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#Post#: 512--------------------------------------------------
The 'Flood'?
By: A nonny mouse Date: December 18, 2014, 5:23 pm
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I have just read the following on the internet:-
"Those who accept the documentary or Graf-Wellhausen theory
argue that the content of the Pentateuch should be seen as a
mixture of credible historical events and religious poetry
sparked by man's religious imagination".
For some time I have been inclined to the view that the story of
the 'Flood' for instance was the product of ancient legend and
happened before the earth became 'void', and I'm now wondering
in fact, whether everything in the Pentateuch, relating to those
early years, belongs in the same category.
I'm just into my usual unresearched ruminating, so shoot me down
if you can see the deliberate/accidental error in my thinking.
#Post#: 515--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: Helen Date: December 18, 2014, 7:23 pm
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I answered this on Living Waters as I read it on there
first...did you want me to post my same comment there, on here
too? ( I don't want to as Kerry will rip it up to pieces!! LOL
:D :) )
#Post#: 516--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: A nonny mouse Date: December 18, 2014, 9:09 pm
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=42.msg515#msg515 date=1418952229]
I answered this on Living Waters as I read it on there
first...did you want me to post my same comment there, on here
too? ( I don't want to as Kerry will rip it up to pieces!! LOL
:D :) )
[/quote]
I would have liked it here so that I could have added my LW
reply.
#Post#: 517--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: Helen Date: December 18, 2014, 10:29 pm
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Okay here goes...I think it's always good to keep running after
the truth..it is dangerous when we think we have 'arrived."
I don't believe that it is a myth or legend. I still believe
that the Grand Canyon was cut in one happening...and not cut
little by little by water..too many other things too. The
Mammoths found frozen standing with fresh grass in their
mouths..instant freezing ( when the earth tipped) The Ark
frozen on Ararat ..the photos by Russia who had no agenda to
propagate the truth of the flood as they didn't believe the
bible or in God.
Chinese character language showing the word 'safe' save...as 8
people in a boat on waves..also showing a tree with male and
female standing before it for the word...hummm forgot now...I
used to know them all and had a book about creation shoiwn in
the Chinese characters.
No, I find the myth idea far too hard to believe....it's too
much to explain away.
Mike...just a warning. (As I have written many times)...over the
last decade Dave and I have 'lost' 5 friends who started
doubting this, that , and then the other. Threw out this book of
the bible, then that one.. (starting with the book of James)
Three have since died now..they died not believing in God at
all. They said they were conned into believing the bible. The
other two...one has gone into New Age...the other one doesn't
believe anything anymore... So, in your 'searching' ask God to
teach you "by the spirit" and keep an open heart. Just nagging
you as I'd hate to see you go too far to the left! :D
I am missing Ivor...his new endeavour much be keeping him very
busy..I am glad for him, but sad for us!!
#Post#: 518--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: A nonny mouse Date: December 19, 2014, 2:26 am
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=42.msg517#msg517 date=1418963342]
Okay here goes...I think it's always good to keep running after
the truth..it is dangerous when we think we have 'arrived."
I don't believe that it is a myth or legend. I still believe
that the Grand Canyon was cut in one happening...and not cut
little by little by water..too many other things too. The
Mammoths found frozen standing with fresh grass in their
mouths..instant freezing ( when the earth tipped) The Ark
frozen on Ararat ..the photos by Russia who had no agenda to
propagate the truth of the flood as they didn't believe the
bible or in God.
Chinese character language showing the word 'safe' save...as 8
people in a boat on waves..also showing a tree with male and
female standing before it for the word...hummm forgot now...I
used to know them all and had a book about creation shoiwn in
the Chinese characters.
No, I find the myth idea far too hard to believe....it's too
much to explain away.
[/quote]
The fact that such universally very similar versions of what was
surely the same 'myth and legend' doesn't meant it didn't
happen....surely it means the reverse?
The term myth and legend is perhaps misunderstood if it conveys
that it didn't happen.
Surely all it does is to highlight that the accounts were not
from eye witnesses, or even from recorded history, especially if
the time lag was one of millions of years at a time when
historical records (as we know them) did not exist.
What you've said Helen strengthens my inclination and answers
scientific and archaeological discovery.
To me it simply takes a chunk of Biblical history and places it
before the earth became void, rather than after it.
Isaiah tells us that "God created not the earth a void".....it's
just part of the Gap theory that makes sense of the beginning of
Genesis.
#Post#: 519--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: A nonny mouse Date: December 19, 2014, 2:29 am
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=42.msg517#msg517 date=1418963342]
Mike...just a warning. (As I have written many times)...over the
last decade Dave and I have 'lost' 5 friends who started
doubting this, that , and then the other. Threw out this book of
the bible, then that one.. (starting with the book of James)
Three have since died now..they died not believing in God at
all. They said they were conned into believing the bible. The
other two...one has gone into New Age...the other one doesn't
believe anything anymore... So, in your 'searching' ask God to
teach you "by the spirit" and keep an open heart. Just nagging
you as I'd hate to see you go too far to the left! :D
[/quote]
Me?......I know nothing in the words of the flesh.
But I think and pray a lot, and come up with question upon
question.....but the questions are all in 'words of the flesh'.
In the 'words of the flesh' I wonder if God has ever 'spoken' to
'man' in 'the words of the flesh'......IOW 'audibly' so that
man's 'ears of the flesh' heard such words.
Certainly he has never spoken to me in that way.
Methinks (or should I say 'me wonders')....might not God only
ever have spoken in words of the flesh when he was amongst us in
the person of the incarnate Jesus?.
And even then the 'ears to hear' proviso surely meant "those
who, on hearing Jesus' words of the flesh', were able to
understand them in terms of 'words of the spirit'.
I'm wondering if everything written in the Bible, being written
in words of the flesh, might not similarly need the 'ears of the
spirit' to convert them into the 'words of the spirit' for
whoever happens to be reading them?
On which basis one reader might 'hear' something in the 'ears of
the spirit' and take it to have literal meaning, whilst another
might read the self same words and take them to have symbolic
meaning.
I call it 'Faith', which to me means "Christ within by the power
of the Holy Spirit".
Is that "too far to the left.....or might it not be a right and
proper shift 'to the right'?
#Post#: 521--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: HappyHeretic Date: December 19, 2014, 5:49 am
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[quote author=A nonny mouse link=topic=42.msg519#msg519
date=1418977763]
In the 'words of the flesh' I wonder if God has ever 'spoken' to
'man' in 'the words of the flesh'......IOW 'audibly' so that
man's 'ears of the flesh' heard such words. [/quote]
I know people who have heard the audible voice of God. Not just
a voice in their head.
So I would say, "yes" He has.
Mike HM
#Post#: 522--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: HappyHeretic Date: December 19, 2014, 6:06 am
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I have doubts about the ark and the flood being actual events.
There are technical difficulties - one being how such a boat
could be built when we can't build a wooden boat that size in
this day and age with all the extra knowledge and experience we
have.
Here's an article that explores some of the problems:
HTML http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html
In support of it happening are the NT references back to it -
like in 2 Peter. But, could that have been refering to a story
and still be legitimate? I've not made my mind up on that yet.
I think it might be like the acount of creation in - there is
scope to interpret the text in different ways and still get from
the passages what God intended when the passages were included
in the Bible.
Regards,
Mike HM
#Post#: 524--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: A nonny mouse Date: December 19, 2014, 6:35 am
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[quote author=HereticMouse link=topic=42.msg521#msg521
date=1418989769]
I know people who have heard the audible voice of God. Not just
a voice in their head.
So I would say, "yes" He has.
Mike HM
[/quote]
But my problem is that I have met such people who have ended up
as certified maniacs....and I could see no evidence to suggest
that they should have been regarded otherwise (and you'll find
most of them amongst the 'charismatics').
#Post#: 527--------------------------------------------------
Re: The 'Flood'?
By: Alfie Date: December 19, 2014, 7:02 am
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=42.msg515#msg515 date=1418952229]
I answered this on Living Waters as I read it on there
first...did you want me to post my same comment there, on here
too? ( I don't want to as Kerry will rip it up to pieces!! LOL
:D :) )
[/quote]
DO IT ;POST IT "LOL"
I JUST DON'T WANT TO BE THE ONLY ONE WITH A PAPER TORN UP ----
8)
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