DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Religious Convictions
HTML https://religiousconvictions.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Mike's
*****************************************************
#Post#: 936--------------------------------------------------
Paranormallity.
By: A nonny mouse Date: April 3, 2015, 7:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
As I said on Kerry's LGO site I think I might want to burble
away on the subject of 'Paranormallity' so this is just to get
the thread 'logged' here, as well as 'there'.
I may then come back to it later.
Such thoughts as I have are probably best aired where few are
reading.
Hello to whoever (if any!).
#Post#: 937--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paranormallity.
By: Helen Date: April 4, 2015, 10:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hello Mike...burble away , I am a fellow burbler...but rapidly
turning into a good reader rather than a poster these days.
Feeling pretty weak and frail. But still fighting the good fight
of faith...
Blessings XX
#Post#: 938--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paranormallity.
By: A nonny mouse Date: April 4, 2015, 11:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi Helen,
On LGO I said :-
Hi Kerry,
Ever since my earliest forays into Forums I have been fascinated
by your thoughts regarding your 9 reincarnations, Huysmans, Abbé
Boullan, etc.
I began those forays pretty entrenched in my own intent to
'straighten out' the 'Christianity' that I had embraced since my
childhood, but had been obliged to abandon when I found that it
didn't 'stand the test' once hit by controversy.
But that was an entrenchment based on open minded intent to not
be bound by prejudice, and years of Christian forum diversity
have left me way out on a wing of faith that, if detailed, would
be pilloried by most Christians.
I might eventually unfold a few of my personal thoughts
regarding the 'Paranormal', but in a separate thread so as not
to derail this one.
For the present I'll forget my "way out wing of faith" and
simply address 'Paranormallity'.
As far as by own experience of paranormallity is concerned
(absolutely ziltch BTW) all I can address is what others report.
One such example is that of children who are reported to have
given detailed accurate historic descriptions of ancient things
that they could have no 'normal' experience or information,
another would be the claims by those who consider themselves to
be the reincarnation of a dead person, and yet another would be
that of 'Spiritualists' claims to be making contact with
deceased persons.
I can only guess at an explanation and my guess is as follows:-
Spirits of the clinically dead troll around, without
omni-presence, and occasionally settle and inhabit the minds of
selected living hosts.
Therefore when someone accurately recounts ancient history of
which they could have no 'normal' experience or information it
is in fact the hosted spirit who is providing such information
as that spirit experienced prior to clinical death.
I can apply the same belief to many other claims of different
forms of paranormal experience but wouldn't want to upset those
who believe theirs to be 'of God'.
No need for me to say more since my belief is nothing more than
my guesswork explanation.
#Post#: 939--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paranormallity.
By: Kerry Date: April 4, 2015, 4:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Mike,
If the spirit of a dead person can wander about and plant
memories into the minds of other people, how do we know that
our memories of this life are valid? How can I know that what
I remember about yesterday is right? Perhaps what I seemingly
remember about yesterday are being projected into my mind by a
spirit?
Here's something I seem to remember from this lifetime: I've
read that scientists have discovered people have memories that
play tricks on them about things that happened. Some people
forget things that really happened; and others invent things
that didn't happen. So the scientists say -- at least my memory
says there are scientists who say I could be wrong.
Ah but if I could be wrong about my memories, perhaps there are
no scientists at all conducting experiments. Maybe I invented
them to make life more interesting. Maybe a spirit injected
memories about scientists studying memories to drive me crazy.
Indeed how can I be sure that what I believe is happening now,
really is happening?
I can't, I can't be sure in some logical scientific way. What
I do seem able to do is to decide "what is true" for me. I seem
to be here now, so I can believe I'm here now. I can't prove
that. Indeed it might not be true; and in one way I think it
isn't true. At another level, I don't believe "I" exist. I
think the only reason "I" seem to exist is because God is
imagining that I do. Perhaps if God didn't have faith in my
continuing existence, I'd stop existing.
The Bible talks about people having faith in God; but did you
ever wonder about God having faith in us? Maybe we would
vanish if He ceased to have faith in our existence. To quote
Paul who quoted some poet (if we can believe these things):
"For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain
also of your own poets have said, For we are also his
offspring." Perhaps it's all something like a dream.
Perhaps the universe is being dreamed into existence by God.
What is true then? Well, whatever I say is true! It's true
for me anyway. It may not be true for you; but perhaps you
aren't real and I'm only imagining you.
So here I am or seem to be; and it also seems to me that "I" am
not "the only one." I could be wrong, but it would be
dreadfully dull if I were the only one like me in the universe.
It seems true to me that I can determine what is true for me
and that you can do the same thing. It keeps things
interesting. The universe would be dull indeed if we were all
the same. So I have my "reality" and you have yours "reality."
I can hear someone say, "But wait! What is really real?" Ah,
real in some objective way?
It is whatever "we" say it is. L. Ron Hubbard said,
"Reality is agreement." If we both see the sun rising and
setting and can talk back and forth about it, we "agree" that
the sun is real. And so it goes for "everything" that we may
consider real. What is "true" in my mental universe may not be
"true" in yours; and we call that disagreeing. If we agree
about what is true, we call that "reality." If we feel
wobbly and insecure about our beliefs in reality, we find people
who disagree with us "threatening." That is the reason (I
allege) that we lock up "mentally ill" people who have different
but harmless ideas about reality. We aren't too sure about
our own reality and can be shaken up.
I proclaim (from my own universe and my own sense of truth)
that God gave us all the ability and the right to determine what
is true in our own universes. There is no way of my being able
to determine what is true for you or vice versa. Yet people
attempt it.
The attempt to get around the Divine Gift of Freedom will drive
the person who tries it insane. I would be stark raving mad,
I believe, if I believed I could determine for you what is true
in your own universe. The "objective" universe is not like
that; and if I believe it is, then I'm crazy.
But take the crazy person who believes it is possible. In his
mental universe, he believes he can determine what is true for
others! Aha! Logic takes over here after this assumption.
If he can determine what is true for others, then it's equally
true that others can determine what is true for him. Such a
poor soul will be extremely confused both about his own life and
about "reality out there."
I think you can observe this: The person who tries to make
decisions for other people against their free will usually is
not making sane decisions for himself. Much of the time, he
could make things happen the way he wants if he merely pursued
it and made decisions for himself. If he wants a glass of milk
and believes there's milk in the refrigerator, he's free to
motivate himself to get up and get it. If he prefers to try to
get others to do it for him, he may or may not succeed. The
person who habitually tries to manipulate others should
understand that he will run into opposition at times when others
don't agree. Life will become harder. It's remarkable that
people who complain the loudest about how others oppose them are
usually setting up opposition for themselves.
On religious forums and the like, it's somewhat amusing to see
people who believe they can proclaim something and make it
true. It's amusing in its own way because it's true in a way.
God gave us all the right to do that; and you can see these
people attempting to do it but failing. The urge for
self-determination is still there undefeated; but it's taken a
strange turn because they believe they can make things true for
other people. Indeed that is their goal.
Why would that be? They don't believe in themselves, that's
why. They lack faith in their ideas about what is true in
their own universes. Ironically they believe if they can get
others to "agree" with them, it will make those things true.
Yes and no. If we could get everyone on a forum to be a
Calvinist, fine, we'd have a "reality" of some kind going; but
would that make Calvinism the truth of the whole universe?
Would it make it true for God?
Back to memories now. I believe it is not possible for one
person to determine for another which memories are true, which
false, which invented by the person, which sent telepathically
from other beings. It is something each person needs to
determine for himself. That being said, I'll admit I have
more faith in some people's memories than other people's. If
someone's recollections of events are remarkably different from
mine, I figure he's nuts. He has the right to be nuts; and I
also have the right not to trust his recollections.
What is known much is how thoughts and memories can be
transferred from one being to another. I put forth the rule,
"You can't cheat an honest man." I say with Solomon that
whoever digs a pit will fall into it. It has to do with his
views of reality. If someone believes he can project thoughts
into my mind and fool me, that is one the rules of his own
mental universe. He made those rules up for himself. He will
live by those rules.
Can someone do such a thing? Yes, yes, yes. My first
experience inside a church of Scientology involved someone
putting a thought into my mind. He wanted me to sign up and
take a course; and he injected the idea in my mind, "I want to
take this course." What saved me? My honesty. I was
not guilty of trying to fool others using such a trick, so I
couldn't be fooled by it. I knew what the thought was, and I
also knew it wasn't my thought.
Don't believe it? I found out later I was right. A
Scientologist (who was a clear) explained it to me. I also
read and discovered there is an exercise where students project
ideas into ashtrays. You can project an idea anywhere you
please. Anyone can do this. The offense in that case was
trying to deceive me by making me believe it was my own idea.
I have the right, I believe, to project any thought I want
anywhere. Sooner or later, the person will "think that
thought." (The mechanics can be complex at times.) He will
"consider" it. It will occur to him. What I can't do however
is force him to adopt it as true. I also believe other people
can project any idea they want into my mind; and I will "think"
it or "consider" it -- and then either accept or reject it.
I regret to say it, but I think it's true: Most people cannot
distinguish between his own ideas and the ideas that other
people have projected or are projecting into his mind. They
have abused telepathy so much themselves by trying to deceive
others using it, they can be deceived easily themselves.
When I send telepathic messages to people, I try to make it
clear the thought is coming to them from the outside. It's not
their idea. I don't resort to this that often since most
people can become confused by telepathy; but there are a few
people I send ideas to because I have no other way to
communicate with them. At times, I even get answers back;
and sometimes, they even say things which get reported in the
news that suggests to me that my idea did get through. I can't
force them to agree with me; but I can send them thoughts.
So what about spirits that would implant fake memories or other
thoughts into the minds of the living? They would insane
spirits, to be sure. They would fall into the pit they dig for
others. Such spirits would be deceived themselves at best or
malevolent at worst. They would spin and lose control over
their own minds.
What you may never have considered, Mike, not even in your
wildest dreams, is how some theology has been derived from past
lives and things which happened "between lives." The ideas
about "hell" and "devils" are often connected with things
people have experienced in the past. If you can stir up that
kind of "bad memory" in a person, you can steal bits of his
freedom and sanity from him. The mechanisms are known. What
he is frightened of can be more than something in a fevered
imagination -- he may have memories of these things from his
past.
The entire idea of living but once and then being judged and
going either to Heaven or hell was invented to manipulate and
control men. "Bow down to us and our ideas or fry in hell
eternally!" It may sound foolish; but if someone has
memories of similar things from his past lives, he can be
influenced by such teachings. It will not matter to him if
this belief contradicts the Bible.
Do contradictions matter? You tell me. We are told the Last
Judgment of sinners lies off in the future; yet we are also told
that immediately after death, God judges everyone and sends some
to Heaven and others to hell. We are told that once you're in
hell, there is no hope for you. I ask if that is true, why
bother with the resurrection and Last Judgment then? The idea
doesn't make sense; but people are apt to cling to it, fearful
of being damned if they doubted. On that, I assert they
have a religion of fear, not one of faith, hope or charity --
let alone a sound and stable mind.
2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but
of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
God gave us our minds so we could begin to understand Him, so
we could become aware of Him. God is not confined by rational
ideas; but God is not given to irrationality or madness. If God
were to act irrationally, people could never understand anything
about Him. So step one might be to embrace our rational minds
as a gift from God. We should not think of God as a sort of
madman who demands we believe crazy things ourselves or do crazy
things. Yet it seems to me that many Christians have ideas
they embrace for which they have little if no evidence; and
often those ideas contradict the very Bible which they say is
completely inerrant. How could you believe the Bible is
inerrant and then believe something that contradicts it? Huh?
#Post#: 941--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paranormallity.
By: Kerry Date: April 4, 2015, 5:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
There was an article in USA Today
HTML http://www.today.com/news/return-life-how-some-children-have-memories-reincarnation-2D80550946<br
/>recently about children who say they recall past lives.
Researchers confirmed many of the details. Now if those
memories were implanted by the spirit of a dead person, the
question has to be, "Why?" Just to play tricks? To
undermine the "Die and go to Heaven or hell" hypothesis?
I believe the child with those memories will ultimately have to
decide for himself what he believes about them.
What should I do about my memories of past lives? Say they're
bosh? If so, why should I trust any memories I have?
#Post#: 942--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paranormallity.
By: A nonny mouse Date: April 4, 2015, 7:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Kerry.
Now where's Helen?
And what if my view of the God/man relationship were those of an
extreme deistic nature?
Man being left to the 'laws of nature', with divine intervention
being entirely at God's discretion, as distinct from being
'called down'?
Wouldn't that answer the question of unanswered prayers?
I'm off on holiday in a few hour's time.....I'll be taking my
IPad but not sure that I'll be able to use it.
#Post#: 943--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paranormallity.
By: Kerry Date: April 4, 2015, 7:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Mike link=topic=95.msg942#msg942 date=1428193584]
Thanks Kerry.
Now where's Helen?[/quote]
Helen has been under the weather lately.
[quote]And what if my view of the God/man relationship were
those of an extreme deistic nature?[/quote]
I go in that direction myself. When the Bible says, "God," I'm
not sure it means the ultimate Oneness, the Source of all that
is. I think "God" can mean almost anything as long as it's an
expression one way or another of the Divine Nature. In the
Bible, I'd say "God" often means the lawful expression or
manifestation of God for this planet. God is like a Tree --
and we see only a twig if that.
[quote]Man being left to the 'laws of nature', with divine
intervention being entirely at God's discretion, as distinct
from being 'called down'?
Wouldn't that answer the question of unanswered
prayers?[/quote]It might, but then you'd have a random sort of
God, a whimsical God.
Can we prove that man was left to the laws of nature? What if
he chose to have them as restrictions? What if people ask God
for things that are not completely right?
Notice that Job starts off praying and sacrificing for his
children. He's not even sure if they sinned. He's just
agitating about things and imagining maybe they did. Job
appears to be partial. Aren't we all? But isn't that a flaw of
sorts? Result: They all died. His prayers and sacrifices
were in vain. Indeed perhaps they were even a curse. At the
end of the book though, "God" tells Job to pray and sacrifice
for his three friends who did sin. Job's prayers are answered
then.
I saw once where a woman asked people to pray that her daughter
got a job. Her daughter had a job interview and the mother
thought praying about it was the thing to do. I wasn't so sure
about that. What if she wasn't qualified for the job? What if
she was qualified but other people were more qualified? Should
we pray that the person doing the hiring ignore the
qualifications of the applicants and have God inspire him to
hire the daughter? I didn't think that was right. I think
the person doing the hiring should decide what's best for his
company. He has free will, doesn't he? Should I pray for God
to take away his free will to please this woman who wanted him
to hire her daughter?
I don't believe this kind of prayer reaches the Throne of God.
I think God would be offended by such a prayer so it never comes
before Him. Yet many prayers are like that.
I read where a woman thanked God after she won a tennis match.
She thought God decided who would win and who would lose. I
don't know how it is in other places; but one coach in a school
in the US had the team pray to win before they played. To me,
this is just silliness; but if they win, they might think the
praying is what did it!
Perhaps our other unanswered prayers look as silly. Perhaps God
has His reasons and very good reasons too; but we can't see them
because of our limited viewpoint.
[quote]I'm off on holiday in a few hour's time.....I'll be
taking my IPad but not sure that I'll be able to use it.
[/quote]Pray that it will work. . . .
#Post#: 948--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paranormallity.
By: Helen Date: April 5, 2015, 11:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Boy you guy write small!! :-[
Mike I will be dead boring in this kind of discussion..as I am
quite black and white on it.
As for the word" Paranormallity" I don't much like it.
I believe there are no departed soul "walking about or
floating". People 'see' them ( or say they do) in seances, but
I don't believe one bit that it is "the person," but a dark side
impostor. But that just my view.
I have seen my dad and spoken to him many times in dreams, my
mother too. I don't for one moment believe it is "them" but a
lovely dream as a gift. Just I have seen Dave in dreams....but,
he is very much alive, also fast asleep and snoring. I have
also 'gone' to one level of heaven...but it was a dream I wasn't
there.
"To me" if anything is haunted by some person who used to live
there....it is the demonic impersonation of who that person used
to be. They love any attention they can get...and obviously get
it from the public.
Do I think "things go bump in the night" and the atmosphere
grows cold when they are active...yes...but it is never someone
who "lived". But thats just my two cents...see, I told you I was
boring. :D
#Post#: 950--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paranormallity.
By: Kerry Date: April 5, 2015, 2:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Helen link=topic=95.msg948#msg948 date=1428250002]
Boy you guy write small!! :-[[/quote]
No, you just need to adjust your browser. :)
If you use Explorer, using CTRL and + will make everything
bigger; and it will shift words down into new lines so you don't
need to go back and forth to read each line. Other browsers
will make things bigger too; but some of them make the lines too
long and then you have to go back and forth to read each line.
#Post#: 954--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paranormallity.
By: Piper Date: April 6, 2015, 1:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[font=trebuchet ms]What is 'paranormal', except those things
beyond scientific understanding? When understanding the
definition of the word and believing that all things are
possible with God, that which is 'paranormal' becomes not only
possible, but likely. God and His ways can not be limited,
except by the limitations we knowingly, or unknowingly, place on
Him. If we stand before Him, kneel before Him, if we believe He
is able to accomplish exceedingly above and beyond that which we
expect, an infinity of possibility opens wide.
What, indeed, is 'reality'? Is the life that we 'live' each day
any truer or more tangible to our soul than the life we live in
our imagination or in our dreams? Isn't it true we can escape
to the most wonderful of places when we dream, awake or asleep?
Some of the best 'experiences'--and worst-- in my life, have
occured while my body was safely asleep in a warm bed.
Time moves in a linear fashion. In 'life' we can never go back.
Yet, we often do go back in our imagination, rewriting our
story, opening doors that closed or closing those which were
opened. Can we learn and grow from such ruminations, and if so,
do they not take on a 'reality' with a lifeforce of its own?
When I meditate and shut out the world with all its noise and
chaos, why do I find a 'place' of peace and solace? If that
place is not 'real', if the landscapes and shores I create are
not 'real', then why do I long to return? It can be a strange
kind of 'lonely' there, but what if, on occasion, I could allow
others to enter in? Would we then share a deeper 'reality', a
deeper 'oneness', then anything 'life' offers?
I long for that day when I am no longer alone in my dreams.
Are the ethereal places of our soul places that can be forcibly
entered into by others, or do others arrive only by invitation?
I often wonder. I know I can not be alone 'out there', yet it
seems to be the way I prefer it. Living, moving, and breathing
in God, flying, catapulting, somersaulting in joyous abandon
apart from every heavy burden of life. If the silver cord were
cut, would it be enough, alone with God? Perhaps . . . for
awhile. But, I think, like God, I would eventually seek
family--others to share in the joy of being and creating that
which is deeply 'real', in a spiritual sense, in a spiritual
place and time away from time, incorruptible and eternal.[/font]
(Don't ask me where all that came from. LOL :) I think real
freedom is away from 'reality'. Reality, what we perceive as
life, is a heavy weight, shackles that bind, an anchor holding
us back from all we can be. Yet, it is here God has us. Surely
we are bound that we learn to love, that we not abuse our
freedoms when, finally, we are released.)
*****************************************************
DIR Next Page