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#Post#: 3642--------------------------------------------------
Re: Love, Wisdom and Power
By: Piper Date: January 16, 2016, 10:11 pm
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I don't believe in praying 'against' anyone. But her anger is
just. I agree he should be prosecuted. I think he needs to be
sorry before she's pressured to forgive. God has washed away
whole worlds that have sinned without repentance. I don't think
she should descend into bitter hatred, but if she were my
daughter, I would want him punished by law. I would want him
stopped. If he were my son . . . I'd want him prosecuted, and
he'd best not show his face for a long while.
We do what we can to honor justice, then we hand it over to God.
Romans 12:19
I just think sex is so casual these days, r*ape might not be
taken seriously. But women suffer a complex syndrome of
post-traumatic stress following such a thing. It's such a sin
against God, too, if you think it through; sex is meant to be a
gift from God, one of the highest expressions of love between a
man and woman, open even to the creation of new life, so of
course darkness seeks to defile and destroy. :(
#Post#: 3645--------------------------------------------------
Re: Love, Wisdom and Power
By: bradley Date: January 16, 2016, 11:16 pm
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I like lima beans with seasoned salt, sorta bland without it.
#Post#: 3647--------------------------------------------------
Re: Love, Wisdom and Power
By: Kerry Date: January 18, 2016, 6:58 am
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[quote author=bradley link=topic=410.msg3640#msg3640
date=1452988881]
Everyone encouraged her to prosecute the boy, including me, to
prevent it from happening again, because ppl like that always do
it again. I even told her she could pray for God's earthly
vengence on the boy, perhaps God could use the suffering of the
boy to bring him around to be more responsible. Just that we
cannot be forgiven if we refuse to forgive others, and that she
didnt have to forgive him right away, God would understand the
rawness of the pain and would not hold it against her for awhile
probably. She was very very angry, like wanting us all to pray
he would suffer greatly and all those who believed his
story/lies, to suffer also. Surely you dont think thats okay?
[/quote]The story doesn't make sense to me. Something's fishy.
If she was so full of anger and hatred and wanted him to suffer
so much, why didn't she report it to the police? It's not a
lot of fun getting arrested and prosecuted and having your name
dragged through the mud.
And what kind of Christian is she anyway not to report it? Does
she care only about herself and not about other women he may do
the same thing to? While I think revenge is a bad motive for
reporting a crime, reporting it is still the right thing to do
if it could prevent more crimes.
I also wonder what "lies" he was telling according to her.
And why would she be angry with people who believe him? I bet
if he was convicted, that might change some of their minds.
Coming onto a Christian forum talking about it isn't going to
change a thing that I can see.
I think there may be more to this story than she's telling.
I'd love to hear his side of the story. I can think of a couple
of scenarios that might embarrass her if true.
#Post#: 3648--------------------------------------------------
Re: Love, Wisdom and Power
By: Kerry Date: January 18, 2016, 7:59 am
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[quote author=Piper link=topic=410.msg3642#msg3642
date=1453003900]
I don't believe in praying 'against' anyone. But her anger is
just.[/quote]
Can we be sure about this? Remember Potipher's wife. If her
anger was just, why wouldn't she press charges? Why resort to
trying to defame him on a forum -- where nobody probably knows
who he is anyway?
[quote]I agree he should be prosecuted. I think he needs to be
sorry before she's pressured to forgive. God has washed away
whole worlds that have sinned without repentance. I don't think
she should descend into bitter hatred, but if she were my
daughter, I would want him punished by law. I would want him
stopped. If he were my son . . . I'd want him prosecuted, and
he'd best not show his face for a long while.[/quote]To me,
saying "I forgive you" to someone who hasn't expressed remorse
is a mostly meaningless gesture.
But do we know what happened, really?
[quote]We do what we can to honor justice, then we hand it over
to God.
Romans 12:19
I just think sex is so casual these days, r*ape might not be
taken seriously. But women suffer a complex syndrome of
post-traumatic stress following such a thing. It's such a sin
against God, too, if you think it through; sex is meant to be a
gift from God, one of the highest expressions of love between a
man and woman, open even to the creation of new life, so of
course darkness seeks to defile and destroy. :([/quote]
Women are not well advised today if you ask me. I am not
excusing men who rape women by any means; but women need to take
more care in their conduct, how they dress and so on. Just
because you're not doing something wrong doesn't mean it's a
wise thing to do. People shouldn't steal your car; but it's
still foolish to let the keys in it. It's asking for trouble.
I was riding with a fellow once; and another driver did
something that risked an accident. My friend refused to yield an
inch. The other driver didn't keep pressing and there wasn't
an accident; but there could have been. I asked my friend why
he didn't yield. He said he had the right of way. "That's
great," I said. "When you get killed, we'll put 'He died having
the right of way on your tombstone.'"
So I wonder if this woman was raped, how well did she know the
boyfriend? Obviously not as well as she thought she did. The
"love" she may have imagined was in her mind only. So why do
women allow themselves to be alone with men like that?
But assume on the other hand, she's lying. How well did the
boyfriend know her? I wonder about men who allow themselves
to be alone with unstable women since women can say a man
molested them even if he didn't. I always thought Billy Graham
was smart to insist that the door be open to his office if a
woman was meeting with him. Anybody going by could see what
was going on. And in cases like that, even if the woman
doesn't make an accusation, somebody else can start rumors.
I think our culture is too accepting of unmarried people being
alone. Too many things can happen which somebody is apt to
regret later; and then we have cases where nobody seems to know
the truth.
One theory I have is this woman might be trying to get her
boyfriend back. I know that sounds outrageous, but it's a
possibility. Maybe she wanted him to marry her and thought he
would if they had sex. Then after the sex, he said no. So she
cried rape. She doesn't want him in prison -- not if she
wants to marry him. She may want to make him suffer using the
"power" of her words until he gives up and agrees to marry her.
Men are apt to say anything before sex, "Yes, baby, you know I
love you." Then after, he says marriage is out. If you're a
church-going person, you might wind up pregnant and single; and
some denominations have a lot of unplanned pregnancies.
Our society is still messed up on the subject. Why would a
woman feel ashamed or guilty after being raped? It's not
logical. Yet our society is that way. Even some husbands are.
I read about one man who said he couldn't bear to think about
having sex with his wife after she had been raped. Not that she
probably would have been in the mood -- but he looked at her as
if she was damaged goods or something. It's a shame that
women are made to feel that way when they've truly been
assaulted and can prove it. No wonder some women don't report
it, don't even talk about it.
But I admire the women who do come forward -- and I admire even
more the ones who aren't afraid to put their name out there.
Is Bill Cosby guilty? Who knows; but if he is, it's a shame it
took so long for the first woman to come forward -- which then
encouraged others to. But there again, some of those women
weren't completely innocent either. They wanted something
from him -- that's pretty clear. While it in no way justifies
rape, it puts them in an awkward position.
Why did Anita Hill (remember her?) follow Clarence Thomas from
job to job if he had been sexually harassing her? She said it
had stopped briefly so chose to move jobs with him? It seems
fairly clear to me she was willing to tolerate the harassment
because she was getting something from him. Does she have the
right to complain about it later then? Maybe, but it seems a
little in bad form to me. It seems in even worse form though
that he's now on the Supreme Court, and that he was approved
without the records from the video store being produced. I was
very interested in what movies he had rented. Thanks to Joe
Biden and Arlen Specter, that information never got produced.
But then what if she had reported it when it happened? Or what
if she told him she'd report him if it happened again? He
might have gotten off and her career would have been ruined.
Hill finally got herself into a position where she could talk
and he couldn't damage her and she didn't need him for anything.
I'm still flabbergasted and somewhat annoyed that he's on the
Supreme Court.
#Post#: 3651--------------------------------------------------
Re: Love, Wisdom and Power
By: Heartsong Date: January 18, 2016, 11:33 am
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[quote author=bradley link=topic=410.msg3645#msg3645
date=1453007778]
I like lima beans with seasoned salt, sorta bland without it.
[/quote]
Yum lima beans with crumbled up cornbread in it and onions with
sliced tomatoes on the side. Good stuff. ;D
#Post#: 3653--------------------------------------------------
Re: Love, Wisdom and Power
By: Piper Date: January 18, 2016, 12:06 pm
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Kerry, you answer your own question of why a woman might not
report a r*ape; let's assume she's innocent; if people will
speculate wildly on how SHE may be at fault on a Christian
forum, how much more will they speculate in a courtroom? What
character assassination might a defense attorney come up with?
What if the man is popular and 'well-respected' (even a
church-goer) and she is not well-known? What if bad publicity
could cause her to lose her job? What if, he being obviously
violent, she is afraid if she reports the r*ape he will
retaliate with further violence against her or her family? What
if she simply can not bear the thought of ever having to see
this man again or be in the same room with him?
Men don't understand, perhaps, that when a woman is r*aped, she
often "feels dirty" and there is not enough soap and water in
the world to feel clean afterwards. A wire brush used all over
her body, inside and out, will not remove the filth she feels.
I don't care what she was or wasn't wearing--and, yes, young
women are often naive and unwise-- it still does not justify a
man forcing sex on a woman. (I've seen beautiful junior high
girls, little girls just starting to mature, flirt with grown
men, completely oblivious they are playing with fire; they
don't yet understand the power of their beauty; they are naive
and endanger themselves with strangers.) I also don't care if
she's had consensual sex with twenty guys, it STILL does not
justify a r*ape.
We can speculate forever and because no one witnessed what
happened, it becomes a 'he says' / 'she says' circus, and
concerted efforts by both sides aim for character assassination.
Many victims actually DO feel unwarranted guilt. They might
think because they wore a sundress or did not wear a bra, or
because they allowed themselves to be alone with the guy, they
were "asking for trouble." They torment themselves with 'if only
I hadn't done this or that', when, in reality, NOTHING justifies
r*ape!
I did not tell our lawyer about the lewd behavior involved in
the Tree Service mess. I was certainly not raped, yet still I
want to save myself the embarrassment of all the unsavory
speculation. Gee, maybe I was dressed too scantily, or maybe I
flirted, or why did I wander across twelve acres alone with a
stranger in the first place? ( Which will never happen again.
I learn from my mistakes. My lawyer actually wanted me to get a
second estimate from a different Tree Service, but it would once
again put me in the position of walking around the entire
property with a stranger. I will never be put 'in charge' of a
whole crew of men again, apart from my husband. No way. If I
can't do things myself, it won't get done. Sad, but true.)
Anyway, more women do not report r*ape than do; this certainly
does not mean they are guilty. Rather, they may wish to avoid
all the dirty talk and speculation; all the victim- blaming and
potential s*lut-shaming is incredibly intimidating, more so if
you ARE a "good girl." And, generally, these are dangerous men
we are talking about. Many women live with the pain and anger,
pretending it didn't happen. But, it's like a cancer, and it
can affect every relationship she might have with a man in the
future. Many women who have been r*aped can no longer stand to
be touched, much less have more intimate sexual contact.
Think of how male promisicuity is generally cheered by society,
but if it comes out in court that the woman had previous
multiple partners, then she is labeled a "s*lut. Ha. I've
known many more male-sluts than female.
Kevin told me of men he worked with that had the mindset that if
they took a woman out to dinner a couple times she "owed" them
sex, and they were angry when refused. Heck, to my
understanding "dating" is almost an obsolete term.
I would NOT wish to be single in today's world. A woman is SO
much better off on her own than with the wrong man! (And, yes,
I realize that can work BOTH ways.)
Of course, we don't have details in this particular case, but
the fact IS many innocent women do not report r*ape. Perhaps
our society needs to reflect on why this is.
Women might be ill-advised and may make bad choices and
mistakes; but r*ape is no mistake; it is an intentional act of
force.
#Post#: 3654--------------------------------------------------
Re: Love, Wisdom and Power
By: Piper Date: January 18, 2016, 12:09 pm
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[quote author=Heartsong link=topic=410.msg3651#msg3651
date=1453138398]
Yum lima beans with crumbled up cornbread in it and onions with
sliced tomatoes on the side. Good stuff. ;D
[/quote]
Hi, you! :)
#Post#: 3656--------------------------------------------------
Re: Love, Wisdom and Power
By: Heartsong Date: January 18, 2016, 12:22 pm
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[quote author=Piper link=topic=410.msg3654#msg3654
date=1453140588]
Hi, you! :)
[/quote]
Hey there Nancy. :)
#Post#: 3663--------------------------------------------------
Re: Love, Wisdom and Power
By: bradley Date: January 18, 2016, 5:15 pm
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If you mashed up some of the lima's into a more soupy mixture
and add cornbread, that sounds yummy as well.
#Post#: 3666--------------------------------------------------
Re: Love, Wisdom and Power
By: bradley Date: January 18, 2016, 6:06 pm
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As Kerry said, something sounded wrong about the situation. I
gave her the benefit of the doubt that she was telling the
complete truth. But I have seen hatred due to r*ape twist
people up badly mentally in my own mother. She was r*aped in
arizona by her boyfriend and two of his friends all at once.
Before she left for arizona, she had a nervous breakdown, due to
my stepfather, causing lots of anguish in her because of how he
treated me. After the breakdown, she hooked up with one loser
guy after another, one she met at the insane asylum she worked
at, he would shoot a gun out of his passenger window while she
was driving. One was a severe alcoholic biker who wore black
leather all over, they had such loud sex the next room over, I
nearly threw up. The next morning he had to have some hard
liqueur before was able to function well enough to leave. She
hated her father so much, she accused him of everything but
being the son of the devil, to include inciting others to r*ape
her, and felt she had to leave Ohio because her dad and her ex
still lived there. Her boyfriend there was a cop or private
eye, cant remember. She would go into bars and incite people
to do something wrong so she could turn them into the cops.
Her cop boyfriend got two of his friends and they r*aped her.
But she also went to mass regularly and loved Jesus and wanted
me to be a priest like my uncle. She was a good mother to me,
but TERRIBLE in her men choices. She married my stepfather
because he was cute and had a job, and was willing to help raise
me and my brother. A poor choice that lead to her breakdown.
She was messed up emotionally about 75% of her life, and she
shown no wisdom what so ever in her choices of men to be
intimate with. I love my mother, but I am not blind and I know
that her own foolishness brought most of these troubles on
herself. I was so pleased that as she got old enough to have
to live in a nursing home, her memory of the past got so bad,
that she forgot all the bad stuff she went through, and is
probably the happiest she has been since she was a child. Her
first rape was by some boy she went out with when she was a
teenager, and she believes that her dad hired him to r*ape her.
She believed he set her up with all her boyfriends and husbands
that turned out bad, including the guys in arizona.
I also know that some women have been known to cry rape when
things dont go exactly the way they want in a situation they
tried to manipulate to their advantage, and that innocent men's
lives have been ruined therein.
I have seen too much evil that both men and women have both
dished out and suffered. I have learned that there is no one
righteous, not even one. And that the truth that people are
sure is true, is merely what they see from their own eyes and
not the eyes of Jesus who is the truth and the life.
That girl no doubt suffered. I prayed for her healing and gave
her the best advise I could, but I could also sense a deep
emotional hatred that will ruin her life if she cant let it go.
How can we help people if we cant help them to see the path
they must regain or suffer much much more?
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