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#Post#: 275--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: A nonny mouse Date: December 7, 2014, 8:43 am
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[quote author=Danger Mouse link=topic=6.msg269#msg269
date=1417957649]
The claim of Christianity is that we can all receive the Spirit
and that we do not need a set of rules. God's laws are to be
written on our hearts.
[/quote]
Steady on Dangerous Mouse you're stealing A nonny mouse's
cheese.
#Post#: 283--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: Helen Date: December 7, 2014, 10:24 am
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[quote]Quote Danger Mouse... If one truly has the Holy Spirit
guiding him, he knows how to love God and his neighbor. What
else is there? All the Law and Prophets were about was how to
love God and our neighbor. That is what Jesus is about too.
What else is there?
What is the difference then? We may need books to teach us if
we lack the Spirit to inform us -- Israel rejected God's Voice
at Sinai and got a set of rules instead. The claim of
Christianity is that we can all receive the Spirit and that we
do not need a set of rules. God's laws are to be written on our
hearts.
[/quote]
Excellent...well put...I couldn't have said it better. :)
The 'bold' above, is not something that many Christian really
GET!!!
THAT is the place when I believe , they were 'saying' in effect-
"Give us religion, we don't want a relationship, it is far too
personal."
Religion is always much easier...just follow the rules.
Come out of her My people...
#Post#: 295--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: Ezra Date: December 7, 2014, 2:11 pm
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[quote author=Danger Mouse link=topic=6.msg269#msg269
date=1417957649]
I'd say you're failing that passage. Paul is saying the reason
to read the Scriptures is so it encourages good works in us...
[/quote]
That's not all he's saying. Just as he puts doctrine first, he
also puts "that the man of God may be perfect" first. So
exactly what does that mean? It is the Greek word ARTIOS which
means "complete". So the next question is complete in what
sense? When we go to Eph 4:12 we see the connection: "For the
perfecting of the saints...". Here the Greek word is KATARTISMOS
which means to complete thoroughly or to furnish completely.
The context (Eph 4:11-16) shows us that the ministry gifts
(apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers) are give
to the Church to completely furnish every Christian with "the
knowledge of the Son of God" and this knowledge is to ensure
"That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and
carried about by every wind of DOCTRINE".
So we are back to doctrine as one aspect of the knowledge of the
Son of God. If Bible doctrine is important to God, then
Christians do not have the option of shrugging it off, and
saying "All you need is love". The real issue today is the
appalling apostasy that has crept into the churches, because
Bible doctrine has been neglected. In this context, there are
no apostles and prophets today, and those who make such claims
are bogus. We have the apostles and prophets in Scripture --
the complete written Word of God.
#Post#: 298--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: Kerry Date: December 7, 2014, 2:48 pm
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[quote author=Ezra link=topic=6.msg295#msg295 date=1417983095]
That's not all he's saying. Just as he puts doctrine first, he
also puts "that the man of God may be perfect" first. So
exactly what does that mean? It is the Greek word ARTIOS which
means "complete". So the next question is complete in what
sense? When we go to Eph 4:12 we see the connection: "For the
perfecting of the saints...". Here the Greek word is KATARTISMOS
which means to complete thoroughly or to furnish completely.
The context (Eph 4:11-16) shows us that the ministry gifts
(apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers) are give
to the Church to completely furnish every Christian with "the
knowledge of the Son of God" and this knowledge is to ensure
"That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and
carried about by every wind of DOCTRINE".[/quote]
You appear to be arguing against yourself now by talking about
the need for apostles, prophets, etc. If the Bible is to be our
sole guide to doctrine, what role would these people play?
[quote]So we are back to doctrine as one aspect of the knowledge
of the Son of God. If Bible doctrine is important to God, then
Christians do not have the option of shrugging it off, and
saying "All you need is love". The real issue today is the
appalling apostasy that has crept into the churches, because
Bible doctrine has been neglected.
[/quote]Of course, he puts it first. He was writing to people
still struggling to perfect themselves who can surely find the
Scriptures helpful. If Israel had been willing to hear the
Voice of God, they wouldn't have needed the Torah; but since
they didn't want to hear, they were given the Torah; and the
purpose of the Torah was to teach them -- they were to write it
on their hearts, weren't they?
[quote] In this context, there are no apostles and prophets
today, and those who make such claims are bogus. We have the
apostles and prophets in Scripture -- the complete written Word
of God.[/quote]
If we believe all we have is a book to guide us, no wonder
apostasy has crept into the church!
As for "all you need is love," Jesus said it, not me.
Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy
God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy
mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour
as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
And:
Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men
should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and
the prophets.
There Jesus is paraphrasing Rabbi Hillel who said: "That which
is hateful unto you do not do to your neighbor. This is the
whole of the Torah, The rest is commentary."
The matter is simple enough. Good doctrines produce good
fruits. Bad doctrines either produce bad fruits or no fruits.
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