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#Post#: 747--------------------------------------------------
Re: Can we be believers today?
By: Kerry Date: March 16, 2015, 2:47 pm
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[quote author=Piper link=topic=55.msg746#msg746 date=1426379189]
That evil exists can not be denied. That evil invades the
hearts of men can not be denied. That some men choose to reject
good, to reject mercy, to reject God, can not be denied.
[/quote]
It can also not be denied that darkness exists; but what is it?
Is it the presence of something, or is it like darkness, the
absence of something real?
[quote]We make our choices.
God is just. Love can be no other way. If there are losses, it
is not that God has forsaken men, but that men have forsaken
God.
Jesus preached repentance from the very beginning of His
ministry. He warned His listeners, " . . . unless you repent,
you too will all perish." Some will not repent.[/quote]I see
repentance as like someone who realizes he's been stumbling
around in the darkness. The concept of light tells him if he
can get some light, maybe he can stop stumbling.
Does evil work? Does hate work? I don't think so; and the sane
thing to do is to give up trying to make them work. Evil and
hate seem to work -- yes, look around -- the illusion is that
they work -- but the heart, if it retains anything of the child
about it, is dissatisfied with the perceived "wins" obtained by
evil and hate. It is nothing at best, bitterness at worst.
[quote]We choose whom we serve. God is not at fault if some
refuse Him. It is man who chooses darkness over light. The
children of darkness make their choice. The children of light
are drawn to the Light.
The world is much darker than we care to
acknowlege.[/quote]Agree. It is dark indeed; but again that is
the absence of the Light of God. When men do not invite God
into the world, it remains dark.
[quote]Salvation belongs to the Lord. God will save whom He
will. He is mighty to save.
Yet, He also says, "Vengeance is mine." Jesus warned about the
One who can destroy both soul and body.
God refines those who choose Him. If God were going to force
refinement even on those who reject all that is good, it seems
He would have used force from the beginning--but there would be
no love. No one can force anyone to love, not even God. To
love is a choice.[/quote]My own belief is that the ability to
love is the only ability God gave us all. We are enough like
Him that we can choose to love on our own steam without any help
from any other person or even without help from God. It is the
one thing we can do on our own. I believe if we choose to
love, we become more like God. If we choose not to, we become
less like Him. I don't care what people believe or think they
believe -- I think God always rewards people when they love by
making them more like Him and drawing them in the right
direction. God is faithful and perfectly Just in this; but it
is impossible for men to discern it all since we cannot discern
the inner thoughts of others as God does.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath
sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Does this mean Calvinists are right? I don't think so. I think
it means we cannot save ourselves under our own steam. But
when we choose the path of Love, then I believe God will draw
us in the right direction. Still something appears to have
changed as a result of what Jesus did since he said:
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw
all men unto me.
He could exert influence on all men, even those the Father had
not drawn and those who were so sunk in darkness, the idea of
God was alien to them.
I think the following verse explains the apparent
contradiction.
James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.
Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye
double minded.
We may not get too far on our own efforts by trying to draw nigh
unto God; but that is not an excuse. I believe God expects us
to try; and if we are willing to do what we can, we can then
count on Him to help. I also think of God as being somewhat
like the earthly parent who's worried about his child learning
to walk or ride a bicycle. Parents may worry about what will
happen if the child falls; but if they want the child to learn,
they let go at some point. Thus I believe sometimes when we
think God isn't helping us, it's because He thinks we're ready
to learn something.
#Post#: 748--------------------------------------------------
Re: Can we be believers today?
By: Colin Feener Date: March 16, 2015, 8:55 pm
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Oh Wow, i people only knew how much those words mean to me, and
to give it all up. And then never turn back.It means a totally
different thing to me then the others. Even how people believe
Jesus is the son of God and God so loved the world , he gave us
his son and all that believe in him will be saved.
First off, I believe that to be a believer, you have to
believe in Jesus, the son of the living God. People see him as
the carpenters son or the prophet. Jesus the nazarene, the king.
Lots of different things but you have to see him as the son of
God. When he was on top of the mountain with the few disciples,
white as snow, brilliant white, there God said, this is my son.
When he rose up out of the water after John baptized him and
John said he heard God speak, this is my son. I see him threw
the eyes of the spirit and there I hear God say, this is my son.
Flesh and blood prophet nothing but the Spirit. Then the trinity
is showing, The father , the old testament , the son , the new
testament and the Spirit, teaching and helping us understand,
then the trinity is working and we see him threw the eyes of God
and he is then the Christ, Jesus , the Christ, Jesus Christ and
then we believe and for that I give it all up. Turn away fron
the old man, repent of that stuff and turn to God and be as
radical as any man could ever be. Then I am a believer and so I
am. Loving the Lord at all times.
#Post#: 749--------------------------------------------------
Re: Can we be believers today?
By: Helen Date: March 16, 2015, 9:18 pm
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[quote]Quote Danger Mouse. The idea of having only two classes
of people strikes me as naive. We will all be rewarded
according to our words and deeds. Any attempt to get around
this is an attempt to say God is not Just. God is perfectly
Just.
People may wish to dodge the issue, but they do so at their own
peril. In the New Testament when the Last Judgment is
discussed, we are often told how we will all be judged by our
words and deeds. Let us not try to squirm out of it.
It is God's Will, of course, that no one perish, so He is
longsuffering. My own belief is that only a small handful of
people will be completely "rejected" in the end.
[/quote]
I believe that there will be many classes of people...not only
two!!
You say that you believe that only a small handful of people
will be completely rejected in the end.
What kind of rejection? Not in the inner circle, or the circle
within the circle..? or right outside the City?
For how long?
#Post#: 751--------------------------------------------------
Re: Can we be believers today?
By: Kerry Date: March 17, 2015, 6:10 am
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=55.msg749#msg749 date=1426558704]
I believe that there will be many classes of people...not only
two!!
You say that you believe that only a small handful of people
will be completely rejected in the end.
What kind of rejection? Not in the inner circle, or the circle
within the circle..? or right outside the City?
For how long?
[/quote]i believe it's almost impossible to be completely
rejected in the end. One has to know what he's doing. One has
to know the truth fully and then willfully reject it. As long
as men do not know all the truth, their sins can be excused as
sins of ignorance. Once enlightened however, they are in the
perilous position of rejecting the truth and returning like the
dog to its vomit. Few do this; but there are some men who
having been blessed by God in every way at the last minute see
themselves as grander than their fellow men and wish to retain
that feeling of superiority. Their goal is to rule over others,
not use the gifts God gave them to help others. Thus they
rebel against God, loving neither God nor their fellow man.
Self becomes their god. In a way, they are right to see
themselves as godlike. Certainly God blessed them so greatly,
it is right to see them as godlike. What they do not see
however is that every other person in this world has the same
potential.
I believe it is God's unfaithful servants who will suffer the
direst punishment. I would say the worst fate is the outer
darkness. The person who is godlike and blessed with so many
things including immortality can decide he's "the only one." He
wants to be god in his own little universe. While the body is
alive, he's anchored to this world; but when that body dies,
he is spiritually propelled into exactly what he craved: His
own little universe where he is "the only one." He has his
immortality, but he is alone out in the middle of nowhere. Is
he really immortal? He could be if he remains true to the rules
he wrote for himself -- but if he gives off any love or caring,
has any emotion at all, he weakens. He emits some of the
Spiritual Light he craved to box up and own. So as time
passes, he dwindles down; and he finally goes out of existence;
and the Spiritual Light he had once has all returned to God. I
believe this can happen now.
I do not think the Lake of Fire is around now but will come into
being later. Its flames are the Sacred Flames of Love just
as the current Gehinnom or purgatory. Harmless to a saint, but
lethal to the person who hates. Again some perish completely,
they can go out of existence as individuals; but all that they
once were ascends to God upwards in the Flames. Some will
suffer only damage here and there. Body and soul can be
destroyed but not the spirit. They may regret this so we could
say they are being "punished" eternally; but their punishment is
really only the regret of knowing they could have done better.
The difference, as I see it, between the Lake of Fire and
Gehinnom is that what is burned away in this age by the Sacred
Flames in Gehinnom can be regrown. The worthless wood is
burned away, allowing the person to grow new wood; but after the
Lake of Fire, it will be too late to do this. Anyone who is not
whole will remain not whole. The whole world can't wait to
accommodate a few laggards. When the world as a whole is ready
to be transformed, there will some casualities of people who
postponed things too long -- all through the Millennium.
Are there spirits now in chains, awaiting destruction?
Unfortunately yes. These spirits led the world into great
disaster by deceiving people; and the day must come when the
human race is ready to choose to reject them. At the moment,
mankind is not capable of making an informed decision. If
those spirits were let loose now, they'd wreck the world for
sure. We must go through the Thousand Year Reign first so
everyone knows the truth; and then it will be safe to set this
pack of diabolical spirits loose. If anyone chooses to follow
them then, they will know better. I feel confident few people
will choose to follow them once they have been instructed in the
Truth and perceive the Love of God. It's a sad situation that
these wicked spirits can't be done away with now; but they
created the situation, and they need to be around until mankind
is ready to reject them and choose the good. God does not allow
us to be tempted beyond what we can bear and master -- thus they
are in prison until man is mature and informed enough to face
the temptation and come out with victory.
That is what I believe.
#Post#: 753--------------------------------------------------
Re: Can we be believers today?
By: Helen Date: March 17, 2015, 9:02 am
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Thanks Kerry...I enjoyed reading that. I'm not sure I have ever
read what you believe before...or how you see things....not in
that much depth anyway! :) I love seeing how other people
think and believe..and "how they got there" in their belief
system.
We are all so different, and God made us all that way...free.
He is such a loving Father and does not control what we each
believe...it will be interesting at the end to see what parts we
got right and how much we got wrong.
I believe some things don't matter...God is a heart God, a
farmer of hearts as it were...other things are of vital
importance.
Thanks for sharing that.....H
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