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#Post#: 544--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: Kerry Date: December 21, 2014, 8:02 am
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I have another question. How many people here believe Jesus did
return in the First Century and the end of that world came?
Most people I have met don't believe that although Jesus said
it.
Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these
things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one
stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came
unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?
and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the
world?
The rest of the chapter is an answer to their question; and that
includes the reference to Noe:
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the
Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were
eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the
day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so
shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
I tell you all that the end of the came and Jesus did return;
and if you don't believe it, then you do not understand the
manner in which these things occurred; and if you do not
understand those things, why would you think you understand the
Flood of Noah?
#Post#: 545--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: Ivor1 Date: December 21, 2014, 8:26 am
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I certainly don't recall the the "end of the world" coming......
This is paradise?
#Post#: 546--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: Kerry Date: December 21, 2014, 8:45 am
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[quote author=Ivor1 link=topic=42.msg545#msg545 date=1419171962]
I certainly don't recall the the "end of the world" coming......
This is paradise?
[/quote]If it didn't, then Jesus was lying or mistaken and the
Apostles were also.
Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the
kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The
kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
That world ended just as previous worlds ended and another world
came into being.
Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were
framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were
not made of things which do appear.
Things can happen and no one seems to notice.
[quote]As you say my faith and trust in Jesus may be too
simplistic, although you may imagine i could be offended by that
comment I actually see it as a complement. Principles are
wonderful in their simplicity because we have a God thing inside
of us (made in Gods image) that "gets" principles.[/quote]
The simple is supposed to be made wise.
Psalm 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul:
the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the
commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
#Post#: 550--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: Helen Date: December 21, 2014, 12:15 pm
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No, I don't believe we have see those things fulfilled...He
returned in The Spirit..." If I don't go He can't come.." He
came without observation , except a few "drunk in the Spirit"
men on Pentecost.
I have a friend who believes that the Millennium reign is
already happening!! ...how I don't know...as I see no evidence
of "peace reigning in the world".. yet!! ::)
He believes this because of "a thousand years as a day, and a
day as a thousand years"...I do too...or did.
Which I can see puts us in the seventh thousandth year...but as
Ivor says...I see no reign of glory...I see no paradise here! I
see no glorious resurrection...
If this is "it"....then we have all been hood winked and "are of
all men most miserable."
#Post#: 551--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: Kerry Date: December 21, 2014, 12:54 pm
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=42.msg550#msg550 date=1419185719]
No, I don't believe we have see those things fulfilled...He
returned in The Spirit..." If I don't go He can't come.." He
came without observation , except a few "drunk in the Spirit"
men on Pentecost.
I have a friend who believes that the Millennium reign is
already happening!! ...how I don't know...as I see no evidence
of "peace reigning in the world".. yet!! ::)
He believes this because of "a thousand years as a day, and a
day as a thousand years"...I do too...or did.
Which I can see puts us in the seventh thousandth year...but as
Ivor says...I see no reign of glory...I see no paradise here! I
see no glorious resurrection...
If this is "it"....then we have all been hood winked and "are of
all men most miserable."
[/quote]Rip that page out of your Bible then.
I mentioned two things that happened because that is what Jesus
mentioned: His coming and the end of the world. You and Ivor
start talking about paradise? The resurrection? The reign of
glory? What brought all these things to your minds?
I'm surprised no one started talking about the antichrist! It's
amazing to me how people lump so many things together! As if
different words might not mean different things!
It appears that you and Ivor do not believe what Jesus said
about the end of the world and his return. It doesn't fit
into your scheme of things. I tell you both you are following
a tradition of men, with the blind leading the blind.
I tell you Jesus said all those things would happen before the
destruction of the Temple, and they did all happen. I will post
another thread about the end of the age telling you what other
pages you and Ivor need to rip out of your Bibles. Of course,
no one will answer me fully. Someone may start, but no one
seems willing to deal with things to a final conclusion.
Why read the Bible if we don't believe it? Ivor seemed shocked
because I didn't believe the speech by Stephen wasn't true,
because I thought someone added it to the book of Acts. Now
it's my turn to be shocked by how you and Ivor recklessly
reject what Jesus said. You can't see paradise, so what Jesus
said must have been wrong, eh?
#Post#: 553--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: Kerry Date: December 21, 2014, 1:16 pm
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[quote author=A nonny mouse link=topic=42.msg541#msg541
date=1419164294]
No probs Ivor...after all this is not meant to be an 'amen, I
agree' forum.
[/quote]I think Ivor has a problem since he's doing what he
just criticized you for.
Proverbs 26:27 Whoso diggeth a pit shall fall therein: and he
that rolleth a stone, it will return upon him.
If Ivor wants to use colorful language about what Jesus said
about Noah and the Flood, then I think others should get just as
colorful when he rejects something else Jesus said in the same
speech.
#Post#: 554--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: Helen Date: December 21, 2014, 5:29 pm
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[quote]Quote DM
Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the
kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The
kingdom of God cometh not with observation:[/quote]
OKay...are we talking about the Kingdom of God, or are we
talking about the return of the Lord?
[quote]DM..I have another question. How many people here
believe Jesus did return in the First Century and the end of
that world came? Most people I have met don't believe that
although Jesus said it.[/quote]
I took it that you were talking about the 'return of the Lord.'
I agree...the kingdom is within us, as Jesus said ( only seen by
demonstrtion)...I was thinking about the FINAL coming of Jesus
as LORD and KING. Not "by the Spirit" but as the risen,
glorious, Lord!
I will have to go back and read the whole thread from the
beginning again. I have obviously got lost somewhere along the
way.
#Post#: 555--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: Ivor1 Date: December 21, 2014, 8:06 pm
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DM you tell us to rip the page from the bible and that seems to
be a habit ripping out and discarding verses. I'll take it as a
whole thankyou even the parts you discard and yes i do try to
reason on your wavelength and get the point you are making but
If Jesus 2nd coming came and every eye didn't see and the
scriptureS yet to be fulfilled with regard to the Jews didn't
happen then what did?
Obviously no rapture which I have no view for or against its not
anything I personally can choose or not choose it will happen or
not happen ...... or in your case (past tense) has or has not
happened
DM on a side issue I have had my disagreements with Mike many
times but the quality nugget that always lingers from Mike is
that admits he may not be right, I've said on many occasions I
stand on the faith and understanding I have today but that may
change tomorrow by new revelation and has done throughout my
whole life so I have many regrets at teaching wrong thoughts and
I know that some things I'm doubly sure of today will be wrong
tomorrow when that new revelation hits home.
How about you DM are you ever not right?
#Post#: 557--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: HappyHeretic Date: December 22, 2014, 5:41 am
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=42.msg535#msg535 date=1419018404]
Come come HH....I can't let that one go by!!! ;D
You say how could they build a boat with out today's
know-how...etc
Then how on earth did they build the great pyramid ..which is
totally North, south east and west...to the half inch ? They
even allowed for the curvature of the earth on the sixteen acres
that it covers. The very centre of the pyramid is the very
centre of latitude and longitude...of the whole earth.....I
forget how large each block is...but each was huge.
Noah's boat is nothing...GOD was the architect of both.
As our good friend Jeremiah said : Behold, I am the Lord, the
God of all flesh..is there anything to hard for Me? ",. Maybe we
should take a poll of the members entitled..."How big is your
God?"
I see some have a very small God indeed!! :D
[/quote]
Hmm. And the structure of wood managed to change in the few
1000 years. Wood isn't strong enough for a boat of that size.
Which may just mean the size of boat in the Bible is wrong.
Anyway, there are plenty more problems with the story I posted
these over at Living Waters (keeping up with 3 forums is hard
work!)
Lack of Evidence for a Global Flood Where we Would Expect it.
A global flood would have produce evidence contrary to the
evidence we see.
Why is there no evidence of a flood in ice core series? Ice
cores from Greenland have been dated back more than 40,000 years
by counting annual layers. Why doesn't evidence for the flood
show up?
Why did the Flood not leave traces on the sea floors? A year
long flood should be recognizable in sea bottom cores. Why do
none of these show up?
Why is there no evidence of a flood in tree ring dating? Tree
ring records go back more than 10,000 years, with no evidence of
a catastrophe during that time.
How are the polar ice caps even possible? Such a mass of water
as the Flood would have provided sufficient buoyancy to float
the polar caps off their beds and break them up. They wouldn't
regrow quickly.
Survival Problems
How did all the modern plant species survive?
- Many plants (seeds and all) would be killed by being submerged
for a few months. This is especially true if they were soaked in
salt water.
- Most seeds would have been buried under many feet (even miles)
of sediment. This is deep enough to prevent spouting.
How did all the fish survive? Some require cool clear water,
some need brackish water, some need ocean water, some need water
even saltier. A flood would have destroyed at least some of
these habitats.
How did predators survive? How could more than a handful of the
predator species on the ark have survived, with only two
individuals of their prey to eat?
How did animals get to their present ranges? How did koalas get
from Ararat to Australia, polar bears to the Arctic, etc., when
the kinds of environment they require to live does not exist
between the two points. How did so many unique species get to
remote islands?
Historical Problems
How did the human population rebound so fast? Genealogies in
Genesis put the Tower of Babel about 110 to 150 years after the
Flood (Gen 10:25; 11:10-19). How did the world population regrow
so fast to make its construction (and the city around it)
possible? Similarly, there would have been very few people
around to build Stonehenge and the Pyramids, rebuild the
Sumerian and Indus Valley civilizations, populate the Americas,
etc.
Kind regards,
Mike HH
#Post#: 558--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: HappyHeretic Date: December 22, 2014, 5:51 am
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[quote author=James link=topic=42.msg533#msg533 date=1419017318]
[size=14pt]Quote from M H -There are technical difficulties
Surely there are technical difficulties to a lot of things in
the bible, but they are overcome because "the Lord build the
house" not us, albeit in this case a house boat.
The eye of faith looks not at the problem but at the God who
commands, obedience to God gets the job done.[-/size]
[/quote]
There are - there are too many on this one for me to accept
without question.
I fully believe that floating axe-heads happened as did dead
bodies coming to life when another dead body touched it. I
fully believe that the read sea parted completely and that Jesus
came back from teh dead and ascended into heaven. All that I
accept without proof.
However, you are asking me to believe in a global flood when
there is so much factual knowledge against it.
There may be simple explanations for all of the objections
listed. I haven't found them yet.
I have a good friend who is a Ken Ham devotee - we do chat about
this stuff from time to time, so I'm not ignorant of the issues.
Regards,
Mike HH
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