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#Post#: 98--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: Amadeus Date: November 29, 2014, 10:47 am
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[quote author=Mighty Mouse link=topic=6.msg89#msg89
date=1417242970]
Sadly I find Mr. Edward's indictment of the early church to be a
tad short sighted and short on factual corroboration. The Jews
were very studious people and KNEW their scriptures. Paul
admonished all believers to study, as did Peter.[/quote]
[font=courier]Anytime any of us is harshly critical, (or even
not harshly) of others, we may be reaching into that area of the
mote in the other eye versus the beam in our own eye. I use the
word, "may", because certainly sometimes God does use one person
to speak to the error of another. We see many examples of this
especially in the OT. Before we speak, however, we really need
to be certain who it is that is leading us to speak. [/font]
[quote]If we don't know God's Word, how can we know we know God.
We need to know His written word before we can move on to
maturity as Luke wrote in Hebrews. Also I find his stats a tad
incredulous.[/quote]
[font=courier]Just a cautionary note on a conclusion made in the
above quote: I agree with the first sentence (underlined), but
for me the second sentence does not necessarily follow if by
"the written word", the Bible alone is intended. The Word of God
is certainly, by quickening of the Holy Spirit, is to be found
in the Bible, but that is not the only place as the Bible itself
shows in the OT when men who likely had no copy of written
scriptures did know something of God's Word. I also would be
very careful about citing such specific statistics without
giving a clear basis (references perhaps) for the numbers
given.[/font]
#Post#: 103--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: Stan Date: November 29, 2014, 2:17 pm
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=6.msg96#msg96 date=1417278871]
I can agree with comments in your post MM, and yes, we would be
fools not to study the bible, learn of God, know His Plan from
Gen - Rev. It was never God's intent that we have a
'relationship' with the bible as some people do,and then stop
there, smile, and be very happy with what "they know" . Those
people ( and we all know some) forget it is all about WHO we
know, really know, that is important ... not the amount of bible
we have learned, studied and can quote.
On the last Day, The Father wont be asking anyone how well they
knew the bible. He will know how well we knew HIM!!
[/quote]
I guess my point is that the more we know God's Word, the more
we know Him and vice-versa.
Psalm 119:11
#Post#: 107--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: Helen Date: November 29, 2014, 3:24 pm
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Good post John..and good points to think upon.
M.M. I will have to think more on your comment. At this point I
can see that by bible reading we FIRST come to know Him..I can
see that by bible reading we learn His ways, intent and Plan...I
am not yet convinced that by bible reading I can further get to
know Him. In Revelation Jesus over and over said
"Let Him who hath an ear to hear.." And while He walked tghe
earth, He was always telling them to HEAR.
Without a fine tuned hearing ear to His Holy Spirit ( our Guide
and Teacher) I am not persuaded that we can come to know Him
better by bible reading.
#Post#: 110--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: Stan Date: November 29, 2014, 5:31 pm
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Helen.... Rom 10:17
#Post#: 114--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: Ivor1 Date: November 29, 2014, 8:40 pm
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Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the
message is heard through the word about Christ
There is an inference that the scripture is talking about the
bible itself and that is the case but not solely and not
exclusively because people can carry the message without
scripture being available. The scripture is the final
qualification of things spoken. People without any knowledge of
scripture can become a law unto themselves without any reference
to scripture
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the
things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to
themselves,
We are made in Gods image so we have instinctive nature from God
that leads us, we can and do become callous and hardened to sin
that we don't feel remorse and then ignore our leading or we can
be guided by our own selfish heart but even this can be nudged
back into line by God by hearing the message in any manner of
communication. Reading the bible - reading any other book with
bible principles - hearing a preach - hymn - secular song with
bible principled merit - conviction from another's testimony
about God. Simply pondering about life and having a heart to
know of Him.
Having a heart for God is different to having a desire for the
knowledge about God, that's academia! Although one can lead to
the other knowledge alone about God is not the end of ones
journey, Having a relationship with God is!
#Post#: 115--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: Stan Date: November 29, 2014, 9:00 pm
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The two pretty much go hand in hand Ivor, just like love and
marriage.
#Post#: 136--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: Amadeus Date: November 30, 2014, 3:00 pm
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[quote author=Mighty Mouse link=topic=6.msg115#msg115
date=1417316449]
The two pretty much go hand in hand Ivor, just like love and
marriage.
[/quote]
[font=courier]As explained perhaps by these verses:
"...God
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not
of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but
the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:5-6
The letter of scripture without the Spirit is and will remain
dead and used while it is dead it can kill.
Love and marriage may make a good comparison in the perfect
sense, but how many marriages can we personally testify to as
having been based on perfect love?[/font]
#Post#: 140--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: Stan Date: November 30, 2014, 3:15 pm
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Very true, and IF a marriage is not based on love AND God then
it is likely to fail half the time as stats currently show.
Same thing with scripture...if it is not based on love and God,
the strict LETTER thereof won't save anyone.
#Post#: 262--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: Ezra Date: December 7, 2014, 12:50 am
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=6.msg32#msg32 date=1416978835]
[size=12pt][color=maroon] The idea that Bible study is an
absolute necessity to the Christian Life is so entrenched in the
mentality of the twentieth-century believer that to question it
is almost an invitation to be burned at the stake...[/quote]
Gene Edwards (or any Christian for that matter) must support his
thoughts with Scripture (which he has not done).
He suggests that Bible study is not an absolute necessity.
However, the Holy Spirit exhorts us that it is indeed an
absolute necessity (2 Timothy 2:15). Not only are we to study
the Word of Truth, we are to labour in it so that we can
interpret it correctly. Thus Mr. Edwards is already off the
mark.
[QUOTE]if you ever really get to know the Lord in a deep,
abiding experience, it will suddenly dawn on you that teaching
doctrines was something invented by men who just didn't know the
Lord all that well. Gene Edwards/ from " THE EARLY CHURCH"
[/QUOTE]
Once again, he is off the mark. We read in 2 Timothy 3:16,17:
"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable
for DOCTRINE, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in
righteousness. That the man of God may be perfect [complete],
throughly furnished unto all good works.
What we see here is that the Holy Spirit puts Bible doctrine at
the top of the list. Why? Because if we do not know the
doctrines of the faith, (a) we cannot "earnestly contend for the
faith once delivered to the saints" (Jude 1:3) and (b) we
ourselves will be "carried about by every wind of doctrine" (Eph
4:14).
Today, more than ever before, we need to know what we believe
and why we believe it, based upon the Word of God, not our own
ideas or inventions. Mr. Edwards has done a great disservice by
making such statements, since we live in the last days, and
there is more and more false doctrine being promoted.
#Post#: 269--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: Kerry Date: December 7, 2014, 7:07 am
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[quote author=Ezra link=topic=6.msg262#msg262 date=1417935037]
Once again, he is off the mark. We read in 2 Timothy 3:16,17:
"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable
for DOCTRINE, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in
righteousness. That the man of God may be perfect [complete],
throughly furnished unto all good works.[/quote]
I'd say you're failing that passage. Paul is saying the reason
to read the Scriptures is so it encourages good works in us.
Every time how we will be judged, it is the same: By our works,
by our deeds, by our words. Not by how much Bible study we
did, not by how many doctrines we learned. If a passage in the
Bible does not teach us something about love, we haven't
"gotten it" yet.
[quote]What we see here is that the Holy Spirit puts Bible
doctrine at the top of the list. Why? Because if we do not
know the doctrines of the faith, (a) we cannot "earnestly
contend for the faith once delivered to the saints" (Jude 1:3)
and (b) we ourselves will be "carried about by every wind of
doctrine" (Eph 4:14).[/quote]
And what might that "faith once delivered to the saints" be?
Learning that came from Bibles? You know it doesn't mean that.
Should we revise Acts to read that on Pentecost Peter stood up
and read from the Scriptures? Or that Paul preached to the
Athenians and told them to read the Bible? It didn't happen
that way. Faith comes by hearing.
Going back in time, we also see Abraham had no books to guide
him. He did fine. Faith does not depend on doctrines derived
from books.
My faith is in God alone, in His Perfection. The Bible speaks
about God, but the Bible is not God. There is no salvation in
the Bible. Jesus mocked the people who thought they could find
eternal life in the Scriptures. He was there in front of them
and they didn't recognize what they were seeing. What good had
reading the Scriptures done them then?
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye [b]think ye have
eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.[/b]
If one truly has the Holy Spirit guiding him, he knows how to
love God and his neighbor. What else is there? All the Law
and Prophets were about was how to love God and our neighbor.
That is what Jesus is about too. What else is there?
What is the difference then? We may need books to teach us if
we lack the Spirit to inform us -- Israel rejected God's Voice
at Sinai and got a set of rules instead. The claim of
Christianity is that we can all receive the Spirit and that we
do not need a set of rules. God's laws are to be written on our
hearts.
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