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#Post#: 902--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinations
By: Gaffer Date: March 29, 2015, 10:11 pm
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There's been a debate in some places ever since the outbreak of
measles that apparently got spread at Disneyland. Do
governments have the right to tell parents they must get their
children vaccinated?
#Post#: 904--------------------------------------------------
Re: Vaccinations
By: Helen Date: March 30, 2015, 9:54 am
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When will I ever learn to copy my long posts.. :'( :-\ :-[
Chrome suddenly quite on me and I lost the whole lot!! I
answered NO and gave a very long post about the various
conspiracy theories that are here to breed fear and control us.
It was good, I wrote loads of it. All the government control
conspiracies...then lost it all.
Our brother John/Amadeus would say that God didn't want it
posted, he is probably right....it was probably just my fleshy
ramblings. :)
#Post#: 905--------------------------------------------------
Re: Vaccinations
By: Deborah Date: March 30, 2015, 3:03 pm
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This is an American issue... there's no compulsory vaccination
in the UK, yet the vast majority of parents are happy to have
their children vaccinated for most things.
It's the compulsion that breeds the conspiracy theories.
#Post#: 907--------------------------------------------------
Re: Vaccinations
By: Kerry Date: March 30, 2015, 4:05 pm
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=93.msg904#msg904 date=1427727252]
When will I ever learn to copy my long posts.. :'( :-\ :-[
Chrome suddenly quite on me and I lost the whole lot!! I
answered NO and gave a very long post about the various
conspiracy theories that are here to breed fear and control us.
It was good, I wrote loads of it. All the government control
conspiracies...then lost it all.
Our brother John/Amadeus would say that God didn't want it
posted, he is probably right....it was probably just my fleshy
ramblings. :)
[/quote]Sometimes you can recover a post by using the "back"
arrow. You can also do the "select all" trick; and then hit
"copy." If the post goes through, you can forget about it.
You don't need it copied into a file somewhere else if it went
through.
If it doesn't go through and the "back" arrow doesn't have your
text in the box, you can paste the text into the box. If you
have a problem, you can also paste the text into a file and try
later.
#Post#: 908--------------------------------------------------
Re: Vaccinations
By: Kerry Date: March 30, 2015, 4:47 pm
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[quote author=Deborah link=topic=93.msg905#msg905
date=1427745838]
This is an American issue... there's no compulsory vaccination
in the UK, yet the vast majority of parents are happy to have
their children vaccinated for most things.
It's the compulsion that breeds the conspiracy theories.
[/quote]It's been debated in the UK.
HTML http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2012/09/02/should-we-make-childhood-vaccinations-compulsory/
Governments are apt to do nothing until some disaster strikes.
Take the recent case of the plane that went down when one pilot
left the cockpit. The remaining pilot wrecked the plane.
Some countries already had rules in place that required at least
two pilots in the cockpit at all times. Others didn't. Now
that disaster struck, countries that didn't have the
requirement are scurrying to add it.
Particularly problematical are the diseases where babies can't
be vaccinated for. If my neighbors don't have their older
children vaccinated and their children get sick or even die,
that's one thing; but what if their children would make my baby
sick and die? What if your pediatrician was treating
children who were old enough to be vaccinated but weren't? You
could take your baby there for a minor problem and have your
baby catch some deadly contagious disease.
My guess is most Muslims in the UK are not opposed to
vaccinations; but what the more radical ones who oppose all
vaccinations? There is a Muslim doctor who says all
vaccinations are wrong.
HTML http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2011/01/20/islam-vaccines-and-health-2/
Smallpox has been wiped out; and I wonder if it would have been
if the UK at the time had not forced everyone to be vaccinated.
Polio would probably not exist now if people hadn't opposed it
on religious grounds in a few places. Today it still poses a
threat. When war disrupted Syria and people couldn't get
vaccinated, it cropped again. It's still around waiting to break
out again. The reason seems to be Muslim clerics in
Afghanistan, Pakistan and Nigeria telling people that polio
vaccinations were an attempt to sterilize Muslims.
The question is not about conspiracy theories. The question is
if governments have the right to force people to be vaccinated.
If non-Muslim children who were too young to be fully
vaccinated for polio were catching polio because there were
enough Muslims who refused to vaccinate their older children,
would the government have the right to intervene?
Not that it's a matter of Islam. Here in the USA, it's other
types of people who are opposed to vaccination. People are
suspicious of doctors for other reasons. The high cost of
delivering a child is one along with the unpleasant
circumstances. Women who give birth first to a child in a
hospital often are unhappy and then find it much more pleasant
and much less expensive to give birth at home with a midwife.
Those women are suspicious of doctors. Health care is a racket
here in the USA. Look at this chart.
HTML http://d35brb9zkkbdsd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/nyt-birth-costs-e1372685923857.png
And no, the women in the USA are not getting any better care.
#Post#: 912--------------------------------------------------
Re: Vaccinations
By: Kerry Date: March 30, 2015, 5:37 pm
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Deborah,
I found an article about a church here in Pennsylvania. It's
said they have had 22 children die because their teachings tell
them to avoid doctors. It's a little long and unpleasant. I
don't know if you would want to read it or not.
HTML http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Faith-Healing-Churches-Linked-to-Two-Dozen-Child-Deaths-208745201.html
Where does the line get drawn? If parents have certain
religious beliefs that could kill their children, what should
the government do? Nothing, saying the right to religious
freedom is more important? We would not allow people to
practice human sacrifice if that was part of their religion. I
think government has the right to intervene if people's religion
or other beliefs are affecting other people.
#Post#: 913--------------------------------------------------
Re: Vaccinations
By: Kerry Date: March 30, 2015, 5:40 pm
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Helen,
Another question for you. Do you think the government has the
right to force people vaccinate their dogs and cats against
rabies?
#Post#: 919--------------------------------------------------
Re: Vaccinations
By: Deborah Date: March 31, 2015, 1:48 am
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Kerry
The question of compulsory vaccination has been raised in the
UK, but I don't think any government has yet considered it
seriously.
There are a few 'oddballs' in every country who oppose
vaccination. In the UK they are very small minorities, and as
long as the vast majority of people are vaccinated against
things like measles and whooping cough, there is no public
health problem.
You mentioned smallpox and rabies. These are dramatic illnesses
with very high mortality rates (100% in the case of rabies), and
so vaccination is the only way to deal with them. The UK is free
of rabies, and the only way to keep it so is to maintain very
strict quarantine regulations - with compulsory vaccination of
any animal brought in from abroad. So this is probably our only
compulsory vaccination. Some people will try to break the rule
(because the vaccine is expensive) but I don't think there is
any public call for it to be abolished.
#Post#: 921--------------------------------------------------
Re: Vaccinations
By: Deborah Date: March 31, 2015, 3:50 am
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[quote]The UK is free of rabies, and the only way to keep it so
is to maintain very strict quarantine regulations - with
compulsory vaccination of any animal brought in from
abroad.[/quote]
Forgot to mention that there is an alternative to vaccination -
six months quarantine. The vaccine option was only brought in a
few years ago.
#Post#: 922--------------------------------------------------
Re: Vaccinations
By: Kerry Date: March 31, 2015, 6:40 am
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[quote author=Deborah link=topic=93.msg919#msg919
date=1427784486]
Kerry
The question of compulsory vaccination has been raised in the
UK, but I don't think any government has yet considered it
seriously.[/quote]As with many other things, governments are apt
to wait until a disaster motivates them.
[quote]There are a few 'oddballs' in every country who oppose
vaccination. In the UK they are very small minorities, and as
long as the vast majority of people are vaccinated against
things like measles and whooping cough, there is no public
health problem.[/quote]Yes, that's true.
[quote]You mentioned smallpox and rabies. These are dramatic
illnesses with very high mortality rates (100% in the case of
rabies), and so vaccination is the only way to deal with them.
The UK is free of rabies, and the only way to keep it so is to
maintain very strict quarantine regulations - with compulsory
vaccination of any animal brought in from abroad. So this is
probably our only compulsory vaccination. Some people will try
to break the rule (because the vaccine is expensive) but I don't
think there is any public call for it to be abolished.
[/quote]Rare but it does happen from time to time. The last
known case, from what I could find, was from a bat that somehow
bit a human in 2012. The type of bats there seldom bite
humans; and I doubt they would bite animals much -- and if they
did try to bite animals, the animals' fur would probably protect
them.
[quote author=Deborah link=topic=93.msg921#msg921
date=1427791800]
Forgot to mention that there is an alternative to vaccination -
six months quarantine. The vaccine option was only brought in a
few years ago.[/quote]I also discovered that there is some
concern over puppy smuggling. The BBC
HTML http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-30043935
reported:
The last case of rabies in dogs in the UK (outside of
quarantine) was in a dog imported from Pakistan in 1970.
Wound cleaning and immunisation within a few hours after contact
with a suspect rabid animal can prevent the onset of rabies and
death.
Nigel Gibbens, the UK's chief veterinary officer and Defra's
chief spokesman, said: "We are seeing evidence of animals being
fraudulently introduced under the pets passport scheme, and that
needs to stop.
"The UK has, throughout the time we've been running the regime
since January 2012, carried out more checks than other member
states. So another of the [Pet Travel Scheme] changes is that
all member states, all countries of the EU, will be required to
do a proportion of checks.
I think it sad when a country has reduced a disease to only a
ghost of a presence that people would risk reintroducing it by
smuggling puppies in.
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