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#Post#: 528--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: Amadeus Date: December 19, 2014, 8:19 am
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[quote author=Patrick link=topic=42.msg527#msg527
date=1418994163]
DO IT ;POST IT "LOL"
I JUST DON'T WANT TO BE THE ONLY ONE WITH A PAPER TORN UP ----
8)
[/quote]
[font=courier]I like your "paper torn up" expression. Is that
what we sometimes do others in places such as this? Someone
works so hard to express himself carefully (and convince others
he's right?) and the end result is shredded or at least
something in that direction.
I remember when I was in college and I frequently had to write
papers in Spanish. Usually they came back covered with
cross-outs and inserted suggestions from the instructor in red
or in other bright colors to be certain I took note and
hopefully did better the next time.
As to the flood, who can we trust on that one? God we can trust
to speak to us through things to get his point across. This, of
course, doesn't make it a historical fact, does it? Whatever the
Bible is, it is hardly a history book anymore than it is a
science book, although it seems to speaks to us about both of
those things.
Do many or any such written things (in scripture) have some
factual basis? Without water we will die, but too much water
will kill us anyway. Without blood, we have no life, but we are
not to drink the blood if we want to live. What did Noah and
animals in the ark drink? Did they carry their own water or did
they get their drinking water from outside of the boat?[/font]
#Post#: 529--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: HappyHeretic Date: December 19, 2014, 8:28 am
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[quote author=A nonny mouse link=topic=42.msg524#msg524
date=1418992521]
But my problem is that I have met such people who have ended up
as certified maniacs....and I could see no evidence to suggest
that they should have been regarded otherwise (and you'll find
most of them amongst the 'charismatics').
[/quote]
Haha - charismatics are blamed for a lot of things.
Of the people I have known who have heard the voice of God -
none are any more mad than the rest of human kind :)
Interestingly, well, to me anyway, I have a principle about
hearing God that I go by. Not hard and fast, but in the main.
The principle is that "it take faith to hear God".
There is not much faith needed if you hear a booming voice that
makes you jump out of your socks with surprise. When I hear
God, it is usually a quite internal voice, or a picture (a bit
like Amos and the basket of summer fruit) or something like
that. It is rarely loud and rarely christal clear and usually
requires me to tease a message out of it. (God has never
dictated a prophetic word to me).
The teasin out the meaning is an act of faith.
Regards,
Mike HM
#Post#: 533--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: James Date: December 19, 2014, 1:28 pm
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[size=14pt]Quote from M H -There are technical difficulties
Surely there are technical difficulties to a lot of things in
the bible, but they are overcome because "the Lord build the
house" not us, albeit in this case a house boat.
The eye of faith looks not at the problem but at the God who
commands, obedience to God gets the job done.[-/size]
#Post#: 535--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: Helen Date: December 19, 2014, 1:46 pm
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Come come HH....I can't let that one go by!!! ;D
You say how could they build a boat with out today's
know-how...etc
Then how on earth did they build the great pyramid ..which is
totally North, south east and west...to the half inch ? They
even allowed for the curvature of the earth on the sixteen acres
that it covers. The very centre of the pyramid is the very
centre of latitude and longitude...of the whole earth.....I
forget how large each block is...but each was huge.
Noah's boat is nothing...GOD was the architect of both.
As our good friend Jeremiah said : Behold, I am the Lord, the
God of all flesh..is there anything to hard for Me? ",. Maybe we
should take a poll of the members entitled..."How big is your
God?"
I see some have a very small God indeed!! :D
#Post#: 536--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: A nonny mouse Date: December 19, 2014, 4:08 pm
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I expect we've all got it
wrong
HTML http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo29/pigletmph/zadiffgrouphug.gifincluding<br
/>(or even 'especially') me.
#Post#: 538--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: Ivor1 Date: December 21, 2014, 2:02 am
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with regard to the boat of Noah... everything built on this
planet from the smallest rowing boat to the floating palaces of
the sea, from a small timber shed to the biggest cities of the
world are built by man.
I have been a builder for 30 years and recently built a very
small extension on a friends house but there is no end the the
scale of building I can build.
If I was asked to build a boat and given the knowledge required
to build a small boat then surely the same principles would
apply and i'd have the skills to build a large boat
If Jesus believed in Moses and Moses wrote about the flood and
we call Moses words lies meaning we are fools for believing them
then I'll be a fool because I too believe that Moses words were
inspired of God
"For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote
about Me". John 5 46
he did not say "For if you believed [size=18pt]"that liar"
Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me " for
obvious reasons because then Moses could not be trusted if Jesus
did not trust all of his words to be true
Anyone convicted of lying as no credence in any other testimony
they speak of therefore the connotations that Moses is a liar
reaches through time to Jesus in John 5 46 because Jesus "did"
trust Moses's words as evidence for himself and that leads all
the way up to our time and our faith in Jesus speaking truth
too!
Faith in scripture is not such blind faith as some people
imagine it to be. My Jesus is love and love never fails
therefore because Jesus always speaks truth, I therefore always
believe it. This is relational between Jesus and me but may not
be rational to the lastest thinking of others [/size]
#Post#: 539--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: A nonny mouse Date: December 21, 2014, 2:54 am
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[quote author=Ivor1 link=topic=42.msg538#msg538 date=1419148962]
with regard to the boat of Noah... everything built on this
planet from the smallest rowing boat to the floating palaces of
the sea, from a small timber shed to the biggest cities of the
world are built by man.
I have been a builder for 30 years and recently built a very
small extension on a friends house but there is no end the the
scale of building I can build.
If I was a boat builder surely the same principles would apply
If Jesus believed in Moses and Moses wrote about the flood and
we call Moses words lies meaning we are fools for believing them
then I'll be a fool because I too believe that Moses words were
inspired of God
"For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote
about Me". John 5 46
he did not say "For if you believed [size=18pt]"that liar"
Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me " for
obvious reasons because then Moses could not be trusted if Jesus
did not trust all of his words to be true[/size]
[/quote]
Far too simplistic IMO.
Here's my attempt to get closer to the facts in FSCF:-
[quote author=Helen link=topic=1880.msg22625#msg22625
date=1419112909]
I must admit David. Deborah has a point.
[/quote]
I guess everybody has a point (even including me).
Is not 'man' a mortal being made up of the five senses that we
as mortals can understand and describe simply because we
experience them in tangible ways?
Whereas God, being GOD, is not mortal.
But us mortals do also seem to have an intangible 'sixth sense'
that we use or ignore to suit ourselves.
Those who do use their intangible sixth sense do so to create
God based religions, to dabble in the occult, to cultivate
paranormal illusions, and to suggest every other means of adding
to the five sense of mortality that end with clinical death.
And has not that always been the case since mankind's earliest
existence?
Some of us who create God based religions (and that includes me)
do so in the form of 'Christianity'.
My form of Christianity is based on the belief that God (who is
GOD) breathed a 'spirit' into 'man' and that spirit is what I
consider to be my 'sixth sense'.
And my belief is that God has always used that spirit to
communicate with man and, because man is 'mortal', he can only
express what God conveys to his spirit in mortally limited ways
such as writing or orally.
But such mortal expressions of what God has conveyed to man's
spirit inevitably have to have been subject to the limitations
of man's mortality, and man's religious textbooks such as the
Bible are no exception.
But, whilst we remain mortal they are the best we have.
However the fact remains (as part of my belief) that God can and
does refine away their mortal inadequacies as he (as ever)
communicates with our spirit whilst we read them.
Another major factor of my particular 'sixth sense' belief is
that the historical Christ was in fact the incarnation of God as
a reinforcement of God's means of communicating with man's
spirit.
Now we come to the more detailed parts of what I believe God to
convey to my spirit as I read (within the 'Bible') man's older
mortal expressions of what God conveyed to their spirit......but
I'm not going to list them (suffice it to say that I am no more
able to express without mortal limitation, what God conveys to
my spirit whilst I read the books of the 'Bible', than were
those who originally produced them).
In that respect I believe David (mjrhealth) to basically be
saying the same as me and to be regarding and using the Bible in
much the same way as do I.
[center]But I expect we've all got it
wrong
HTML http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo29/pigletmph/zadiffgrouphug.gifincluding<br
/>(or even 'especially') me.[/center]
#Post#: 540--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: Ivor1 Date: December 21, 2014, 4:12 am
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As you say my faith and trust in Jesus may be too simplistic,
although you may imagine i could be offended by that comment I
actually see it as a complement. Principles are wonderful in
their simplicity because we have a God thing inside of us (made
in Gods image) that "gets" principles.
Jesus believed Moses is simple yes
and the part that you accidentally missed out when quoting me
explains why its important
Ivor also wrote
Anyone convicted of lying as no credence in any other testimony
they speak of therefore the connotations that Moses is a liar
reaches through time to Jesus in John 5 46 because Jesus "did"
trust Moses's words as evidence for himself and that leads all
the way up to our time and our faith in Jesus speaking truth
too!
Faith in scripture is not such blind faith as some people
imagine it to be. My Jesus is love and love never fails
therefore because Jesus always speaks truth, I therefore always
believe it. This is relational between Jesus and me but may not
be rational to the lastest thinking of others
#Post#: 541--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: A nonny mouse Date: December 21, 2014, 6:18 am
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No probs Ivor...after all this is not meant to be an 'amen, I
agree' forum.
#Post#: 543--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: Kerry Date: December 21, 2014, 7:56 am
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The letter of the law kills. The Spirit gives life. I remind
people "letter" and "literal" mean the same thing.
It is one thing to say we believe Genesis is true. It is
another to understand what it means.
1 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and
is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for
instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto
all good works.
I may have my doubts about sections of Acts, but I have none
about Genesis. Still I must ask who has derived anything of
profit from the story about the Flood? How has it led you to
become closer to perfect, encouraging good works? What doctrine
do you derive from it? How has it instructed you in
righteousness?
Jesus also said:
Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy
God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy
mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour
as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Genesis is part of the Law or Torah. How does the story of the
Flood help you love God or your fellow man better?
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