children, with a life or death situation. My dentist
       brother in law, an expert swimmer and scuba diver, was drowning
       in a rip current and 14 ft high wave breakers.
       [center][img
       width=990]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-290714210517.png[/img][/center]
       It was afternoon and my sister had scolded her hubby because he
       was reading a book on dental practice instead of "playing with
       his children like my brothers do". John wasn't feeling too great
       that day but he responded to the henpecking by going in. I had
       noticed that the tide was going out and some rather large
       "lumps" on the water surface indicating rapid current (about 8
       inches high in otherwise calm water in a tide pool) were visible
       and I said, "It looks kind of rough out there".
       He said he could handle it and it would be okay. My sister just
       looked at me crossly. John went in and was playing with some
       kind of raft with his kids that would just reach the surf at the
       edge of the opening in the tide pool lagoon and swing back in.
       I knew that dynamic was going to change and the outgoing tide
       would soon try to suck anyone near the reef opening at the edge
       of the tide pool lagoon (about 50 yards from shore) into the
       surf and rip tide. I told my wife to gather up the kids and keep
       them out of the water. I sat on the beach while John began to
       drown.
       My 36 year old brother and Vietnam vet, Larry, who had supported
       John in this dangerous game when I appeared concerned, now froze
       on the shore with a worried look on his face. Somebody grabbed
       the small raft his 8 year old son was on and managed to get it
       to shore (it was some good samaritan with red hair in the water
       that we never did talk to later).
       Larry, over his momentary paralysis and spurned to action, ran
       up to me and said we had to get John. He had a big of piece of
       driftwood for floatation. He rushed to the shore and waited for
       me as the seconds ticked by and John was floundering, unable to
       swim to shore.
       I stood there a second and thought to myself, "You know, you are
       going to die out there." I answered my own thought , "If I stay
       here, I'll never be able to live with myself so God will have to
       decide if I make it through this or not". The fear was momentary
       and rational. I dispensed with it with a practice I had of
       sticking to my principles come hell or high water. It wasn't
       heroics, it was habit. And BABY, this was HIGH WATER!
       My wife later said we looked like children in the waves because
       they were so big. So Larry and I hyperventilated for about 20
       seconds to get some extra oxygen in our lungs and dove in. My
       bro lost the driftwood in the turbulent water (just as well - it
       could have bopped us on the head and killed us). We got to John
       lickity split. Getting to him was like being on a river in the
       right direction.
       Of course when we got to him, we had to turn around and try to
       hold his head above water. The moment we reached him and I said,
       "We've got you, John", he gave up. His head went under and I was
       under too and watched bubbles coming out of his mouth and his
       body totally relaxed. We pulled him up only to be slammed by the
       most god-awful monstrous wave power I have ever experienced. My
       femur bones were being bent by the force of the turbulence! My
       fear returned with some terror thrown in. We had to fight to get
       back up to the surface only to be slammed back down by a new
       breaker. All the while we were trying to swim to shore and
       getting weaker. After one particularly powerful wave, I looked
       at my brother and yelled, "We're going to DIE out here!". Larry
       yelled, "A man has to think of himself!".
       Our only chance to make it to shore was to let John go. We did.
       I glimpsed him floating away underwater. That was the most heart
       tearing, sad and anguished moment of my life all wrapped up into
       one desperate attempt to survive with my principles intact.
       We began swimming to shore with the waves still sending us down
       a couple of seconds after surfacing. The salt water mixing with
       my breathing felt like fire burning my throat trachea. The
       people on shore didn't get closer. I lost sight of Larry. I was
       yelling "Praise the Lord" even as I ran out of energy in those
       brief moments on the surface.
       Larry, much stronger than me and an agnostic, was concentrating
       on getting back to shore by cursing the ocean, the waves , the
       current and whatever else he could think of to keep himself "mad
       enough" to keep fighting for his life (I learned this from him
       later as I could not hear him in the tumult at the time).
       About 15 minutes into this ordeal, I lost all my energy. I
       couldn't speak and I couldn't swim. I would send the commands to
       my arms and legs and they just WOULD NOT MOVE! I was in very
       good shape at that time of my life and had no muscle cramps or
       anything like that. I sank into the depths.
       I made myself a promise that, even though I was sure to drown, I
       would absolutely refuse to breathe until my autonomic response
       kicked in after losing consciousness; I wasn't going to DO that
       burning throat thing any longer (later on my doctor said that
       saved my life but I'm not so sure). I began "breathing" by
       pushing the air in my mouth into my lungs and back. I thought of
       my wife and kids and asked God to take care of them.
       I was totally convinced I was a goner. For some reason, I
       stopped feeling that urgency to breathe. Perhaps it was
       something like the nitrogen narcosis that divers get but that
       only happens at depth with scuba gear. I think the Guy upstairs
       gave me a break here (You know, that "sky God" so many people
       these days don't believe in).
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191258.bmp<br
       />
       I became quite relaxed, still unable to move and my surroundings
       got darker. I figure I was about 20 feet down when I felt some
       rocky bottom passing under my right toe. The force of the waves
       was slight here but my movement with the current was plainly
       felt. This woke me from my torpor.
       I concentrated on my foot and tried with all my might to flex my
       foot and anchor my toe on the reef surface below. It worked and
       I cut my toe. This woke me up more. I still, believe it or not,
       did not need to breathe. I waited for the current to shift
       direction and slid along the bottom with the top of my right
       foot. When the current flipped again, I would anchor my toe on
       the reef. I did this 5 or six times. The only part of me that I
       tried to move was my right foot and toe. I still did not have
       the strength or muscle coordination to swim. It was getting
       shallower (warmer water) and my surroundings lighter.
       All of a sudden the water got murkier and the bottom hard to
       hold because it was sandy instead of rocky and, like a submarine
       surfacing, my head popped out of the water.
       Now a normal person takes a deep breath here, right? Not me. I
       was in terror of losing my grip on the bottom (it was sandy with
       no toe holds) so I plunged back under to "hold position" until
       the current shifted. I had glimpsed my sister yards away and I
       realized I was on the shore so I weakly and carefully stood up,
       breathed in deep and vomited my guts out.
       I raised my head and stared into my sister's eyes. She looked at
       me and said, "You tried". John died that day. I ended up fishing
       Larry out as he was cursing his way in (We lay him on the beach
       and he was okay after about 20 minutes) and keeping John's
       teenage kid (he had two of his kids there that day) from
       drowning by trying to fish his father's body out.
       We got the body as it managed to float a ways away from the rip
       tide and bump up against the far end of the tidal pool reef. We
       did CPR to no avail; he had a pulse from my pushing on his
       sternum while my sister (a registered nurse) cleared the air
       passage and breathed into his lungs but we gave up when the
       ambulance got there about 20 minutes later; he was a solid blue
       color (John was very fair and redheaded). Not a good day.
       The point of this experience I am relating is that we need to
       get our priorities straight in this country. WTF are we willing
       to die for? What are our principles? I know what mine are, who
       my boss is, and where I'm going when I leave this valley of
       tears. That guides me in my decision making.
       As a pilot I learned that you HAVE TO think about trouble all
       the time, plan what you will do when or if it comes and PRACTICE
       it in your brain. Then relax and go on about your life.
       Otherwise you will learn by hard experience why a coward dies a
       thousand deaths.
       Be true to your principles and you will sleep better at night
       and be an asset to humanity and God.
       My rant is for anyone here that hasn't thought this through. I'm
       in the moral imperative faith based camp.
       More Background:
       I had events occur in my life that kept me alive miraculously
       when I should have gotten killed. I did not pray to avoid
       getting smacked by a car that ran a red light without lights on
       at night while my brother Larry was saying "It's not going to
       get any greener" to me from the back seat of the car while I sat
       there like a bump on a log for NO REASON WHATSOEVER!
       I didn't spend 10 to 15 minutes underwater refusing to breathe
       and come out of it because I'm superman; it just happened and I
       wrote about it in detail here some time ago. Sure, I was
       praising the Lord and thanking Him for "rescuing" me while I was
       drowning trying to fish my brother in law dentist (who drowned)
       from the surf but it was my foot moving me along the bottom for
       those 10 to 15 minutes or so that got me to the beach because I
       could barely move my arms and had to concentrate just to dig one
       toe into the rocky bottom. God made me work for that one!
       While totaling a car, the seat belt caused my rib cage to rotate
       approximately 10 degrees or so. I fully expected to die and had
       no desire whatsoever to stick around as I lay in a field gasping
       for air.
       I did not pray or ask to be miraculously healed but
       nevertheless, AFTER the doctor at the ER had decided to do an
       exploratory on me to see how damaged I was inside, everything
       just POPPED into place X-ray room just before the body
       cavity/chest X-ray prior to the operation. The doctor cancelled
       the operation after seeing the x-ray. Apparently nothing was
       broken. You studied medicine (this comment was originally made
       to a doctor). How many times have you heard of rib cage rotation
       along the sternum that just pops back into position? How about
       the spleen? In violent car crashes it is almost always ruptured.
       I lost consciousness gasping for air at the hospital with
       everything going round and round. When I woke up I was still
       gasping and being rolled into x-ray when all kinds of bubbling
       noises came from my chest.
       I addressed God in my mind and said, WHAT ARE YOU DOING!!?
       Something or someone said, also in my mind, I"M FIXING YOU. My
       reaction was of chagrin. I was convinced I was DONE here and now
       I had to live in this HELL HOLE some more.
       Now you can call that a faith based miraculous healing if you
       want but if you do I will say that you are fooling yourself. The
       "power" of your mind in Faith isn't going to have you or anybody
       else walking on water anytime soon. All this stuff and nonsense
       about each one of us being a little god and able to do miracles
       just by tuning in to some zen power or mind focus is simply
       magical thinking. As to JC's quote about moving mountains,
       mustard seed and Faith, He was talking about rocket fuel for
       evangelizing (fishing humans), not habitually violating the laws
       of physics.
       My belief in Christ is EVIDENCE based. RE thinks I fancy myself
       "privileged" to have these experiences. I consider myself
       incredibly stubborn; so much so that God decided that I am so
       dense that He had to show me some evidence before I would
       believe. He doesn't do that to most people because most people
       aren't that dense, period.
       And no, I'm not going to detail all the weird and wonderful
       stuff I have witnessed to you because some reader here might
       think I'm inventing it just to prove some metaphysical bullshit
       I believe in. Sorry, I'm about as hard nosed about cause and
       effect as any other scientist out there.
       I once put a guy in jail because I refused to back down on my
       court testimony after witnessing a car he lost control of drive
       over and kill a street vendor. Despite receiving death threats,
       I said, fu ck it, it's the right thing to do so I'M GOING TO DO
       IT.
  HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/301.gif
       Everything I witnessed about God doing His thing here and there
       was rigorously questioned and fact checked moment by moment by
       me. I was NOT looking for anything but an excuse to NOT believe
       there is a supreme being that intercedes in the lives of people
       on this planet in a personal manner.
       But the observed events and facts said otherwise. Sure, I have
       Faith NOW, but I didn't do anything to earn it. It really IS, as
       the bible says, a gift.
       P.S. Larry, my brother who's idea it was to go to that beach
       that day in the first place, AND who had the "bright" idea of
       running the current, which eventually caused the drowing death
       of John Adair, my brother-in-law, has methodically and self
       servingly lied about his role in the above tragedy. Larry is a
       serial liar, an adulterer and a crook. If you have been told a
       different version of any of the above events by him, where he
       coincidentally appears to be the big hero and I appear as the
       wimp, you are being lied to. Larry was the chief architect of
       the theft of my inheritance after our mother, then our father,
       died. He and all my siblings who joined with him in a conspiracy
       to steal my inheritance got away with it temporarily.
       [center][img
       width=640]
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       #Post#: 8830--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unus
       ual Experiences
       By: AGelbert Date: January 15, 2018, 1:28 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Surly1 link=topic=559.msg144524#msg144524
       date=1516017453]
       [quote=AG]My rant is for anyone here that hasn't thought this
       through. I'm in the moral imperative faith based camp. [/quote]
       Gee, ya think?
       Great stories.  [img width=25
       height=30]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-080515182559.png[/img]
       It's a good day to recall the words of MLK, Jr.:
       [center][img
       width=600]
  HTML http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-the-time-is-always-right-to-do-what-is-right-martin-luther-king-15-89-98.jpg[/img][/center]
       [/quote]
       [center]
       [img width=80]
  HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/47b20s0.gif[/img]<br
       />[/center]
       [quote][font=times new roman][color=navy]“We as a nation must
       undergo a radical revolution of values… when machines and
       computers, profit motives and property rights, are considered
       more important than people, the giant triplets of racism,
       materialism and militarism are incapable of being conquered.” --
       Martin Luther King, Jr. April 4, 1967[/font][/color][/quote]
       Agelbert confession: My goal in life is to be as "maladjusted"
       as Martin Luther King Jr. was. I admit that I am still a work in
       VERY slow progress, but I am not confused by Mammon worshipping
       cults about what is really important in life and what is damning
       to life.
       [center][font=times new roman]"Maladjusted" Martin Luther King
       Jr.[/font][/center]
       [center]
  HTML https://youtu.be/zXEIYpnlxbw[/center]
       [quote][font=times new roman]Luke 12:15 And he said unto them,
       Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life
       consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he
       possesseth.
  HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/301.gif[/font]
       [font=times new roman]Luke 12:30-34
       30 For all these things do the nations of the world seek after:
       and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.
       31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things
       shall be added unto you.
       32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure
       to give you the kingdom.
       33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags
       which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not,
       where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.[/font]
       [font=times new roman]34 For where your treasure is, there will
       your heart be also.[/font][/quote]
       *****************************************************
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