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       #Post#: 649--------------------------------------------------
       Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unusual 
       Experiences
       By: AGelbert Date: January 2, 2014, 6:39 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [center]
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       Agelbert's
       Aerobatic Adventure -[I] In A NON-Aerobatic Aircraft[/I] :o  :P
       
  HTML http://yoursmiles.org/psmile/pilot/p0503.gif[/center]
       Once upon a time, I was young and a newly licensed Private
       Pilot. I had racked up about 53 hours of flying time, passed my
       4 hour written test and my one hour flight test so I figured I
       had most of this flying stuff all figured out. I was now
       starting my commercail pilot training which required a total of
       160 hours. A lot of this time was solo flying practicing
       advanced maneuvers such as chandelles, lazy eights, pivotal
       altitude hold while circling a ground reference point, several
       kinds of stalls, engine out procedures, emergency landing
       procedures and some extended cross country flights.
       But most of that was in the future. I had already flown my
       mother as my mandatory first passenger now that I was a bona
       fide licensed pilot and could legally carry passengers (without
       charging for it, of course).
       [center][img width=640
       height=380]
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       [center]I modified the last part of the tail number on the
       cherokee 140 above. It's not the one I flew but is identical in
       appearance and paint job. [/center]
       This bright sunny day I boarded Zero Nine Whisky (N--09W tail
       number) Cherokee 140 trainer aircraft to accumulate some flying
       time towards my minimum required for a commercial pilot license.
       Zero Nine Whiskey was my favorite of the aircraft. It had a
       pretty paint job and was the plane I had soloed in. It was an
       old friend to me by now. I didn't have any particular plan
       except to go out over the everglades practice area and repeat
       some of the maneuvers I already knew.
       Of course, being young, curious, over confident and foolish, I
       wanted to expand my knowledge of how the aircraft responded in
       somewhat, shall we say, higher pitch attitudes than the every
       day dull training fare.
       If you have ever heard the expression, "pushing the envelope",
       let me tell you that it is originally and aviatior's expression
       stolen from us by you ground pounders to make your dull lives
       seem more exciting!
       Yes, dear readers, Agelbert was fixin' to push the envelope.
       The flight "envelope" is the airspeed range and pitch attitude
       (angle above or below the horizon) as well as bank angle range
       of the wings that the aircraft is designed to fly at. If you
       leave the envelope when you are in the air, you are entering the
       danger zone. WHY? Because the aircraft can suffer catastrophic
       structural damage, engine, failure or a combination thereof. If
       this happpens near the ground, you are done. If it happens 4 to
       5 thousand feet up, you MIGHT be able to recover and live
       through it. You have a little more time but your survival
       usually depends more on luck than skill.
       Recently licensed Private Pilots are not too long on skill...
       I taxied out, took off and flew northwest about 10 miles to the
       practice area. This area over the Florida Everglades was (in
       1966) in the middle of nowhere. There were a few roads near some
       farms that had boundaries by the glades but otherwise it was all
       swamp and you were alligator food if you went down there.
       [center][img
       width=640]
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       [center]Cherokee in cruise flight at about 115 mph over Ohio,
       not the Everglades. [/center]
       On the plus side for a designated practice area, it was flat,
       far away from people or cows (our flight school had been told to
       NOT allow the student pilots to practice low approaches to
       emergency landings near cows because it caused abortions), and
       arrival and departure aircraft traffic to Opa Locka or Miami
       International Airports. Besides, it was within radio range of
       several ATC towers so if you had an emergency, you could set
       121.5 on your radio and call for help before you made a forced
       landing even if you were at a low altitude.
       Out over the practice area at 2,000 feet, I practiced a few
       engine out procedures and checked the area for potential landing
       sites that I could reach with the power off. It didn't look all
       that great but I would pick a spot and pretend I had to put it
       down right there. At about 300 feet I would apply full power and
       climb away looking down at the spot to see what sort of a mess I
       would have made if I had actually landed there.
       I then decided to try something new. I knew I might have some
       "difficulties" so I climbed to 5,000 feet (the recommended
       altitude for stall and spin practice). I may write about an
       exciting and humorous adventure with spins someday but that was
       still in the future for me then. For this adventure, I must
       explain to you what a "stall" is before I explain my imaginative
       variation of it.
       An aircraft flies because a low pressure area forms over the
       upper surface of the wing in direct proportion to the velocity
       of said wing and the angle of the wing to the air movement
       (relative wind). The point is that the wings are sucked up and
       the aircraft flies.
       Straight and level flight (arrow) ----> produces enough lift to
       not go up or down. When you pull back on the control point the
       aircraft nose higher, you are increasing the pitch attitude. A
       Cherokee 140 normally flies at a pitch attitude of a few degrees
       (positive pitch).
       A stall has nothing to do with the engine. A stall is what
       happens when the low pressure area over the wing surface gets
       disturbed (burble point) by too high a pitch attitude and the
       wings no longer produce lift. The maneuver is performed by
       gradually increasing the pitch attitude with a certain
       designated power on or power off condition (or something in
       between) until the nose shakes a little and noses down as the
       wings hit the burble point.
       Stall recovery is performed by establishing a negative pitch
       (nose below normal glide pitch) to pick up flying speed while
       applying full power simultaneously. Panicky student pilots have
       a tendency to point the nose down steeply and upset their flight
       instructors. After some practice, students learn that the secret
       of stall recovery is just to put that nose down to a few degrees
       below glide pitch and, of course, keep the plane from banking
       with the rudder so you don't get into an inadvertent stall-spin.
       The most challenging stall recovery is a power on stall because
       the nose is pitched about 40 degrees up (much higher than for a
       power off stall) and the burble point stall break is snappy.
       It's also harder to keep the plane straight to avoit a spin
       entry due to one wing stalling before the other.
       Well, I knew all that. I had that down! Let us see, I said to
       myself, what happens when we REALLY pick up the nose with full
       power?
  HTML http://yoursmiles.org/psmile/pilot/p0502.gif
       I pushed the throttle all the way and pulled the nose as far
       back as I could about 60 degrees). The effect was a much more
       violent stall (imagine a bucking bronco) break and the plane
       trying to spin this way and that. But I recovered within a few
       hundred feet of altitude loss which was well within limits for a
       power on stall.
       I thought about that for a while. I wanted a 90 degree pitch up
       nose position (straight up!) but, even with full power, I
       couldn't get there before the plane stalled. Bummer.
       So, I applied full power again and lowered the nose to pick up
       maneuvering speed (129 mph designated aircraft speed where
       structural damage could not occur from control movements). ZOOM!
       At 129 mph I gradually lifted the nose all the way to 90
       degrees! Yippee! There I was, going straight up like a fighter
       pilot!
       [center][img width=640
       height=880]
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       I then waited for the stall break and the nose to pitch forward.
       And I waited. And I waited. The airspeed went down past 60,
       which was no flaps stalling speed, and kept going down. Fifty,
       forty, THIRTY (WTF!), TWENTY!!! (I pulled the power off and
       tried to nose the aircraft over - no response - I was going too
       slow to ahve ANY EFFECT on the fight controls - I was basically
       a rock tossed in the air at this point approaching the peak of a
       ballistic trajectory), TEN, ZERO!
       Now it gets really good. The cherokee 140 is a utility trainer
       aircraft. That means it is capable of withstanding 4.4  G forces
       plus and 2.2 G minus. Aerobatic aircraft can handle 6.6 both
       ways with out structural issues. I knew this. I knew I was not
       in a Citabria or Stearman that could do whip stalls and tail
       slides and hammer head stalls at air shows just for fun.
       Cherokees have a stabilator (instead of an elevator) on the tail
       that is quite easy to break. If that breaks, you are dead,
       period.
       You DO NOT want to stress the stabilator, EVER.
       I went weightless. My pilot briefcase began floating in the air
       next to me. The wind noise was picking up rapidly and the
       airspeed still read ZERO!
       [center][img width=640
       height=880]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-011213210610.png[/img][/center]
       Panic time! I decided to release the controls because ANYTHING I
       did would translate BACKWARDS because the aircraft was "flying"
       backwards. I did NOT want to bust that stabilator. I wanted to
       get that nose DOWN somehow. As a kid I had thown gliders in the
       air and watched them tail slide and whip stall to a nose down
       pitch and recover. I was counting on that but my confidence
       level was measurable in fractions of an inch at the moment.
       Hanging by my seatbelt, I experienced the most violent forward
       whip stall forward you can imagine. That is probably what save
       my life. Had the stabilator caused a BACKWARD whip stall, it
       would probably have broken off. Without the ability to control
       the pitch attitude, even with engine power, a small aircraft
       will nose hard into the ground destroying the airframe and
       killing the pilot.
       [center][img width=640
       height=880]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-011213215342.png[/img][/center]
       I watched the blue sky instantly change to brown everglades. It
       was weird. The nose did not just go from straight up to straight
       down; it went from straight up to a pendulum movement. I still
       hadn't touched the controls. The airspeed had, of course, been
       increasing all along but it didn't show because aircraft measure
       airspeed with a pitot tube that faces the relative wind. Planes
       don't generally fly backwards. LOL!
       The moment the plane whipped over to the glades facing pendulous
       rocking movement, the airspeed went from zero to ABOVE VNE
       (Never Exceed Velocity - about 160). The airspeed indicator was
       PEGGED!
       [center][img width=640
       height=480]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-011213224524.png[/img][/center]
       That was another fright. I realized the flip had occurred above
       maneuvering speed and was sweating the possibility I had lost my
       stabilator.
       I  reached for the controls and, ever so gradually, applied back
       pressure to get out of the dive without tearing the wings off.
       Also, if I pull back too hard and too quick, that was another
       chance to over stress the stabilator (if I still had one) that I
       didn't want to risk.
       It worked. I hadn't lost my stabilator! Gravity returned and I
       got the airspeed back to 115 mph normal cruise. I had lost about
       3,500 feet. I applied power.
       Nothing. [color=red][shadow=red,left]Engine failure.
       [/shadow]Argh.
       I turned on the electric fuel pump (this aircraft has a manual
       fuel pump but uses the electric fuel pump to aid starting and
       engine restart in the air) and set 121.5 emergency frequency on
       my radio and looked for a place to put Zero Nine Whiskey down.
       At 800 feet the best place looked like a dirt embankment in the
       Everglades. I began a final approach and had the mike in my hand
       to begin transmitting mayday when the engine sputtered on.
       Believe it or not, my greatest relief at the moment was not
       having to embarrass myself by radioing an emergency.
       Such is the foolish pride of the young.
       [center]
       [img width=640
       height=340]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-011213210345.png[/img][/center]
       I hooked the mike back on to the panel and changed to tower
       frequency, radioed that I was inbound about 15 miles northwest
       and brought her home (without turning the electric fuel pump off
       until I was safely on the runway).
       I taxied to the grass parking area at the fight school and shut
       own the aircraft.
       Then I noticed something that needed to be taken care of. The
       cowling above the panel was full of dirt! The whip stall had
       been so violent that every speck of dirt on the floor had been
       thrown up and then forward and down onto the cowling as I
       applied gradual back pressure to pull the aircraft out of the
       dive. The floor looked like someone had done a great vacuuming
       job on it. LOL!
       I called a line boy and said there was a lot of dirt on the
       cowling that should be cleaned up. He looked at it  and asked,
       How did that get there?". I said, "I don't know." and quickly
       walked into the office to sign out...".
       [I]NOTE: Zero Nine Whisky was NOT damaged. I flew over 50 hours
       in that aircraft subsequently along with hundreds of hours by
       other pilots and flight instructors.
       I pre-flighted VERY closely the aircraft a day later and, had I
       seen the least bit of evidence of stabilator stress, would have
       reported it.
       I know, I should have reported it anyway but I was foolishly and
       pridefully afraid to besmirch my pilot record because it would
       reduce my chances of getting hired by the airlines. [/I]
       All I can say is the Piper Cherokee 140 is an excellent trainer
       aircraft.
       So that is how a foolish young man happened to cheat death in
       1966.
       If you liked this true story by Agelbert, be nice and register.
       [center]
       [img width=100
       height=210]
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       />[/center]
       [center]Agelbert giving his first lecture on Renewable Energy.
       [img width=30
       height=40]
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       />[/center]
       Have a pleasant day.   ;D
       [url=
  HTML http://renewablerevolution.createaforum.com/index.php]Renewable<br
       />Revolution
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       #Post#: 704--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unus
       ual Experiences
       By: AGelbert Date: January 18, 2014, 5:56 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       MKing says about CH[sub]4[/sub] [quote]It is one of the more
       useful molecules out there in the long run, [/quote]
       Sure, from YOUR rather narrow definition of "useful" (It's a
       hydrocarbon!).
       But in the BIOSPHERE that we all depend on, THE most useful
       molecule in the hydrocarbon pantheon is this one:
       [quote]Ethylene: The Ripening Hormone[/quote]
  HTML http://postharvest.tfrec.wsu.edu/pages/PC2000F
  HTML http://postharvest.tfrec.wsu.edu/pages/PC2000F
       Ethylene causes fruit to ripen and plants to die on schedule so
       they can  be recycled into the biosphere. In short it is key to
       the life cycle of all earthlings. Now THAT is REALLY useful! So
       you see, I DO recognize that there is ONE hydrocarbon that we
       really need AS LONG AS WE DON'T BURN IT![img width=30
       height=40]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185047.png[/img]<br
       />
       [img width=320
       height=200]
  HTML https://gcps.desire2learn.com/d2l/lor/viewer/viewFile.d2lfile/15524/8485/642px-Ethylene-2D.png[/img]
       C[sub]2[/sub]H[sub]4[/sub] (Ethylene)
       [img width=320
       height=200]
  HTML http://media.materialsviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/bowl-of-fruit.jpg[/img]
       Some products produced by ethylene that fossil fuelers and other
       LIVING BEINGS NEED  [img width=30
       height=40]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185047.png[/img]<br
       />
       My favorite HYDROCARBON!  [img width=30
       height=30]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185701.png[/img]
       
       What!? You mean to tell me Agelbert, the quixotic crusader
       against fossil fuel folly in all its poisonous and biosphere
       trashing forms has some hydrocarbon love?
  HTML http://www.coh2.org/images/Smileys/huhsign.gif
       YEP! [img width=30
       height=40]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185047.png[/img]<br
       />
       Back when I was trying to get through pre-med in the daytime
       while I worked as a computer analyst in the FAA at night (I was
       promoted from air traffic control to Automation) I took Botany,
       one of many biology courses the curriculum required.
       Botany was a lot of fun. I learned how they keep grapes from
       having seeds in them (Gibberrelins) and all sorts of interesting
       facts about plant biochemistry. But the story of the orange
       grove fruit warehouses in Florida in the early 20th century was
       one I liked especially because it is a great example of the
       scientific method in action. Read on. 8)
       The vast orange groves in Florida around 1910 had giant
       warehouses where picked fruit would be stored while they reached
       the proper stage of ripeness before shipping them to markets.
       The oranges are picked nearly full size and still green. They
       are tough at that stage and not easily bruised by the picking
       process.
       [img width=640
       height=420]
  HTML http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_39Pf4v24ows/TIuQCb6hjSI/AAAAAAAAB1I/EKcSIomKmYk/s640/Grapefruits+web.jpg[/img]
       The crop is stored in heated warehouses to finish the ripening
       process. The oranges, as they ripen, obtain their pretty orange
       color. The fruit expands somewhat and becomes more fragile but,
       since they already have them packed in bags or crates ready for
       shipping, they get to markets pretty well unscathed.
       [img width=640
       height=420]
  HTML http://img.ehowcdn.com/article-new/ehow/images/a04/an/ru/way-store-oranges-800x800.jpg[/img]
       Well, around 1910, the orange growers were sold on
       electrification of their orange ripening warehouses. They had
       hitherto used kerosene heaters which sometimes caused a
       warehouse to burn down and they liked the idea of controlling
       the temperature within a few degrees to fine tune the ripening
       process. Boy, were they in for an unpleasant surprise!  :o
       They spent small fortunes in electrifying the warehouses with
       lights and elecric space heaters. The picking season came and
       they happily picked the crop and stored it in the new and
       improved hot shot electric heater warehouses. They waited for
       the oranges to ripen, fill out and turn orange in color. And
       waited. And waited. Those silly, stubborn oranges refused to
       ripen! They stayed hard and green.
  HTML http://www.coh2.org/images/Smileys/huhsign.gif
       ???
       A bright bulb among the growers, all of whom had ALWAYS believed
       (wrongly) that HEAT is what makes fruit ripen, stated that there
       must have been something besides heat in those old kerosene
       heaters that made the fruit ripen.
       They got a team of scientists to do some experiments with green
       oranges with and without kerosene heaters at various
       temperatures and the oranges exposed to the kerosene heaters DID
       ripen as they always had before irrespective of temperature.
       Next they identified all the products of combustion of the long
       chained hydrocarbon called kerosene.
       We all know when you burn (oxidize) a hydrocarbon, you get
       CO[sub]2[/sub] + H[sub]2[/sub]O. But that is ONLY if you have
       COMPLETE combustion. A kerosene heater, as many family tragedies
       can attest to, puts out lots of INCOMPLETE combustion products
       like CO (carbon monoxide) that will kill you quickly and
       quietly.
       But there is another product of incomplete combustion that
       burning kerosene puts out. It's called Ethylene.
       This tiny molecule is a miracle of plant biochemistry. The
       scientists determined that ethylene was making the oranges
       ripen! So the growers had to put the kerosene heaters back in.
       Well, they got electric lights out of the deal and plant science
       took a giant step forward so everything worked out for the best.
       
  HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/128fs318181.gif
       The obvious follow up question is, where does the ethylene, now
       defined as a plant ripening hormone, come from when the oranges
       ripen on the tree?  ???  From the orange as long as it is
       connected to the tree when it turns color. Henceforth, whether
       on the tree or off it, the orange itself keeps putting out
       ethylene until it rots in preparation for the orange seeds to
       grow.  Pretty neat, huh?  ;D
       This was a revolutionary development in botany in general and
       fruit growing in particular. The study of plant hormones grew
       explosively from that point and many mysteries were (and still
       are being) solved about how these miraculous photosynthetic life
       forms function.
       What is so amazing to me is that such a simple molecule can do
       so much. Have you ever put bananas on top of a bowl of fruit
       containing apples in the bottom? Sure, everyone has. Have you
       noticed how fast those bananas get overripe when they are on top
       of apples? YEP, ripe apples are one of the highest ethylene
       producers out there! :o Those bananas produce much less but when
       the added apple ethylene whacks them, here come the brown spots!
       :P
       [img width=640
       height=420]
  HTML http://www.wpromote.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/fruit-bowl.jpg[/img]
       [move]Unless you are going to eat the above bananas TODAY, this
       is a No No! The bananas will ripen too fast!   ???  Set them a
       few feet away and they will keep longer.  ;)[/move]
       So now you know that, if you have a well ventilated area and
       happen to have brought some green bananas from the store that
       you are worried about "going bad" before ripening or just
       refusing to turn yellow as sometimes happens, get a small
       hurricane kerosene lamp and put it in the vicinity of the
       bananas and I guarantee you they will ripen. You can impress
       your spouse with your botany smarts.  ;D
       [img width=640
       height=480]
  HTML http://www.iknowvegetables.com/images/vegetables/original/green-bananas.jpg[/img]
       [img width=640
       height=480]
  HTML http://www.in.all.biz/img/in/catalog/122099.jpeg[/img]
       [img width=640
       height=380]
  HTML http://www.carlagoldenwellness.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/bananastages.jpg[/img]
       [move]Behold, the humble ethylene molecule, my favorite
       hydrocaron.[/move]
       [img width=640
       height=380]
  HTML http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Ethylene-CRC-MW-3D-balls.png[/img]
       [img width=640
       height=380]
  HTML http://plantphys.inf
       o/plants_human/fruitripe.gif[/img]
       Ethylene (IUPAC name: ethene) is a hydrocarbon with the formula
       C2H4 or H2C=CH2. It is a colorless flammable gas with a faint
       "sweet and musky" odor when pure.[3] It is the simplest alkene
       (a hydrocarbon with carbon-carbon double bonds), and the
       simplest unsaturated hydrocarbon after acetylene (C2H2).
       Ethylene is widely used in chemical industry, and its worldwide
       production (over 109 million tonnes in 2006) exceeds that of any
       other organic compound.[4][5] Ethylene is also an important
       natural plant hormone, used in agriculture to force the ripening
       of fruits.[6]
  HTML http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene
  HTML http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene
       #Post#: 1621--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unus
       ual Experiences
       By: AGelbert Date: July 29, 2014, 8:12 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       If you think it all ends here, you will consider risking your
       life to save a stranger an irrational act, period.
  HTML http://www.coh2.org/images/Smileys/huhsign.gifhttp://www.pic4ever.com/images/bc3.gif<br
       />
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       I was faced, one day at a beach family outing when I was 34 with
       2 small children, with a life or death situation. My dentist
       brother in law, an expert swimmer and scuba diver, was drowning
       in a rip current and 14 ft high wave breakers.
       [img width=800
       height=340]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-290714210517.png[/img]
       It was afternoon and my sister had scolded her hubby because he
       was reading a book on dental practice instead of "playing with
       his children like my brothers do". John wasn't feeling too great
       that day but he responded to the henpecking by going in. I had
       noticed that the tide was going out and some rather large
       "lumps" on the water surface indicating rapid current (about 8
       inches high in otherwise calm water in a tide pool) were visible
       and I said, "It looks kind of rough out there".
       He said he could handle it and it would be okay. My sister just
       looked at me crossly. John went in and was playing with some
       kind of raft with his kids that would just reach the surf at the
       edge of the opening in the tide pool lagoon and swing back in.
       I knew that dynamic was going to change and the outgoing tide
       would soon try to suck anyone near the reef opening at the edge
       of the tide pool lagoon (about 50 yards from shore) into the
       surf and rip tide. I told my wife to gather up the kids and keep
       them out of the water. I sat on the beach while John began to
       drown.
       My 36 year old brother and Vietnam vet, who had supported John
       in this dangerous game when I appeared concerned, now froze on
       the shore with a worried look on his face. Somebody grabbed the
       small raft his 8 year old son was on and managed to get it to
       shore (it was some good samaritan with red hair in the water
       that we never did talk to later).
       My brother, over his momentary paralysis and spurned to action,
       ran up to me and said we had to get John. He had a big of piece
       of driftwood for floatation. He rushed to the shore and waited
       for me as the seconds ticked by and John was floundering, unable
       to swim to shore.
       I stood there a second and thought to myself, "You know, you are
       going to die out there." I answered my own thought , "If I stay
       here, I'll never be able to live with myself so God will have to
       decide if I make it through this or not". The fear was momentary
       and rational. I dispensed with it with a practice I had of
       sticking to my principles come hell or high water. It wasn't
       heroics, it was habit. And BABY, this was HIGH WATER!
       My wife later said we looked like children in the waves because
       they were so big. So my brother and I hyperventilated for about
       20 seconds to get some extra oxygen in our lungs and dove in. My
       bro lost the driftwood in the turbulent water (just as well - it
       could have bopped us on the head and killed us). We got to John
       lickity split. Getting to him was like being on a river in the
       right direction.
       Of course when we got to him, we had to turn around and try to
       hold his head above water. The moment we reached him and I said,
       "We've got you, John", he gave up. His head went under and I was
       under too and watched bubbles coming out of his mouth and his
       body totally relaxed. We pulled him up only to be slammed by the
       most god-awful monstrous wave power I have ever experienced. My
       femur bones were being bent by the force of the turbulence!
       My fear returned with some terror thrown in. We had to fight to
       get back up to the surface only to be slammed back down by a new
       breaker. All the while we were trying to swim to shore and
       getting weaker. After one particularly powerful wave, I looked
       at my brother and yelled, "We're going to DIE out here!". He
       yelled, "A man has to think of himself!".
       Our only chance to make it to shore was to let John go. We did.
       I glimpsed him floating away underwater. That was the most heart
       tearing, sad and anguished moment of my life all wrapped up into
       one desperate attempt to survive with my principles intact.
       We began swimming to shore with the waves still sending us down
       a couple of seconds after surfacing. The salt water mixing with
       my breathing felt like fire burning my throat trachea. The
       people on shore didn't get closer. I lost sight of my brother. I
       was yelling "Praise the Lord" even as I ran out of energy in
       those brief moments on the surface.
       My brother, much stronger than me and an agnostic, was
       concentrating on getting back to shore by cursing the ocean, the
       waves , the current and whatever else he could think of to keep
       himself "mad enough" to keep fighting for his life (I learned
       this from him later as I could not hear him in the tumult at the
       time).
       About 15 minutes into this ordeal, I lost all my energy. I
       couldn't speak and I couldn't swim. I would send the commands to
       my arms and legs and they just WOULD NOT MOVE! I was in very
       good shape at that time of my life and had no muscle cramps or
       anything like that. I sank into the depths.
       I made myself a promise that, even though I was sure to drown, I
       would absolutely refuse to breathe until my autonomic response
       kicked in after losing consciousness; I wasn't going to DO that
       burning throat thing any longer (later on my doctor said that
       saved my life but I'm not so sure). I began "breathing" by
       pushing the air in my mouth into my lungs and back. I thought of
       my wife and kids and asked God to take care of them.
       I was totally convinced I was a goner. For some reason, I
       stopped feeling that urgency to breathe. Perhaps it was
       something like the nitrogen narcosis that divers get but that
       only happens at depth with scuba gear. I think the Guy upstairs
       gave me a break here (You know, that sky God atheists don't
       believe in).
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       />
       I became quite relaxed, still unable to move and my surroundings
       got darker. I figure I was about 20 feet down when I felt some
       rocky bottom passing under my right toe. The force of the waves
       was slight here but my movement with the current was plainly
       felt. This woke me from my torpor.
       I concentrated on my foot and tried with all my might to flex my
       foot and anchor my toe on the reef surface below. It worked and
       I cut my toe. This woke me up more. I still, believe it or not,
       did not need to breathe. I waited for the current to shift
       direction and slid along the bottom with the top of my right
       foot. When the current flipped again, I would anchor my toe on
       the reef. I did this 5 or six times. The only part of me that I
       tried to move was my right foot and toe. I still did not have
       the strength or muscle coordination to swim. It was getting
       shallower (warmer water) and my surroundings lighter.
       All of a sudden the water got murkier and the bottom hard to
       hold because it was sandy instead of rocky and, like a submarine
       surfacing, my head popped out of the water.
       Now a normal person takes a deep breath here, right? Not me. I
       was in terror of losing my grip on the bottom (it was sandy with
       no toe holds) so I plunged back under to "hold position" until
       the current shifted. I had glimpsed my sister yards away and I
       realized I was on the shore so I weakly and carefully stood up,
       breathed in deep and vomited my guts out.
       I raised my head and stared into my sister's eyes. She looked at
       me and said, "You tried". John died that day. I ended up fishing
       my brother out as he was cursing his way in (We lay him on the
       beach and he was okay after about 20 minutes) and keeping John's
       teenage kid (he had two of his kids there that day) from
       drowning trying to fish his father's body out.
       We got the body as it managed to float a ways away from the rip
       tide and bump up against the far end of the tidal pool reef. We
       did CPR to no avail; he had a pulse from my pushing on his
       sternum while my sister (a registered nurse) cleared the air
       passage and breathed into his lungs but we gave up when the
       ambulance got there about 20 minutes later; he was a solid blue
       color (John was very fair and redheaded). Not a good day.
       The point of this experience I am relating is that we need to
       get our priorities straight in this country. WTF are we willing
       to die for? What are our principles? I know what mine are, who
       my boss is, and where I'm going when I leave this valley of
       tears. That guides me in my decision making.
       As a pilot I learned that you HAVE TO think about trouble all
       the time, plan what you will do when or if it comes and PRACTICE
       it in your brain. Then relax and go on about your life.
       Otherwise you will learn by hard experience why a coward dies a
       thousand deaths. Be true to your principles and you will sleep
       better at night and be an asset to humanity and God.
       My rant is for anyone here that hasn't thought this through like
       I KNOW Surly, Ashvin, RE, Eddie and probably Ka, among others,
       have. I'm in the moral imperative faith based Ashvin, Surly
       camp.
       More Background:
       I had events occur in my life that kept me alive miraculously
       when I should have gotten killed. I did not pray to avoid
       getting smacked by a car that ran a red light without lights on
       at night while my brother was saying "It's not going to get any
       greener" to me from the back seat of the car while I sat there
       like a bump on a log for NO ****ING REASON WHATSOEVER!
       I didn't spend 10 to 15 minutes underwater refusing to breathe
       and come out of it because I'm superman; it just happened and I
       wrote about it in detail here some time ago. Sure, I was
       praising the Lord and thanking Him for "rescuing" me while I was
       drowning trying to fish my brother in law dentist (who drowned)
       from the surf but it was my foot moving me along the bottom for
       those 10 to 15 minutes or so that got me to the beach because I
       could barely move my arms and had to concentrate just to dig one
       toe into the rocky bottom. God made me work for that one!
       While totaling a car, the seat belt caused my rib cage to rotate
       approximately 10 degrees or so I fully expected to die and had
       no desire whatsoever to stick around as I lay in a field gasping
       for air.
       I did not pray or ask to be miraculously healed but
       nevertheless, AFTER the doctor at the ER had decided to do an
       exploratory on me to see how ****ed up I was inside, everything
       just POPPED into place X-ray room just before the body
       cavity/chest X-ray prior to the operation. The doctor cancelled
       the operation after seeing the x-ray. Apparently nothing was
       broken. You studied medicine (this comment was originally made
       to a doctor). How many times have you heard of rib cage rotation
       along the sternum that just pops back into position? How about
       the spleen? In violent car crashes it is almost always ruptured.
       I lost consciousness gasping for air at the hospital with
       everything going round and round. When I woke up I was still
       gasping and being rolled into x-ray when all kinds of bubbling
       noises came from my chest.
       I addressed God in my mind and said, WHAT ARE YOU DOING!!?
       Something or someone said, also in my mind, I"M FIXING YOU. My
       reaction was of chagrin. I was convinced I was DONE here and now
       I had to live in this HELL HOLE some more.
       Now you can call that a faith based miraculous healing if you
       want but if you do I will say that you are fooling yourself. The
       "power" of your mind in Faith isn't going to have you or anybody
       else walking on water anytime soon. All this stuff and nonsense
       about each one of us being a little god and able to do miracles
       just by tuning in to some zen power or mind focus is simply
       magical thinking. As to JC's quote about moving mountains,
       mustard seed and Faith. He was talking about rocket fuel for
       evangelizing (fishing humans), not habitually violating the laws
       of physics.
       My belief in Christ is EVIDENCE based. RE thinks I fancy myself
       "privileged" to have these experiences. I consider myself
       incredibly stubborn; so much so that God decided that I am so
       dense that He had to show me some evidence before I would
       believe. He doesn't do that to most people because most people
       aren't that dense, period.
       And no, I'm not going to detail all the weird and wonderful
       stuff I have witnessed to you because some reader here might
       think I'm inventing it just to prove some metaphysical bull****
       I believe in. Sorry, I'm about as hard nosed about cause and
       effect as any other scientist out there.
       I once put a guy in jail because I refused to back down on my
       court testimony after witnessing a car he lost control of drive
       over and kill a street vendor. Despite receiving death threats,
       I said, **** it, it's the right thing to do so I'M GOING TO DO
       IT.
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       Everything I witnessed about God doing His thing here and there
       was rigorously questioned and fact checked moment by moment by
       me. I was NOT looking for anything but an excuse NOT to believe
       there is a supreme being that intercedes in the lives of people
       on this planet in a personal manner.
       But the observed events and facts said otherwise. Sure, I have
       Faith NOW, but I didn't do anything to earn it. It really IS, as
       the bible says, a gift.
       
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       #Post#: 1703--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unus
       ual Experiences
       By: AGelbert Date: August 15, 2014, 9:06 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       There is a lot of strange stuff that goes on out there.  :o I
       will now relate quite a strange close encounter I had with light
       beings/creatures or whatever.
       Here's the story of my experience April 9, 1990:
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       I was in a parking lot overlooking a city watching the moon rise
       at about 9:00 P.M. There were about 20 other people there
       listening to their radios and drinking beer. I wasn't drinking.
       I saw this weird cloud about 5 miles away boiling like a tornado
       cell. It seemed to  be backlit (not by moonlight) but there was
       no sound of thunder from cloud internal lightning. People
       started saying "look at that and ooooh and aaaah".
       This went on for about 5 minutes and two lights shot out of the
       cloud at least 1,000 mph (I'm a pilot and atc at this time so I
       had a very good grasp of distances and speeds). One was red and
       one was blue. The red one headed north (I was facing east
       towards the cloud and the moon) and the blue one headed south
       for a mile or so and did a hair pin turn and caught up to the
       red one headed north. They grew brighter and whiter and
       disappeared.
       It all happened in less than a minute after they shot out of the
       cloud. I was smoking a cigarette and was amazed at this
       "whatever" display of acrobatics and speed.
       I heard a muffled pop like when you pop a paper bag. I looked
       left and I saw the first light ball. Then POP, POP. Two more
       appeared out of nowhere right before my eyes (no doubt some kind
       of interdimensional movement similar to what you mentioned and
       what occurs constantly in the electron clouds around an atomic
       nucleus).
       I just stared at these majestic looking things that reminded me
       of a Dandelion seed Ball with clear Lucite rods sticking out.
       They where white and translucent, not yellow as portrayed. The
       center was compact. They floated south a few feet from me
       rotating lightly (the lateral rods were near stationary while
       the most forward and rear rods appeared to roll clockwise
       through the air two feet or so from the asphalt (the rate of
       roll did not coincide to the asphalt below like tire movement
       does). The asphalt was lit up by these things as they passed by.
       It took no more than a couple of minutes. Think of a feather
       floating in a whisper of a breeze.
       Then the lead one Popped and disappeared, followed in sequence
       by the other two. I caught a flash of light entering the cloud
       miles away and then the cloud stopped boiling and assumed a
       typical cloud appearance. I was sorry I hadn't tried to touch
       one.
       I didn't know anyone there so I didn't talk to anyone but people
       appeared pretty dumbfounded. I left a few minutes later. I've
       never made heads or tails of this experience. If the balls ARE
       energy creatures, they must have had a good time but made no
       effort to communicate. If they are vehicles, whatever pilots
       them is no bigger than a rabbit. Whatever they are, I do not
       think they are from Earth. It appears that there are some ETs
       out there that aren't shaped like us and prefer the sea urchin
       star shape.  :icon_mrgreen:
       What do you think I saw? Note. The moon didn't jump position. I
       lost no time.
       
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       [img width=130
       height=130]
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       />
       #Post#: 1891--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unus
       ual Experiences
       By: AGelbert Date: September 17, 2014, 8:26 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       True story.   8)
       
  HTML http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAJDnhpvtJY&feature=player_embedded<br
       />
       The above is NOT the experience related. I post it so you will
       get the picture of what a Huey Gunship in combat is like.
       Spring 1967 12:15 to 12:20 A.m. (I looked at the car clock!):
       I'm riding shotgun with my pal in his 1958 metallic blue
       Mercedes (in excellent condition with leather seats!). We are
       listening to the radio and smoking menthol tiparillos. It's a
       warm and pleasant night. We are at a stop light. The light turns
       green. He pulls out and crosses the intersection into our
       neighborhood. I was NOT thinking about my brother, Viet Nam or
       the war. I blurted out, "My brother just got shot. What time is
       it?". My friend asked me, "Is he dead?". I said, "no", as I
       looked at the car clock. There wasn't much else to say. I did
       realize it must have been day time in Viet Nam (it was an 11
       hour time difference from where I was).
       So, I wrote it down and waited. I didn't say anything to my
       parents or anybody else in my family. I figured that tiparillo
       had some weird shit in or I was unconsciously just concerned for
       my brother and my brain "made something up". I certainly did
       believe that telepathy was possible but that was only the second
       time I had one of those flashes (the other one was from my old
       man several years prior and I did not link the two). Note: I was
       an atheist at the time.
       Same moment in Viet Nam (I checked and confirmed this with my
       brother personally BEFORE telling him my experience!) It's mid
       day there (11:15 A.M.):
       A Huey helicopter gun ship with my brother as crew chief riding
       on the left side machine gun mount area was flying low while
       another one was flying high above. The tactic was for the low
       flying chopper (it was their turn in the barrel that day  :P )
       to sucker snipers into shooting at them so the high chopper can
       waste the sniper at the location of the weapon flash. It was a
       bright and hot day.
       They were close to Bien Hoa Air Base where they were based. So
       far it had been a calm day...
       My brother said he heard somebody say "move over" (when you are
       manning the machine gun on the left side, half your ass is in
       the breeze  ;D). He shifted his ass to the right and felt
       something hit him like a baseball bat on the left side of his
       ass (had he not shifted right, the round would have missed the
       pelvis and gone straight up into his abdominal cavity to his
       heart, probably killing him on the spot). The round lodged in
       his pelvis and cracked it. He was thrown to the right yelling
       "TAKING FIRE!". They flew out of it and the high chopper "took
       care of business".
       Flying back to base,  STILL with only a mildly sore ass, he
       asked who had radioed to "move over"? The other three crew
       members said the first they knew something was going on was when
       my brother yelled. "TAKING FIRE!". I learned all this many
       months later after my brother returned from Viet Nam.
       [img width=640
       height=380]
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       For crew chiefs only! Crew chiefs were top rated mechanics so
       they had "access" to some "expensive" replaced parts. My brother
       had one of these Huey helicopter rotor chain bracelets.  ;D
       #Post#: 2016--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unus
       ual Experiences
       By: AGelbert Date: October 10, 2014, 3:10 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Unlawful versus ILLEGAL   [img width=40
       height=40]
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       />
       What is UNLAWFUL?
       That which is contrary to law. “Unlawful” and “illegal” are
       frequently used as synonymous terms, but, in the proper sense of
       the word, “unlawful,” as applied to promises, agreements,
       considerations, and the like, denotes that they are ineffectual
       in law because they involve acts which, although not illegal, i.
       e., positively forbidden, [b]are disapproved of by the law[/b],
       and are therefore not recognized as the ground of legal rights,
       either because they are immoral or because they are against
       public policy. It is on this ground that contracts in restraint
       of marriage or of trade are generally void. Sweet. And see
       Hagerman v. Buchanan, 45 N. J. Eq. 292, 17 Atl. 946, 14 Am. St
       Rep. 732; Tatum v. State, 66 Ala. 467; Johnson v. State, 66 Ohio
       St. 59. 63 N. E. 607. 61 L. R. A. 277, 90 Am. St. Rep. 564;
       Pinder v. State, 27 Fla. 370, 8 South. 837, 26 Am. St. Rep. 75;
       MacDaniel v. U. S
  HTML http://thelawdictionary.org/unlawful/
       Agelbert RANT:Are you required to sign a ticket in order to
       avoid arrest? No. Of course, signing the ticket is not an
       admission of guilt.
       But YOU CANNOT be coerced under threat of arrest to sign the
       ****ing ticket! Don't SIGN ANYTHING you do NOT want to sign. And
       if the cop decides to arrest you, it is an ILLEGAL arrest and
       you will have grounds to sue the police department later on.
       Keep your cool with a criminal cop. They don't give a **** about
       the law and count on the corrupt, illegal and fascist "latitude"
       given them by our courts.
       And by all means, go after that cop in letters to the newspapers
       and your town council to get him or her fired. Call the police
       and go, in a group of two or more and voice your complaint and
       ask for a copy of the record of conversation. Do it more than
       once. Become a pain in the ass without becoming violent and
       giving them an excuse to beat you about the head and shoulders.
       ;D
       Don't wait for them to come to you and apologize or investigate
       their own corruption. They won't. They are a gang. They are
       vindictive as hell. They will try to entrap you and they will
       follow you around in their patrol cars looking for anything to
       give you a  hard time with. They are MENS REA from the word go,
       especially when you are making them act lawfully. They HATE
       that.
       They tried that with my wife. We went to the police station and
       offered to have them put a tracking device on our car so they
       would know where she was all the time.  ;D  They were not happy
       campers.  ;D They, of course, said they were NOT following my
       wife around. My wife disagreed, in her calm, deliberate "You are
       lying to me voice with times and dates". The chief said they
       were not "harassing" her and they were not discriminating
       against her and that patrols have the right, duty and obligation
       to follow anybody they wanted to follow at any time.  ;D
       Right... I love the legal boilerplate bull**** dance that
       humans, police and lawyers pull out of their ass whenever they
       wish to dodge responsibility for prejudicial behavior, don't
       you?  ;)  ;D
       The cop that was following her on the motor route is a woman.
       That SAME woman called for backup when an alarm went off at 3:40
       A.M. one moring at an office I delivered papers to on my motor
       route EVERY DAY, seven days a week. I got out of the car, walked
       5 or seven steps up a wheel chair ramp and dropped the paper by
       the door. I did that EVERY DAY. I heard no alarm. I never had.
       Then the **** hit the fan. There I was, with a cop car facing me
       that had pulled up silently and shined its lights on me as I got
       in my car.  [img width=30
       height=30]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-310714182509.png[/img]<br
       />She was out of the car jabbering on some hand radio for BACK
       UP(!!!?).   [img width=240
       height=120]
  HTML http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2009/347/2/6/WTF_Smiley_face_by_IveWasHere.jpg[/img]<br
       />So, I turned on the dome light, rolled done the window (it was
       below freezing outside). and put my hands on top of the steering
       wheel and said, "Can I help you, officer?". The visibly nervous
       woman cop approaches the vehicle and asked what I was doing
       there? I explained. She then got an embarrassed look on her
       face. I asked why the commotion? She said the police station had
       received a silent alarm. I explained that I did exactly what I
       did with the newspaper every morning. I did not touch or bang
       the storm door or open it to put the paper between it and the
       inner door (some customers requested that - not this one - and
       for the "math doer" la-la land logicians, spare the maladjusted
       movement sensor on the wheelchair ramp bull****  8)) Why would
       the alarm go off now? No answer. They left. I said good day and
       they did too.
       SOMEBODY was setting me up. If you don't ACCEPT that, you are
       BRAIN DEAD.
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       At any rate, in regard to the police stalking (when THEY do it,
       it's not called THAT, of course. LOL!) of my wife, they stopped
       following my wife after the visit(s) to the police station(s).
       (visibly - but we continue to be on their **** list for having
       the audacity to believe we have the same rights as anybody else
       around here - Oh yeah, I've got lots of PROOF. Don't expect me
       to take THAT to court! LOL!).
       I repeat, they are MENS REA from the word go, especially when
       you are making them act lawfully. They HATE that. But we have to
       do that. Otherwise, the entire putrid inertia of police
       brutality and illegality will increase. Most lawyers will do
       NOTHING to stop this unless you pay them to. They are. more
       often than not, hair splitting, procrastinating, erring on the
       side of caution, enablers and accessories to the problem than a
       force for good.
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       />
       If you doubt that, just study Germany's "justice" system as the
       Third Reich took hold and LEARN that the lawyers didn't do JACK
       **** to stop the abuse as it got more and more brutal. I saw a
       picture of a Jewish man carrying a placard in Germany BEFORE the
       NAZIs had started killing Jews that read "I will not go to court
       for grievances" (paraphrased and in German, of course) hoping to
       get some attention to the abuses in the court system (to no
       avail). The COURT system is where fascism gets it "legal"
       gangrenous foothold. That's not the place to get justice or some
       type of remedy for damages when fascism is taking hold. Here's a
       term that makes the crooked enablers of our "justice" system
       grab their wallets in panic!: EX CURIA.
       Ex curia is the ONLY WAY we are going to stop this ****. Don't
       expect any lawyer or judge to agree with you. They HATE ex curia
       solutions because they undermine THEIR "authority" and gravy
       train. Why do you think the term "vigilante" justice has such a
       pejorative connotation? Vigilante activity, when it IS JUST,
       should be celebrated as ex curia justice, not condemned. The KKK
       is vigilante CRIMINALITY, not "justice".
       ex curia [eks kyoo r-ee-uh] Spell Syllables
       out of court; without litigation.   [img width=40
       height=40]
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       />
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       [img width=250
       height=150]
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       Now for your enjoyment and edification, the Police from
       "Pennslavania"  ;D  provide some pointers on behavior during
       close encounters with cops. [img width=60
       height=60]
  HTML http://www.imgion.com/images/01/Angry-animated-smiley.jpg[/img]<br
       />
       [quote]If You Are Stopped by the Police in Your Car[/quote]
       SNIPPET:
       [quote]When the officer asks you to sign the ticket or warning
       notice, it is not an admission of guilt, you are simply
       acknowledging that you received it. If you refuse to sign, the
       officer will still issue the ticket but will mark it
       "Refused."[/quote]
  HTML http://www.twpusc.org/police/what-to-do
       [quote]If The Police Come Knocking At Your Door[/quote]
       SNIPPET:
       If the police knock at your door and ask to come into your home,
       you do not have to let them in unless they have a warrant that
       has been signed by a judge, or under emergency circumstances,
       the officer is in pursuit of a suspect.
       Ask to see the warrant.
       If it is an ARREST WARRANT, make sure that you look at the name
       on the warrant to be sure the police have the right person.
       If it is a SEARCH WARRANT, make sure it is for your specific
       address and check to see what is listed on the warrant to be
       searched for in your home or location. The warrant gives the
       officer(s) the legal right to temporarily seize the listed
       property on the warrant.
       The police may also search without a warrant whenever they have
       arrested a person. They may search his or her person and the
       immediate area where the arrest was made.
       The police may also search after consent is given. If you object
       to their request to search, be sure to make it clear that you do
       not agree to any kind of search. They may also search when there
       is an emergency situation (for example, someone screaming for
       help inside your home) or when they are chasing you or someone
       else into your home (hot pursuit).
       If the police do not have a warrant, you may, but do not have to
       let them in, UNLESS they demand to come in. Perhaps you can
       settle this matter at the door, if they do insist on coming in
       over your objections then:
       Ask to see identification or a police badge.
       Let them in only after they demand to come in.
       If you object, then make sure you tell them that you DO NOT
       consent to any search.
       Remember the badge numbers and the names of the officers. Write
       it all down. The officers usually have business cards, feel free
       to ask the officer(s) for one.
       [quote]If You Are Stopped By The Police On The Street[/quote]
       SNIPPET:
       "You have the right to remain silent; anything you say can and
       will be used against you in court; you have the right to talk to
       a lawyer for advice before you answer any questions and to have
       a lawyer with you during questioning; if you cannot afford a
       lawyer, one will be appointed for you before any questioning if
       you wish."
       The officer will ask you if you understand your rights, and are
       you willing to answer some questions, or make a statement. If
       you don't want to talk after you have been informed of your
       rights, then you DO NOT have to.
  HTML http://www.twpusc.org/police/what-to-do
       
       Agelbert NOTE: An UNLAWFUL law, no matter WHAT the Police are
       claiming below:
       [quote]Things to Remember[/quote]
       SNIPPET:
       Under Pennsylvania law, you may not use force to resist a legal
       or illegal   :o  >:(  arrest. Remember you have the right to
       contest the validity of your arrest later on in court.  ::)
  HTML http://www.twpusc.org/police/what-to-do
       #Post#: 2021--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unus
       ual Experiences
       By: AGelbert Date: October 11, 2014, 4:20 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Our Court system is corrupt. They will be handmaidens for
       fascism, not a bulwark against it.
       Always remember all those brilliant (no sarcasm here - they were
       considered the pinnacle of legal thinking and properly just
       constitutional law guardians) jurists and lawyers from 1930s
       Germany, THAT WERE STILL THERE in 1968, who peddled empty
       rhetoric for Hitler to survive, presented (at Nuremberg) an
       erudite "defense" of their prudent, measured, legal, analytical
       logic of doing the "best they could" under the duress of
       Hitler's dictates (they claimed they saved many lives - NOT)
       only to be told they were full of baseless rhetoric and
       perjurous mendacity after over a thousand witnesses told the
       REAL story. Nevertheless, most of them got off SCOTT FREE. They
       do take care their own, don't they.   ;D
       They DON'T take care of we-the-people. They never will.
       Handmaidens of whoever is in power with empty, but high sounding
       rhetoric to accompany their claim to being defenders of justice.
       I wish it weren't so.
       Discussing LAW with a lawyer is a waste of time; they are
       hopelessly locked in confirmation bias and defending their bread
       and butter with all their sophistic and erudite skills. It's not
       personal; it's just that they keep foremost in their keen minds
       the disbarring consequences of defending natural law over
       statist laws formulated for the coercion of the citizenry on
       behalf of the health of the state.
       I have been to court Pro Se twice. I pounded the law, used state
       supreme court Stare Decisis (case law) precedent, rules of legal
       procedure and constitutional law as well as mortgage law and
       inheritance law (when needed) to back every  assertion on every
       motion, presented evidence of fraud, and pleaded with a judge to
       overturn a clearly illegal power of attorney, only to be ignored
       (because, of course, the judge could not counter my claims
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013201314.png).
       This is what they do when you pound the law and they don't want
       to follow it. They are watching VERY closely for you to make
       assertions not based on law (especially if you are a [i]pro se
       messing with their private corporate club [/i]- At which point
       they lambast you with all sorts of legal terms for not knowing
       what you are talking about, demanding that you get a lawyer, or
       face contempt of court charges or be prevented from representing
       yourself henceforth - I studied all those games in advance so
       they were never able to have that "fun" with me. LOL!).
       But they aren't done just because they can't throw you out of
       court for not knowing the law. Oh no! If, after the judge
       willfully (and "lawfully"
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013201314.png)<br
       />ignores your motions, you attempt to pressure the judge asking
       them to "reconsider" a court order or overturn (leave without
       effect) their sentence or ruling, they just say NO.
       In our corrupt system, a judge does NOT have to justify s hit,
       regardless of what a lawyer will tell you. In order to get a
       judge to recuse themselves, GET THIS, THEY have to APPROVE the
       motion for recusal that you present!
       Talk about stacking the deck! And forget complaining about the
       judge to the court system unless you have a lot of money and
       patience. One judge I recently had the misfortune of dealing
       with was taken to the state supreme court for deliberately
       ignoring a state supreme court ruling on Dolo incidente (a bank
       offers financial products to a public entity, and hides the true
       costs of the product) in order to defend a crooked banking
       institution.
       The state supreme court ruled it was an HONEST MISTAKE OF
       INTERPRETATION (bull****!) by said judge. Said judge, that had
       just thumbed her nose at the supreme court, was not penalized in
       any way, and was allowed to continue as a judge in good
       standing.
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183404.bmp
       Expect a lawyer (after a week on the clock charging per hour
       studying the court proceedings   ;D)  to say this is another
       ISOLATED INCIDENT and, overall, the system is just  dandy and
       JUST, and every case must be looked at separately, not as a
       "ridiculous, wild eyed, judgement" of the overall system by
       "imagining" a pattern of corruption where "there is none".
       RIGHT.
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183404.bmp
       Lawyers and judges have a REAL PROBLEM connecting dots. They are
       LOATHE to see a pattern that reveals the TRUTH about how corrupt
       and dysfunctional our court system is. They are the fish that
       swim in that water. They will never see anything wrong with the
       water, period. That's confirmation bias. Of course, they will
       argue day and night that they are there to preserve the
       integrity of that system and are vigilant of flaws and the
       system is "self correcting" for these "unfortunate isolated
       incidents" of corruption. That's just rhetoric.
       The system now dances to the tune played by, mostly the large
       corporate institutions in general and the banks in particular.
       All these so called LEGAL, LAWFUL LAWS can be traced to profit
       through some form of violation over the natural laws of life,
       liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
       The latest twist, a very embarrassing one for the judge I
       mentioned above
  HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/8.gif,
       that shows
       CLEARLY the puppet threads from the bank to the judge (in my
       quixotic legal effort) is hilarious if it wasn't so tragically
       unjust.
       I filed a motion requesting a third party lawsuit. I was asked
       to reveal the grounds for inclusion (even though I had JUST DONE
       THAT in the motion) of said third party (my dad's second wife
       who was now legally an heir due to the death of my father).
       I gave the grounds, I cited the law, I gave precedents, etc. I
       alleged she MUST be part of the bank's list of party sued or the
       lawsuit the bank presented is invalid. I cautioned the judge
       against ruling for the bank because this set up a very bad
       precedent allowing blood heirs to ignore a widow from a second
       marriage in foreclosure sale proceeds. I even was so bold as to
       claim the constitutionality of that ruling could be questioned
       and the foreclosure sale ruled invalid along with (I slipped
       this in at the last
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-311013201314.png)<br
       />the judge appearing as the handmaiden of the bank and thereby
       undermining the TRUST of the people in our court system (a cause
       for recusal - I never did waste my time attempting to get that
       judge's recusal - they are mostly ALL banking puppets).
       I was ignored. The "honorable" judge, after (LOL!) stating there
       was "no controversy" in the lawsuit, hands down the sentence in
       favor of the bank. I call up the widow and tell her if she
       thinks she can play this game and run to the foreclosure auction
       and snap up the property, she's got another thing coming. I told
       her this was a setup from the word go and admitted I had gone to
       bat for her to defend my interests, not just hers. I yelled this
       at her: She had never defended justice or my inheritance. She
       had sided with my family and they were going to shaft her. Have
       a nice day.
       Well the widow, firmly holding her wallet in panic, raced to the
       bank with her copy of the last will and testament of my old man.
       The bank filed a motion to "leave the sentence without effect"
       and amended the lawsuit to include the widow. I had filed
       multiple motions asking, FOR MONTHS, that all that be done and
       MUST ?BE DONE according to the LAW! In exactly two days, the
       judge rescinded her sentence, accepted the amended lawsuit, AND
       issued a sentence ruling in favor of the NEW and IMPROVED
       amended lawsuit.
       What an embarrassment for that judge to behave like such a
       lackey! I have a count of over 16 judges that have perused that
       case since I began being a pain in the legal ass in February.
       I'm sure the ****tail parties are no fun for that judge right
       now.  8)
       There were a few, brave, principled jurists in Germany that were
       NOT Jewish who were willing to stand on principle. There are a
       few in the USA today.
       [img width=640
       height=380]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-101014220651.png[/img]
       They will be silenced by their peers and the state. The only
       solution to tyranny is an EX CURIA solution.
       [img width=640
       height=380]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-081014144000.jpeg[/img]
       [move][font=verdana]Hebrews 11: 39 These were all commended for
       their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised,
       40 since God had planned something better for us so that only
       together with us would they be made perfect[/font].
  HTML http://dl3.glitter-graphics.net/pub/465/465823jzy0y15obs.gif[/move]
       #Post#: 2031--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unus
       ual Experiences
       By: AGelbert Date: October 13, 2014, 7:27 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=RE link=topic=3541.msg58594#msg58594
       date=1413197739]
       [quote author=Surly1 link=topic=3541.msg58593#msg58593
       date=1413196028]
       "Violent reactionary resistance" puts you squarely in Brandon
       Smith territory, which is, as John Lennon once famously
       observed, exactly where the state wants you because then it
       knows how to deal with you, and batshit crazy as a bonus.
       Far better for the citizens to withdraw their consent  by means
       of public assembly, acts of group noncompliance, boycotts,
       demonstrations, etc. Far more effective, but much harder to do.
       As we've already seen, as the hirelings of TPTB rollout their
       hospitality for nonviolent protesters.
       [/quote]
       The problem of course is that TPTB have no issue with responding
       to Non-Violent protest with Violence.
       [center]
  HTML http://www.technology-digital.com/web20/192897-us-davis-police-lt-john-pike-dousing-seated-students-with-pepper-spray.jpg[/center]
       You also are fully aware of Agents Provacateur, and obviously
       Pepper Spray is only a tiny part of the arsenal of Violence
       brought by the State on Peaceful Protesters.  You got your Water
       Cannon, your Rubber Bullets and your LRAD too!
       [center]
  HTML http://boringpittsburgh.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/g20-pittsburgh-lrad-first-time-2-600x519.jpg[/center]
       Obviously, confronted with this, followed by shipping off
       numerous people to the largest Prison System the World has ever
       known, the folks protesting don't always stay calm and peaceful.
       In the Warsaw Ghetto, with the exception of a few resistance
       episodes, the Jews resisted peacefully.  It did not do them much
       good.
       [center]
  HTML http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/89/Selection_Birkenau_ramp.jpg[/center]
       Who made it through the Holocaust?  The RESISTANCE FIGHTERS! The
       BIELSKIS!!
  HTML http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007743
       [center]
  HTML http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5f/Bielski_partisans.jpg[/center]
       [quote]The Bielski partisans were an organization of Jewish
       partisans who rescued Jews from extermination and fought against
       the Nazi German occupiers and their collaborators in the
       vicinity of Nowogródek (Navahrudak) and Lida in German-occupied
       Poland (now western Belarus). They are named after the Bielskis,
       a family of Polish Jews who led the organization.
       Under their protection, 1,236 Jews survived the war, making it
       one of many remarkable rescue missions in the Holocaust.[1] The
       group spent more than two years living in the forests and was
       initially organised by members of the Bielski family.[/quote]
       [quote]Jewish Partisans
       Some Jews who managed to escape from ghettos and camps formed
       their own fighting units. These fighters, or partisans, were
       concentrated in densely wooded areas. A large group of partisans
       in occupied Soviet territory hid in a forest near the Lithuanian
       capital of Vilna. They were able to derail hundreds of trains
       and kill over 3,000 German soldiers.
       Life as a partisan in the forest was difficult. People had to
       move from place to place to avoid discovery, raid farmers' food
       supplies to eat, and try to survive the winter in flimsy
       shelters built from logs and branches. In some places, partisans
       received assistance from local villagers, but more often they
       could not count on help, partly because of widespread
       antisemitism, partly because of people's fears of being severely
       punished for helping. The partisans lived in constant danger of
       local informers revealing their whereabouts to the Germans.
       Many Jews participated in the partisan units formed in France
       and Italy to help regular Allied forces defeat German forces.
       They forged documents and identity cards, printed anti-Nazi
       leaflets, and assassinated collaborators.
       Twenty-three-year-old Hannah Senesh, a Hungarian Jew who
       emigrated to Palestine in 1939, was one of the thirty-two
       Palestinian parachutists the British dropped behind German lines
       to organize resistance and rescue efforts. Before crossing the
       border in Hungary on June 7, 1944, to warn Hungarian Jews about
       the extermination camps, Senesh, a poet, handed a poem to one of
       her companions. It ended with these lines: "Blessed is the heart
       with strength to stop its beating for honor's sake. Blessed is
       the match consumed in kindling flame." Senesh was captured the
       next day and executed as a traitor to Hungary.
       Key Dates
       JULY 20, 1941
       GHETTO ORDERED IN MINSK, SPARKS RESISTANCE
       On July 20, 1941, the Germans order the establishment of a
       ghetto in Minsk. Within days of the ghetto's establishment,
       thousands of Jews are killed. Jews in the ghetto form an
       underground resistance network in August 1941. Members of the
       underground set up a printing press and newspaper to distribute
       information to the ghetto population. The underground also
       contacts partisan units outside the ghetto to find hiding places
       for Jews in the ghetto. In March 1942, the Germans carry out an
       action in the Minsk ghetto in which thousands are killed.
       Shortly thereafter, members of the underground begin leaving the
       ghetto for the forests where they form partisan units and fight
       the Germans. The partisans in the forests work to rescue Jews
       from the ghetto and bring them to the forests, where they
       establish partisan bases. Approximately 10,000 Jews flee the
       Minsk ghetto for the forests by 1944. Many lose their lives in
       the attempt.
       JANUARY 1942
       JEWISH ARMY IN FRANCE
       The Jewish Army (Armee Juive; AJ), is established by Zionist
       youth groups in Toulouse, France. The AJ operates throughout
       France, but is particularly active in the southern regions.
       Members are recruited from both Jewish and non-Jewish youth and
       resistance groups and are trained in military and sabotage
       activities. AJ members smuggle money out of Switzerland to
       France to distribute to Jewish relief agencies. This money helps
       thousands of Jews in hiding. The AJ assassinates some of those
       who cooperate with the Germans and smuggles about 500 Jews and
       non-Jews across the border into neutral Spain. In 1943 and 1944,
       the AJ establishes close ties with Allied forces--including
       General Charles de Gaulle's Free French of the Interior (FFI)
       forces. In 1944, during the liberation of France, the AJ
       participates in uprisings in Paris, Lyon, and Toulouse against
       the German occupation.
       JANUARY 21, 1942
       UNITED PARTISAN ORGANIZATION IN VILNA
       After reports of mass killings of Jews at Ponary, outside Vilna,
       members of Zionist youth movements establish the United Partisan
       Organization (Fareynegte Partizaner Organizatsye, FPO) in the
       Vilna ghetto. The organization prepares to resist the Germans in
       the event that the ghetto is threatened with destruction and
       establishes contact with other ghettos to acquire weapons and
       encourage resistance. In early September 1943, the Germans
       deporting Jews from the ghetto and are confronted with
       resistance by FPO members. The FPO decides to abandon the ghetto
       and flee to the nearby forests to fight the Germans from the
       outside. The last group of resistance fighters escapes the final
       destruction of the ghetto on September 23, 1943. They leave the
       ghetto through the sewers and join partisans in the Rudninkai
       and Naroch forests.
       [/quote]
       [quote author=JoeP link=topic=3541.msg58624#msg58624
       date=1413240012]
       AG, I was reviewing some state and local election info today and
       when I read the candidate statement below, it made me think
       about your courtroom endeavors
  HTML http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/index.php/topic,3541.msg58510.html#msg58510...it<br
       />sure would have been nice if you had been in front of a judge
       that had the "David and Goliath" mentality that this guy claims
       to have.
       [float=left]I'm a political nobody. I am a small town defense
       lawyer in rural northeast North Carolina. Professionally, I help
       those accused of crimes, as described in the Sixth Amendment to
       the U.S. Constitution.
       I have no strong ties to any party, power or influence. I have
       not taken a dime from any interested party, person or group, and
       I do not plan to. I will fund my own campaign. Judicial
       independence becomes suspect when money is exchanged.
       I am asking for support in the form of votes so that I can head
       to Raleigh to fulfill the remaining term of retired Chief Judge
       John Martin on the NC Court of Appeals. The only promise that I
       am making is that I will do my best in writing opinions by
       applying the law as it is written. I believe both David and
       Goliath walk into a courtroom on equal footing and they should
       be treated as equals in the eyes of the law. [/float]
       
  HTML https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=608417605944217&story_fbid=609096055876372
  HTML https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=608417605944217&story_fbid=609096055876372
       [/quote]
       RE,
       Nice historical posts. I'll repost that on my forum.
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714194256.bmp<br
       />
       JoeP,
       I hear ya. Go some pages back on this thread and you will see
       that I stated I would not argue LAW with a LAWYER because,
       regardless of the fact that some lawyers such as Ashvin are
       highly ethical and principled Christians, over all, that
       profession and most of those who make their living from it, have
       historically been the handmaiden of governmental abuses, not a
       bulwark against them. There is a built in, and profound,
       conflict of interest inherent in any member of an organization
       that licenses its individuals to practice. I am, at this moment,
       researching the incredible acquiescence of the Court System in
       the USA to all the blatant and unconstitutional LEGAL and LAWFUL
       LEGISLATED attacks on personal freedoms hitherto guaranteed by
       the Bill of Rights (for white land owners only at first - but
       you get the idea  ;)).
       It is NOT hyperbole to claim that, especially post 911, FASCSIM
       has made giant strides in the USA and the Court System is AIDING
       in the implementation of routine violation of our Constitution.
       That is what I am researching and I will post on it when I get
       some more info. My experience with law and the study of it is
       not limited to my pro se "fun". As a young pilot, I formed a
       union. The boss had me fired under false pretenses. I went to
       the department of labor and filed a complaint. Arbitration took
       place. I proved I was fired without cause. All well and good. In
       that state, the LAW says you CAN fire an employee without cause
       but you must pay him a month's severance pay. The boss was
       ordered by the government to pay me a month's pay. He filed for
       Chapter 11 bankruptcy (he was NOT actually bankrupt - he kept
       running that air taxi for YEARS on Chapter 11
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191329.bmp).<br
       />
       Due to "technicalities" of the LAW, he therefore did not have to
       pay me that month's pay. Lots of details about how to "connect"
       with the Court assigned "trustee" that then decides how to, and
       in what order to, pay the creditors. Corruption from the word
       go! Nuttin' you can do about it. Tough shit, pal. UNLESS, as RE
       stated, you have the money to fight a long court battle. As GO
       said, 'all's well that "ends" well' is fine and dandy for some
       people but it leaves a lot of road kill.
       The law profession will claim that our Court System, however
       flawed is the ONLY alternative to JUST change besides violence.
       RE disagrees and so do I. This is a scare tactic/argument from
       adverse consequences/fallacious debating technique evidencing a
       lack of objectivity and an obvious conflict of interest. Rather
       than argue the merits of non-violent ex curia solutions pro and
       con, to perform a knee jerk sniff at ex curia solutions (NON
       VIOLENT ex curia ONLY IS ALL I ADVOCATE!) is par for the course
       for lawyers. Why?
       
       I posted a picture of a fat kitty and full bowl of food. That
       cat has a "conflict of interest" over access to that food bowl.
       He is honest about it. You will get swatted (if you are NOT he
       who fills that bowl  ;)) if you mess with that bowl. Mr. Kitty
       has his NAME on the bowl where his "income" is found.  Whether
       he is full or not, Mr. Kitty simply cannot be objective about
       who gets to eat at that food bowl, period.
       Are we communicating?
       I will NOT argue Medicine with a Veterinarian when I am
       convinced they are wrong as I later confirmed when a Vet wanted
       to put Nino on a low protein diet. It would have been a waste of
       time. I saved a bundle of money and extended the life of an
       obligate carnivore. I never went back to that Vet, of course.
       I will NOT argue Law with a Lawyer, either. See above.
       Professionals have a tendency to argue from authority. They have
       the credentials so they can. But when they are wrong, their
       pride gets in the way and they will argue until the cows come
       home. And for those who make their living through words and
       documents filled with arguments and counter arguments, you are
       just providing entertainment for them. They ENJOY debating. They
       know ALL the tricks. From the moment you open your mouth, it's
       game, set, match for them. I prefer to be entertainment for a
       kitty or my wife.   ;D
       Are we communicating?
       Not yet? Here, read this hypothetical exchange between an
       Aborigine in Australia and a law firm:
       [img width=640
       height=480]
  HTML http://www.dw.de/image/0,,2362526_4,00.jpg[/img]
       Aborigine Bob Weatherall protested in London against the Museum
       of Natural History's decision to test indigenous bones.
       Australia calls for German museums to give back human bones
  HTML http://www.dw.de/australia-calls-for-german-museums-to-give-back-human-bones/a-2426639
       [img width=640
       height=480]
  HTML http://www.dw.de/image/0,,2426771_4,00.jpg[/img]
       Whoopie! Great Grandma is doing her part for SCIENCE! [/I]
  HTML http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TzWpwHzCvCI/T_sBEnhCCpI/AAAAAAAAME8/IsLpuU8HYxc/s1600/nooo-way-smiley.gif
       Agelbert NOTE: If you are an Aborigine, FORGET damages awards of
       portions of the estates from, or RETROACTIVE MURDER CHARGES AND
       posthumous trials for, all these serial murderers.  ???
       Lawyers will calmly state that the murder wasn't murder when it
       was committed because it was, uhm, LEGAL and LAWFUL then.  ;D
       Water under bridge, old boy. But our law firm will be happy to
       sue a British, German or American Museum ([i]Hello, Smithsonian!
       ;D) to get the bones of your great grand pappy for a reasonable
       fee. No, we can't get them to stop displaying the bones for
       science until we win the lawsuit. No, sorry, we can't get all
       the pictures taken of your deceased relatives in the museum
       files collected and given to you. Science must, after all, be
       considered. Just consider that your relatives "donated" their
       bodies to science like people do today when they sign that part
       of their driver's license. Remember, our legal system is JUST!
       Trust us. We are lawyers. We know the LAW and we are the ONLY
       defense you have and bulwark you can rely on to protect you from
       injustice, abusive government and anarchy!
  HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/301.gif
       Would you like to engage our firm to get justice for you and
       your family from this heinous act done to your relatives? I
       would be incensed if this outrage had been perpetrated on my
       ancestors! Justice must be done!
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-300614160245.gif
       Excuse me?
       No, we are unable to take the case on contingency or pro bono.
       Sorry.  Now, if you will excuse me, I have an appointment with a
       paying client. Best of luck to you, and God Bless you. [img
       width=80
       height=40]
  HTML http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_9HT4xZyDmh4/TOHhxzA0wLI/AAAAAAAAEUk/oeHDS2cfxWQ/s200/Smiley_Angel_Wings_Halo.jpg[/img]<br
       />
  HTML http://www.kenjacobs.com/lawyer3ag.jpg
       #Post#: 2034--------------------------------------------------
       The Day the Middle Class Died: August 5, 1981 - I remember it we
       ll
       By: AGelbert Date: October 14, 2014, 12:39 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Fri Aug 05, 2011 at 04:08 PM PDT.
       30 Years Ago Today: The Day the Middle Class Died
       by
       Michael Moore
       From time to time, someone under 30 will ask me, "When did this
       all begin, America's downward slide?" They say they've heard of
       a time when working people could raise a family and send the
       kids to college on just one parent's income (and that college in
       states like California and New York was almost free). That
       anyone who wanted a decent paying job could get one. That people
       only worked five days a week, eight hours a day, got the whole
       weekend off and had a paid vacation every summer. That many jobs
       were union jobs, from baggers at the grocery store to the guy
       painting your house, and this meant that no matter how "lowly"
       your job was you had guarantees of a pension, occasional raises,
       health insurance and someone to stick up for you if you were
       unfairly treated.
       Young people have heard of this mythical time -- but it was no
       myth, it was real. And when they ask, "When did this all end?",
       I say, "It ended on this day: August 5th, 1981."
       Beginning on this date, 30 years ago, Big Business and the
       Right Wing decided to "go for it" -- to see if they could
       actually destroy the middle class so that they could become
       richer themselves.
       And they've succeeded.
       On August 5, 1981, President Ronald Reagan fired every member of
       the air traffic controllers union (PATCO) who'd defied his order
       to return to work and declared their union illegal. They had
       been on strike for just two days.
       It was a bold and brash move. No one had ever tried it. What
       made it even bolder was that PATCO was one of only three unions
       that had endorsed Reagan for president! It sent a shock wave
       through workers across the country. If he would do this to the
       people who were with him, what would he do to us?
       Full article at link:
  HTML http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/05/1003695/-30-Years-Ago-Today-The-Day-the-Middle-Class-Died
       Agelbert NOTE: The Strike was on August 3, 1981. Reagan gave
       them two days to get their asses back to work. Three air traffic
       controller guys at Syracuse did. The rest did not. At Syracuse
       TRACON (Tower/Radar Approach Control) we had a Tower chief and
       an assistant chief, a secretary, four staff (two data systems
       specialists - I was one of them) and two training instructors.
       We had 4 or five supervisors and about 20 air traffic
       controllers. Ninety percent left.
       Those of us who stayed had to "get current" if we weren't
       working airplanes at that time. I did , along with the rest of
       the staff. We worked ten hour days, six days a week for a month
       and then ten hour days, 5 days a week for about two years. One
       guy who left couldn't take the pressure of leaving. He died of a
       heart attack at a mere 35 years of age leaving a wife and three
       children. He was a good man. He just couldn't say no to the
       coercion of the union.
       The union had the brass to come to the tower to collect "blood
       money" donations from those of us who hadn't struck as if it was
       OUR fault and not theirs. So it goes. I was in the union, but I
       told Jeff Hall, the union rep, that I had signed a document when
       I hired on agreeing not to strike so that was that. He was not
       pleased.
       Of course, I am certain he had absolutely nuttin' and nada to do
       with it but somehow some sand managed to get in my gasoline
       tank. Just a coincidence of course. I took my F150 super cab
       ford pickup to Courtesy Ford. They overhauled the engine for
       around $1,200.00 but 'forgot' to save an oil sample despite my
       specific request to do so (their mechanics were unionized and
       supported PATCO, but I'm certain there was no connection to that
       'lapse of memory' that enabled my home owners insurance rep to
       give me the, sorry, no evidence of vandalism here. Have a nice
       day.
       I said, but look, I got these piston sleeves from the mechanic
       that did the overhaul. LOOK at the scoring! I waved them at him.
       Sorry, only the oil sample is "acceptable" evidence.  ;D I
       wanted to throw them at him but I resisted the temptation to
       engage in a stupid bit of force that would not do my soul or my
       body (jail for sure!) any good. Of course I cancelled my
       homeowners on the spot. Don't get me started on the LAWS that
       allow Insurance companies to engage in highway robbery on a
       daily basis.
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183312.bmp
       Where was I? Oh yes, all that overtime was useful in paying
       Courtesy (PRO-UNION) Ford for the overhaul. After about 5
       months, I fainted on position (clearance delivery) shortly after
       a conversation with a fine fellow air traffic controller member
       of the John Birch Society discussing, quite politely, of course,
       his views on minorities multiplying like rats and ruining the
       country.
       You get a bit tired of that shit after a while. I had two kids
       (at least I THOUGHT they were mine) and promptly got a
       vasectomy. I had told this guy that. I was a dumb fucking
       Republican then. But it DID NOT MATTER to this guy. I was one of
       THEM.
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714183312.bmp
       I guess the work and stress (It gets old to drive by a bunch of
       fine fellows looking at you with daggers in their eyes  :P) got
       to me that day. These were people, some of which went to the
       same church as I did. So much for their Catholic faith.  :(
       Anyway, I was taken to a doctor who prescribed some inderol
       (relaxes smooth muscle on blood vessel walls so your blood
       pressure cannot get too high BUT it HAS potential negative
       effects for your heart in the future - don't try to prove THAT
       in a court room. LOL!) and promised to DO ME THE BIG FAVOR of
       not putting it on my record so I would still be able to work
       airplanes. He was actually SCREWING me (and doing the Tower
       Chief a big favor by keeping a much needed warm body working
       airplanes come hell or high water  ;D) because a job related
       medical condition is a HUGE difference in pay between a non-job
       related (As in, no evidence of a medical condition, my good
       [s]minority[/s] man, sorry. - That was ten years later when I
       was retired at 26% non-job related disability  ;) instead of 75%
       because THAT IS THE LAW. My disability was job "aggravated" but
       not job "related". Ah, the pliability of the English language
       when TPTB want to DANCE away from acting responsibly.
       Of course, there is NO PATTERN here. Just because it happened to
       little old me, doses not mean this is SYSTEMIC in our
       bureaucracy. Oh, no, not at all.  ;D
       What I'm saying is that the deliberate demands of our rules,
       regulations and LAWS are set up so you need to have a cast iron
       paper trail or a lot of money when ever you want to get any sort
       of workmen's comp. All the tools to help the average Joe on the
       job have been steadily ERODED by legalese, fine print and
       boilerplate over the years.
       It's all about promising you the moon and then not delivering it
       with some slight of hand which is all quite legal and clever.
       This has gotten worse and worse as the decades go by. As RE has
       said, our system is for the well to do, period. The rest of us
       are commodities without rights.
       I survived, just barely. And I was one of the less than 10% of
       the 16,000 to 18,000 that STAYED and kept the air traffic
       control system functioning for the 3 to 4 years it took to train
       and season new air traffic controllers. No good deed goes
       unpunished and all that.
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-200714191456.bmp<br
       /> I pity the poor people working airplanes now. It's probably
       even more dog eat dog than it was then.  [img width=30
       height=30]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-300714025456.bmp[/img]<br
       />
       Have a nice day.
       #Post#: 2035--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Member Interesting, Hair Raising, Humorous or Otherwise Unus
       ual Experiences
       By: AGelbert Date: October 14, 2014, 5:35 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]Of course, the above is not to imply that I wish to limit
       your voice in any way, shape or spindulated manner.  Your
       contributions to this forum are much appreciated. I simply wish
       to let you know that, well, you get the idea.   ;D  Carry on.
       [img width=30
       height=30]
  HTML http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-141113185701.png[/img]
       My name is Fazio. Yes, that's Sicilian. :exp-grin: :exp-laugh:
       :exp-laugh:
       [/quote]
       [quote]From the moment you open your mouth, it's game, set,
       match for them. I prefer to be entertainment for a kitty or my
       wife.   ;D[/quote]
       Excuse me?
       [font=impact]No, we are unable to take the case on contingency
       or pro bono. Sorry.  Now, if you will excuse me, I have an
       appointment with a paying client. Best of luck to you, and God
       Bless you.[/font]   :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh:
       :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh: :exp-laugh:
       
  HTML http://www.kenjacobs.com/lawyer3ag.jpg
       
       Agelbert you hot ticket you, I am crying tears and
       roaring with laughter.
       How dare you hide these talents as a master comedian from the
       Diner forum for so long?
       Please Agelbert, drop the duckweed and renewables for a week or
       so and continue upon this side splitting path, I beg you.
       Masterful works AG, sheer MASTERPIECES.
       Lighten up Ashvin, we all know your one of the good guys; let's
       face it, AG is one funny bastard, and on quite a roll with this
       one.    :exp-cheesy: :exp-grin: :laugh: :laugh:
       When an Aborigine meets a Lawyer.  :laugh: :laugh: ;D ;D    [smg
       id=2684 type=full align=center caption=""]
       
       
       GO,
       Glad to be of service.
  HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/4fvfcja.gif
       I can not only do comedy, I can also do a bit of low grade
       poetry:
       [font=times new roman]In days of old, when I was bold
       And my prostate was not inflated
       I taught them flight, got them over their fright
       and damaged airplanes were prevented [/font]  :icon_mrgreen:
       Now for some serious Law stuff here!
  HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/301.gif
       Ahem! My vast and
       thorough perusal of jurisprudence (and juris-imprudence too!
       ;D) has uncovered these gems from a former Supreme Court Justice
       with a love of Sherlock Holmes novels and an encyclopedic
       knowledge of the law, why there is law, what it is supposed to
       do, what it isn't supposed to do and, more importantly, what it
       REALLY IS ALL ABOUT.   8)
       [quote][font=times new roman]“Every society rests on the death
       of men,” he liked to say. If a nation needs soldiers, it seizes
       young men and marches them off to war at the point of a bayonet.
       If an epidemic breaks out, it forces the public to get
       vaccinated.[/font][/quote]
       He said THIS, which sounds quite good as a defense of the Court
       system.  ;)
       [quote][font=times new roman]The [b]language of judicial
       decision is mainly the language of logic. And the logical method
       and form flatter that longing for certainty and for repose which
       is in every human mind. But certainty generally is illusion, and
       repose is not the destiny of man.[/b][/font][/quote]
       As a
  HTML http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/exagerent/police/enprison.gif<br
       />lawyer, I can CLEARLY see he used that word "language" twice.
       Notice he DID NOT say that ALL judicial decisions are BASED on
       LOGIC, although one COULD interpret that quote in said legalese
       fashion.
       But other famous quotes from him show that he knew the score and
       wanted us to know it as well.  8)
       [quote][font=times new roman]Law is not being based on logic,
       but on experience.
       Most of the things we do, we do for no better reason than that
       our fathers have done them or our neighbors do them, and the
       same is true of a larger part than what we suspect of what we
       think.
       A man is usually more careful of his money than of his
       principles.
       Young man, the secret of my success is that an early age I
       discovered that I was not God.
       Certitude is not the test of certainty. We have been cocksure of
       many things that were not so.
       Any two philosophers can tell each other all they know in two
       hours.
       Don't be 'consistent,' but be simply true.
       Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at the touch,
       nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will
       be round and full at evening.
       Every event that a man would master must be mounted on the run,
       and no man ever caught the reins of a thought except as it
       galloped past him.
       Man's mind, stretched by a new idea, never goes back to its
       original dimensions.
       Beware how you take away hope from any human being.
       The only prize much cared for by the powerful is
       power.[/font][/quote]
       He knew government is a compromise where the citizenry gets
       certain benefits but the lion's share of those "benefits" will
       always be controlled by an elite establishment. I think he just
       didn't want the elite establishment to become a dictatorship.
       But, considering the goons that populated the high court then,
       he was a breath of fresh air; a very BRIEF breath of fresh air
       in our descent into empire and fascism.  :(
       Please excuse this blatant and coarse attempt by yours truly to
       use the old  appeal to authority fallacious debating trick to
       sound erudite, polished, knowledgeable of law (and so on,  etc.
       ;D). I protest any accusation of low class buffoonery!
  HTML http://www.pic4ever.com/images/301.gif
       I never met Oliver
       Wendell Holmes and never argued a case before him! So there! If
       he happens to be on the same page as I am on issues of LAW and
       juris-imprudence, good for him! ( and me  ;D - Any port in the
       storm and all that. ) ;D
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