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#Post#: 924--------------------------------------------------
Re: What about dogs?
By: Amadeus Date: March 31, 2015, 11:35 am
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=89.msg917#msg917 date=1427766281]
Hebrew has two words for "man." Enos means the physical human
being. Adam means the spiritual type. I believe Adam embraces
all life. Adam was to exercise dominion over all life.
I think in the perfected world to come, spiritual beings will
be able to experience how animals experience things. They will
be able to fly like birds, leap around like goats, etc. We
will not be limited to experiencing life from the solely human
viewpoint.[/quote]
[font=courier]Consider also the words of Jesus with regard to
coming to him as children and these words: "For of such is the
kingdom of God". The untarnished, uncommitted child is really
more like the innocent lower animal. Then the child begins to
learn the ways of his elders and then down and down he
goes.[/font]
[quote]The original h'adam was not like people today, not if it
was both male and female and then divided. It seems possible
to me that "Adam and Eve" entered human bodies . . . when God
gave them garments of "skin." Man must solve his own problems
now before the problems of the other animals can be fixed.
Thus "all creation groans."[/quote]
[font=courier]Perhaps if it were not for men and their ways the
"other animals" [usually perceived as lower by men]wouldn't need
any fixing. [/font]
[quote]The three levels could refer to spiritual levels of the
Lion/Lamb, the Man in two forms of lightened and dark, and the
Eagle/Serpent. The ark may not be about anything physical at
all for all I know. If the patterns of the Heavens were being
threatened, then life on earth would also be threatened and
could never come into line with the heavenly patterns above.
"Thy kingdom come . . . on earth as it is in Heaven." The two
heavens of Upper and Lower Waters seem to have been the most
threatened -- and the waters of the flood came from both -- from
above and also up from below. It the turmoil of these heavens,
the ark preserved the templates for life in the three heavens --
and those templates then could steer life on the physical earth
properly. Was a there a physical flood too? I think so. And
I think some of the worst atrocities were eliminated -- where
animals existed that were half man and half beast -- we still
have images of such creatures. If anything should scare
fearful people, perhaps it's the mad scientists in our day who
wish to tinker with genetics.[/quote]
[font=courier]If we throw into this mixture of information that
"earth" is what the natural man is, ["all are of the dust, and
all turn to the dust again"] then also will we better understand
the portion of the prayer you quoted above.
Then the question you raised in my mind if you didn't directly
express it: Apparently as terrible as things were prior to the
flood, are they not approaching the level of terribleness
today?[/font]
[quote]In short, it's hard for me separate the animals from
humans. The world won't be at peace until the "sons of Adam"
are exercising correct dominion over all life so that all life
is the way it's supposed to be. But that cannot be true now,
not when man is still battling his "own inner beast" nature and
can't control it? And of course, man's beastly nature is no
better than the animals.
[/quote]
[font=courier]
Yes, some men are quick to praise the great wealth of
information amassed by men and technological advances made by
men, but those things are NOT winning the battles against his
"own inner beasts".[/font]
#Post#: 925--------------------------------------------------
Re: What about dogs?
By: Amadeus Date: March 31, 2015, 11:46 am
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[quote author=Mike link=topic=89.msg920#msg920 date=1427790784]
The 'beast' is that irrepressible factor, peculiar to each
species, to procreate and to survive.
'Man' is equipped with the additional factors of imagination,
reason, and choice, as a consequence of which he 'imagines'
various 'fictions' about God and Satan, together with theories
about various heavens, hell, etc., discovers 'facts' about our
Cosmos, and applies 'reason' which he chooses to adopt, or which
he hones, as discovery progresses.[/quote]
[font=courier]So then man is a mixture of the beast and
something better. When a man is really approaching God, I
believe that the "new inner man" [Jesus nature] is increasing
and the beast nature is decreasing toward what it should be. Too
many men emphasize the beast too much and/or mix up the
difference between the beast and what the man should be:
"Let not then your good be evil spoken of:" Rom 14:16
"And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom
the way of truth shall be evil spoken of." II Peter 2:2[/font]
[quote]Exactly like I have just done. (But at my age there's not
a lot of 'Beast' left in me.....except perhaps for a bit of
'beastly' cynicism.)
[/quote]
[font=courier]Don't believe that the beast gets weaker just
because the fleshly vessel is wearing out!
If you have less of the beast left than you once had it is, I
believe, because you have allowed God to give you increases
even as you have continued to "kill your beasts".[/font]
#Post#: 928--------------------------------------------------
Re: What about dogs?
By: Kerry Date: March 31, 2015, 9:07 pm
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[quote author=Amadeus link=topic=89.msg924#msg924
date=1427819735]
Consider also the words of Jesus with regard to coming to him as
children and these words: "For of such is the kingdom of God".
The untarnished, uncommitted child is really more like the
innocent lower animal. Then the child begins to learn the ways
of his elders and then down and down he goes. [/quote]Yes, and
when the point is reached that children could not make a choice
to choose good, action is taken by Heaven.
[quote]Perhaps if it were not for men and their ways the "other
animals" [usually perceived as lower by men]wouldn't need any
fixing. [/quote]That is what I believe. If all men had the
nature of the sheep, all would be well with the other animals.
[quote]If we throw into this mixture of information that "earth"
is what the natural man is, ["all are of the dust, and all turn
to the dust again"] then also will we better understand the
portion of the prayer you quoted above.
Then the question you raised in my mind if you didn't directly
express it: Apparently as terrible as things were prior to the
flood, are they not approaching the level of terribleness
today?[/quote]In one way, I'd say yes, but in another way, no.
Certain forces were restrained at the time of Noah which will
never be allowed to do what they did then; but the remaining
forces may be producing other evils that are worse in their
way.
[quote]Yes, some men are quick to praise the great wealth of
information amassed by men and technological advances made by
men, but those things are NOT winning the battles against his
"own inner beasts".[/quote]
Knowledge may increase but what good is that without wisdom?
Such knowledge can be a curse as it was in the days of Noah.
[quote author=Amadeus link=topic=89.msg925#msg925
date=1427820419]
So then man is a mixture of the beast and something better. When
a man is really approaching God, I believe that the "new inner
man" [Jesus nature] is increasing and the beast nature is
decreasing toward what it should be. [/quote]Yes, first is
bound, and then robbed, and finally killed. The eagles gather
around the carcase of the serpent. Jesus said "eagles" and
eagles is right -- not "vultures" as some translations have it.
If the beast nature becomes too strong, the Spirit deserts man.
"My Spirit will not always strive." Someone must make many,
many wrong decisions to allow that beast nature to get that
strong.
[quote]Too many men emphasize the beast too much and/or mix up
the difference between the beast and what the man should be:
"Let not then your good be evil spoken of:" Rom 14:16
"And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom
the way of truth shall be evil spoken of." II Peter 2:2
[/quote]Without the Spirit that makes man a spiritual Man (like
Adam, like the Son of Man), he is not one whit better than any
of the beasts. Indeed, he is worse. He is an abomination as
Jezebel was. The dogs would not eat her face or hands. He is
like Goliath with the mark of the beast all over him. He got
fed to the birds who cleaned the earth of his iniquity.
Notice Goliath's evil urge to corrupt the clean animals. He
said he would feed David to the "beasts of the field." He
wanted the clean animals to become meat eaters who would eat
David. David got the unclean birds to do what they had agreed
with God to do -- clean up the earth by taking some of its evil
on themselves. Goliath had the same goal the people had had in
the days of Noah, to corrupt all flesh.
In Genesis 40, the baker is beheaded and hanged and then fed to
the birds. The wine steward is forgiven and returned to his
place. I have a feeling this says something about the role of
the Bread and Wine in Communion. The old body is worthless.
The new body of man must be formed of the Bread that comes down
from Heaven. All we have is offered as a sacrifice -- but the
old bread is used to sustain other life, not our own. It seems
the old bread can be fed to the unclean birds and to the dogs,
but not the new bread.
[quote]Don't believe that the beast gets weaker just because the
fleshly vessel is wearing out! [/quote]In one way, it may seem
weaker, but that can make it angrier and more vicious.
[quote]If you have less of the beast left than you once had it
is, I believe, because you have allowed God to give you
increases even as you have continued to "kill your beasts".
[/quote]The lion is first recognized and then is transformed
into the lamb after it devours what needs to be devoured. Thus
Jesus is called both lion and lamb.
Genesis 49:9 Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son,
thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as
an old lion; who shall rouse him up?
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from
between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the
gathering of the people be.
Compare that passage to the one in Revelation where it's
announced that the Lion of Judah is worthy to open the Seals;
but no Lion is seen. No, the Lamb appears! Shiloh is come.
The Lion is no longer ruling. The Lamb is. This is a mystery
of sorts since Satan is also called a lion; but I'd say the
satanic devours what should not be devoured.
#Post#: 934--------------------------------------------------
Re: What about dogs?
By: Amadeus Date: April 1, 2015, 9:32 am
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[quote]Amadeus:
Then the question you raised in my mind if you didn't directly
express it: Apparently as terrible as things were prior to the
flood, are they not approaching the level of terribleness
today?[/quote]
[quote]Kerry:
In one way, I'd say yes, but in another way, no. Certain forces
were restrained at the time of Noah which will never be allowed
to do what they did then; but the remaining forces may be
producing other evils that are worse in their way.[/quote]
[font=courier]I believe you are correct. The devastation of the
flood was not for naught. Some things were done away with
permanently, but again, man is seemingly coming up with some
things that are worse.[/font]
[quote]Kerry:
In Genesis 40, the baker is beheaded and hanged and then fed to
the birds. The wine steward is forgiven and returned to his
place. I have a feeling this says something about the role of
the Bread and Wine in Communion. The old body is worthless.
The new body of man must be formed of the Bread that comes down
from Heaven. All we have is offered as a sacrifice -- but the
old bread is used to sustain other life, not our own. It seems
the old bread can be fed to the unclean birds and to the dogs,
but not the new bread.[/quote]
[font=courier]
This brings up some interesting things to chew on... Thanks for
sharing this![/font]
[quote]Amadeus:
Don't believe that the beast gets weaker just because the
fleshly vessel is wearing out![/quote]
[quote]Kerry:
In one way, it may seem weaker, but that can make it angrier and
more vicious.[/quote]
[font=courier]
Yes, the wrong kind of strength is for the moment strengthened.
The 'good' thing is that when the fleshly vessel wears out
completely there is no more resistance, there is no more memory,
there is no more evil activity on the part of that vessel. No
more time!
[/font]
[Quote]Amadeus:
If you have less of the beast left than you once had it is, I
believe, because you have allowed God to give you increases
even as you have continued to "kill your beasts".[/quote]
[quote]Kerry:
The lion is first recognized and then is transformed into the
lamb after it devours what needs to be devoured. Thus Jesus is
called both lion and lamb.
Genesis 49:9 Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son,
thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as
an old lion; who shall rouse him up?
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from
between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the
gathering of the people be.
Compare that passage to the one in Revelation where it's
announced that the Lion of Judah is worthy to open the Seals;
but no Lion is seen. No, the Lamb appears! Shiloh is come.
The Lion is no longer ruling. The Lamb is. This is a mystery
of sorts since Satan is also called a lion; but I'd say the
satanic devours what should not be devoured.[/quote]
[font=courier]More good food for thought![/font]
#Post#: 1300--------------------------------------------------
Re: What about dogs?
By: HappyHeretic Date: April 21, 2015, 8:46 am
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Col 1: 15 - 20 would seem to include dogs.
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over
all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in
heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or
powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created
through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him
all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the
church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the
dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For
God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and
through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things
on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood,
shed on the cross.
Mike HM
#Post#: 2027--------------------------------------------------
Re: What about dogs?
By: Twinc Date: May 23, 2015, 8:55 am
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[quote author=A Trusting Deist link=topic=89.msg894#msg894
date=1427660267]
Makes me think about all living creatures, and that in turn
causes me to think about those that are an indispensable part of
the food chain of other living creatures, which themselves are
part of the food chain of others, etc.
That should earn me a negative karma. :'(
[/quote]
but in the beginning it was not so - there were no carnivores
only herbivores and there is no longer karma for Christians but
the end of the road - and so what about dogs etc imho but
laughted to scorn our dogs will be in our heaven but not in
everyones heaven to scare them and make their heaven hell - we
have an inbuilt black box recording everything, so see no evil,
hear no evil,speak no evil ,do no evil - remember play back time
- twinc
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