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#Post#: 32--------------------------------------------------
The Early Days
By: Helen Date: November 25, 2014, 11:13 pm
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Approximately eighty percent of the people who lived in the
Roman Empire could not read or write! So at least eighty percent
of the believers of the first century couldn't possibly have
studied the Scripture. Add to this the fact that the
overwhelming majority of believers were from among the poor,
almost none of whom could read, and the percentage of
illiterates in the first century church goes even higher. (The
idea that Bible study is an absolute necessity to the Christian
Life is so entrenched in the mentality of the twentieth-century
believer that to question it is almost an invitation to be
burned at the stake. Nonetheless, the fact remains that the
early church got by very well withoutever engaging in Bible
study ... twentieth century style. This fact is indisputable!)
Today well over 90% of the followers of Jesus Christ can read,
yet it would be fair to say that 99.999% of that score of
believers have no idea of how to walk in a deep experience of
Christ.
if you ever really get to know the Lord in a deep, abiding
experience, it will suddenly dawn on you that teaching doctrines
was something invented by men who just didn't know the Lord all
that well. Men who really know Christ well, will talk about
Christ. Men who don't .. they teach all sorts of interesting,
unimportant things. May you be a man who daily, deeply,
profoundly meets and experiences the Lord. Then you'll talk
about the same thing the Apostles did. In the first century, the
cutting-edge of the faith was to know and experience Christ.
Gene Edwards/ from "
THE EARLY CHURCH"
#Post#: 33--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: A nonny mouse Date: November 25, 2014, 11:27 pm
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That accords with my belief which I struggle to explain so
succinctly.
#Post#: 35--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: Poppy Date: November 26, 2014, 4:32 am
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I was just thinking similar thought earlier today. We don't
need knowledge we need Jesus. We don't need to understand
doctrines but only that he died to release us from the captivity
of sin. We don't need to delve and study deep spiritual matters
but just to walk humbly with our God.
#Post#: 50--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: Amadeus Date: November 26, 2014, 11:53 am
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[font=courier]Having Jesus is having knowledge! Some have more
or less than others because of where they are and where they
have already traveled and what they have eaten during their
travels. As for the necessity of reading scripture consider this
scripture:
"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes,
shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is
given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have
committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48
If a person is unable to read or is able to read but a written
Bible is not available, is he to do nothing? We must do what we
can do with what we have. I read the quoted verse to mean I must
use everything available to me to accomplish as much as I can of
what I can understand.
We generally speaking have more available to us in the way of
tools and experiences and writings than those who served God in
the "Early Days", so God will accordingly require more from us
as we progress in Him.
So is Bible study absolutely necessary? It is for me, but I can
only speak for me and from what I know or believe about where I
currently am. Others must speak from their own perspective as
well as they can. No one is the judge of this in the end of the
matter, but God.
[/font]
#Post#: 52--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: Edwin Date: November 26, 2014, 12:23 pm
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Thank you Helen for your topic.
You are of course correct, but I think I would be right in
saying that the vast majority would have no problem on hearing
the "Good news", which brings to mind.
Mat 22:33 And when the crowd heard it, they were astonished at
his teaching.
Eph 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been
predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things
according to the counsel of his will,
Eph 1:12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might
be to the praise of his glory.
Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the
gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with
the promised Holy Spirit,
Bless you.
Edwin.
#Post#: 56--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: Alfie Date: November 26, 2014, 1:43 pm
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=6.msg32#msg32 date=1416978835]
Approximately eighty percent of the people who lived in the
Roman Empire could not read or write! So at least eighty percent
of the believers of the first century couldn't possibly have
studied the Scripture. Add to this the fact that the
overwhelming majority of believers were from among the poor,
almost none of whom could read, and the percentage of
illiterates in the first century church goes even higher. (The
idea that Bible study is an absolute necessity to the Christian
Life is so entrenched in the mentality of the twentieth-century
believer that to question it is almost an invitation to be
burned at the stake. Nonetheless, the fact remains that the
early church got by very well withoutever engaging in Bible
study ... twentieth century style. This fact is indisputable!)
Today well over 90% of the followers of Jesus Christ can read,
yet it would be fair to say that 99.999% of that score of
believers have no idea of how to walk in a deep experience of
Christ.
if you ever really get to know the Lord in a deep, abiding
experience, it will suddenly dawn on you that teaching doctrines
was something invented by men who just didn't know the Lord all
that well. Men who really know Christ well, will talk about
Christ. Men who don't .. they teach all sorts of interesting,
unimportant things. May you be a man who daily, deeply,
profoundly meets and experiences the Lord. Then you'll talk
about the same thing the Apostles did. In the first century, the
cutting-edge of the faith was to know and experience Christ.
Gene Edwards/ from "
THE EARLY CHURCH"
[/quote]
by helen from you can call me Al
Well I can't feel that I agree....becuase it was "that kind of
stuff" and the discussions, which started me off in getting
interested in the 'things of the Lord.'
For me, it didn't even start with "Jesus" ...I thought that God
was God, and Jesus was a baby that He sent here...Jesus was for
Sunday School...I had no clue who Jesus was at all!!
My search was always to 'know the Father', not Jesus.
I was never interested much in Jesus, not even in sunday
school....that is why it was quite the shock when I heard an old
Pastor preach on Jesus, and He being the Way to the Father!!
if you ever really get to know the Lord in a deep, abiding
experience, it will suddenly dawn on you that teaching doctrines
was something invented by men who just didn't know the Lord all
that well. Men who really know Christ well, will talk about
Christ. Men who don't .. they teach all sorts of interesting,
unimportant things.
this is why i joined this group;
it was to see my good friend Helen again
when talking with her i always 8) smile
she always brings out that part
of what i have said
that too
is part of the story
in the quote she posted ; GENE EDWARDS has hinted to the fact
that "bible study" or better and more precisely the theological
thought is not as important as the "walk with Jesus"
but in this quote there is something else that is brought out as
well.
doctrines.... and that the teaching of them may be man made
but more importantly are doctrines the story?
the son of God left heaven and
came to earth in order to set up doctrines? he understood that
while he trained and worked with Moses that he wasn't the guy to
bring forth such doctrines ; so that he personally came himself
to set forth such doctrines by men who came long after his death
and Resurrection and long after the "apostles" {"who being men
only , also had their own thoughts"--- as we see their
disagreements aka; the council of Jerusalem}--- so sarcastically
this isn't the story!!!
stories and family stories;
Jesus said things in
parables; every one who was around could hear them;
but those outside the family heard one thing and family heard
the same story but because of their family background would
understand something beyond the story
example ; the widow and two coins
the story is there for all to read ; anyone one can read or be
told the story
but someone in the family { someone who has been drawn to read
and listen to the whole "family" story} in time will come to the
ability to answer the questions i pose below
- who is the widow ?
- who was her husband?
- who is her sister?
- what is her marriage status?
- what is the difference in location of the two sisters ?
- what are the 2 coins?
like i said; anyone can read the text; but only someone {family}
can answer these !
* and not everyone in the family has
heard this story ; but it is one of those "family" stories
* and Jesus said it for his "family" ---
not for doctrine
bible study can be one of two things
1- it can be used as material for supporting our agendas
2- it can tell the story
which one of the two do you think Jesus came for?
#Post#: 65--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: Ivor1 Date: November 27, 2014, 9:17 am
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I'm with Amadeus ;) for me personally studying the bible is
important to sort my dilemmas where my heart leads me in one
direction and my spirit is in confusion. It is the yardstick of
measure for all things in my life. I don't always do right but I
know when I'm doing wrong because of it.
We are not all studious by nature and that is fine but to imply
that studying Gods word can be anything but beneficial seems odd
as Kings were commanded to study it
"Now it shall come about when he sits on the throne of his
kingdom, he shall write for himself a copy of this law on a
scroll in the presence of the Levitical priests. 19"It shall be
with him and he shall read it all the days of his life, that he
may learn to fear the LORD his God, by carefully observing all
the words of this law and these statutes,
#Post#: 72--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: Helen Date: November 28, 2014, 9:02 am
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I agree Ivor, it is "important" ...we need the story...we need
the plan, we need the road map...we need the love letter... But,
I do not believe that it was ever God Plan to have a
relationship with His Bride via "the bible" never!!
From the beginning, when He walked and talked in the Garden...a
personal living 'heart to heart' ( deep caleth unto deep)
relationship with mankind is what He intends.
If we don't know how to hear from Him, if we don't know how to
commun with Him...then we better just read the bible and at
least remeind ourselves of His intent, love, goodness,
faithfulness etc
He uses it, speaks through it, as we do as we type on the
computer, as we do in writing letters...but it has never been
how He intends to speak to man...be it Abraham , Moses, Paul etc
etc..
The whole reason for everything is a living relationship, and
two way vital relationship. And that can never be "via the
bible"....God forbid that the sons of God just settle with just
that!!
Many people would much rather have a relationship with the
bible, than have a relationship with God..it's much easier! It
takes much less time.
"For as many as are LED BY THE SPIRIT of God, THESE are the
sons of God."
#Post#: 89--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: Stan Date: November 29, 2014, 12:36 am
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Sadly I find Mr. Edward's indictment of the early church to be a
tad short sighted and short on factual corroboration. The Jews
were very studious people and KNEW their scriptures. Paul
admonished all believers to study, as did Peter.
I also find it rather hypocritical to say what he did in the
last paragraph of this quote and be the author of 35 books on
how to be a better Christian. There seems to be a disconnect
here, and I'm not sure if it's apathy or age related.
If we don't know God's Word, how can we know we know God. We
need to know His written word before we can move on to maturity
as Luke wrote in Hebrews. Also I find his stats a tad
incredulous.
#Post#: 96--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Early Days
By: Helen Date: November 29, 2014, 10:34 am
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I can agree with comments in your post MM, and yes, we would be
fools not to study the bible, learn of God, know His Plan from
Gen - Rev. It was never God's intent that we have a
'relationship' with the bible as some people do,and then stop
there, smile, and be very happy with what "they know" . Those
people ( and we all know some) forget it is all about WHO we
know, really know, that is important ... not the amount of bible
we have learned, studied and can quote.
On the last Day, The Father wont be asking anyone how well they
knew the bible. He will know how well we knew HIM!!
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