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#Post#: 3624--------------------------------------------------
Love, Wisdom and Power
By: Kerry Date: January 15, 2016, 5:54 am
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L. Ron Hubbard said something once that I found hard to accept
at first: "The highest purpose in the universe is the creation
of an effect." That seemed wrong to me since it didn't seem
to specify what kind of effects people should be creating.
After all, murdering someone is making something happen.
Robbery and rape are creating effects. However after digging
more into things, I saw that he meant that unhealthy people are
incapable of creating truly splendid effects, can't make
wonderful things happen -- so they lose confidence in their
ability to make things go right and then want to make things go
wrong for others.
This week I was on a delivery and there was a small girl behind
a toddler gate at the top of these stairs. The house had that
kind of foyer that a half-flight of stairs goes up to the second
story; and the gate was there so she wouldn't fall down. The
father was paying for the pizza and this little girl waved to
me. My instinct was to give her a big smile and wave back.
No, I didn't think about it. I just did it.
What was going on there? That little girl made something
happen. She got me to do something. And more, it made me happy
to do it. Clearly she had a loving nature; and somehow she had
the wisdom to know if she waved to me, that might tell me she
liked me and wanted my attention. Of course, she also had the
ability to move her hand. So there was a demonstration of
Love, Wisdom and Power. Small children are born that way as a
rule. They want to make things happen and they tend to be
benevolent too. Odds are though they will need to acquire
wisdom to avoid making mistakes -- and creating effects they
don't want.
Then on another delivery, a man answered the door with his two
sons. He was paying by credit card, so he was being kept busy
signing that; and the son had some cash to give me as a tip.
What was going on there? I didn't know if the son had asked if
he could give me the tip or if the father had suggested it; but
it seemed pretty clear that the father was trying to encourage
good behavior in his sons by teaching them how to do things to
get good results. Most of the time, when dealing with one
person, I wait until he or she pays before getting the pizzas
out of the hot bag; but I decided I'd see if the other son
wanted to take them. So I said, "And who's going to take the
pizzas?" The other son said, "I will, I will." The father
nodded and said it was okay.
Healthy people don't resent it if others want power and want to
make things happen. In fact, they encourage it -- the wise and
benevolent use of power. That father and I could have done
everything. We didn't "need" the help of the two sons; but we
also didn't need to do it all.
I've delivered to two men at the Army War College who told me
what they were doing was their wives' decisions. One told me
his wife had decided on the tip. Far from looking at them as
wimps, I was impressed by their willingness to let their wives
"control" some things. It gave them more time to focus on
their studies for one thing; and it is also a good way to avoid
arguments about money. I think it takes a "strong man" to
take that approach and be frank about it. If their wives were
good with money, by all means, why not let them make the
decisions?
One of the worst things a parent can do is to tell a child he
can't help, he can't do anything right. Remember now, the
"highest purpose" in the universe is the creation of an effect;
and a child who is told this may start believing he's unable to
do anything worthwhile, but he surely will learn how to do
things that aren't so worthwhile, and often things that
frustrate his parents. Ha, ha, if you don't teach your
children how to do things in a way that please you and others,
don't be surprised if they do things that displease you.
Another problem in society is the bad reputation the word
"control" has. What is often called "control" is really "out
of control." Control is good. Yes, real control is good.
Someone driving a car, keeping it under control, is good.
Even if someone is angry, odds are he cares enough about his own
life that he's not willing to ram into oncoming traffic. Is
that love? Maybe, maybe not, but it's still astonishing to me
when I think about how many people I meet on the roads and no
one is deliberately trying to injure or kill me with his car.
Some drivers are more considerate than others; but still most
people obey the Golden Rule to a certain extent, knowing if they
don't, they might wind up dead themselves. So there's some
element of love perhaps. Surely there is a kind of wisdom in
driving and you can see the power.
In life, these three things, Love, Wisdom, and Power, are almost
never found alone. If it were to be found alone, it wouldn't
last long unless it finds something of the other two to
stabilize it. Love without Wisdom and Power is weak and
foolish. Wisdom without Love and Power creates hatred and
enemies who will destroy you. Power without Love and Wisdom
may last for a while but tends to self-destruct.
The three can be thought of as an equilateral triangle. If one
side is too short, and if you don't take steps to lengthen it,
the other two sides will get shorter. For example, if you have
more Wisdom and Power than Love, odds are you'll lose of the
Wisdom and Power until the three factors come into balance.
If you want to increase all three, you can begin with any of the
three; but it's easier, much easier, to work on increasing Love
first. Do that, and Wisdom and Power often follow almost
automatically. It seems dangerous to me to seek Wisdom or
Power first, thinking you can play catch-up with that later.
Pride being somewhat of the opposite of Love can be deceptive;
and the person impressed by his own new found Wisdom or Power
may be on the path to hell.
Frankly folks, so far as I know God does not impose a limit to
how much a person can grow spiritually. If someone does well
with the Power he has been given, using it both wisely and
lovingly, God seems to reward that person with more Love,
Wisdom and Power. I certainly don't fear others having Power
-- I mean real Power, godly Power -- not the manipulative kind
lying men call power. What is there to fear?
#Post#: 3626--------------------------------------------------
Re: Love, Wisdom and Power
By: Kerry Date: January 15, 2016, 1:46 pm
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People sometimes joke about how cats train people. One thing
for sure, cats like predictable things. They want their food
where they expect it and so on. Years ago when Milhaus was
with me, he was meowing and I knew he wanted something but
didn't know what. Later I spotted him by the empty water bowl
looking at me as if I was stupid. I said, "So that's what it
was? Just tell me!" Believe it or not, after that he would go
to the water bowl and meow if he needed water; and believe it or
not, after that I would always get him water when he asked. He
had trained me; but I wanted to be "trained."
If I had failed to get him water when he wanted it, he would
have felt betrayed. What is betrayal? You have to have trust
before you can have betrayal. Trust is when you think you have
an agreement with someone that this is the way things will be.
Betrayal is when you feel you can trust someone and then find
out you can't -- things aren't the way you thought -- and you
feel as if the rug was pulled out from under you.
No, I don't give the cats everything they want. Mohini would be
hopelessly fat if I fed her when she wanted. She doesn't even
bother to ask much for food anymore; but if the other two cats
want food, I'll get it out.
The question I ask is if I behave this way for my cats because I
want them to trust me, how does God behave towards us? I
believe God wants us to trust Him so He behaves in predictable
ways. The next question then is if we can figure out how He
behaves?
I believe if we have the Wisdom to know if someone is good or
not so we aren't asking for things that are unwise and if we ask
with the motivation of Love, God will always respond. It may
not be immediately but God will always answer. It may appear
to others that Moses was doing things when he raised his rod and
things happened; and maybe he was, but he was using the Power of
God given to him by God. And again, there is no limit to the
Power God will give anyone. The problem is discerning things
so we are not asking for unwise or unloving things. We cannot
expect God to ignore the wants and needs of others or to
override their free will. So at times the first step to
getting something is to ask Heaven about a situation. What is
going on? What is already decided by the free will of others,
and what is fluid?
The following text is ambiguous. It can be read as a question
or a command in Hebrew, so different translations render it
differently. Which is right then? Here's one version:
Isaiah 45:11 RSV Thus says the Lord,
the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker:
“Will you question me about my children,
or command me concerning the work of my hands?
Do we dare ask God about things? Here's another version which
says we ought to ask God and even command Him:
KVJ Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker,
Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the
work of my hands command ye me.
So which is it? I suppose that may depend on us. If we see
God as cold and indifferent and power-hungry Himself and perhaps
even feeling threatened by others, we might choose the first
option. If we see God as Loving and wanting to please us, we
might choose the second.
Psalm 18:26 With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with
the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward.
#Post#: 3628--------------------------------------------------
Re: Love, Wisdom and Power
By: Piper Date: January 15, 2016, 4:21 pm
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Need some time with this.
The weight is a bit heavy today. I'm not sure what you're
saying, but I only read once, and my mind and my heart and my
body are feeling a bit starved. Will come back. God willing.
#Post#: 3629--------------------------------------------------
Re: Love, Wisdom and Power
By: Piper Date: January 15, 2016, 9:41 pm
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I do think the notion that love, wisdom, and power must all be
in balance makes sense. If you think of Jesus, certainly you
can see that He kept all three in balance.
[quote] Kerry: If you want to increase all three, you can begin
with any of the three; but it's easier, much easier, to work on
increasing Love first.[/quote]
This seems good advice, especially since effects brought about
by love matter most.
Godly power is something few of us are wise enough to wield,
perhaps. But I wonder if it is love or wisdom that is most
lacking when so many of us seem to lack any real power. We all
think we know how to love, but do we?
Trust and betrayal. Trust must be won. And, unfortunately,
people are much more complex than cats or any animals for that
matter. Sometimes we trust too easily. We think a relationship
is strong and unbreakable, others may even say the 'right'
words, but suddenly we find how fragile or shallow the
relationship really was. Even if we truly loved, perhaps we
loved without wisdom. What were our expectations? Were they
unreasonable? What were their expectations? Were they based on
love or power? Or maybe something else entirely.
Perhaps love is helped by making expectations clear. There is
wisdom to be had in knowing, and power in mutual fulfillment.
#Post#: 3631--------------------------------------------------
Re: Love, Wisdom and Power
By: Kerry Date: January 16, 2016, 8:53 am
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[quote author=Piper link=topic=410.msg3629#msg3629
date=1452915702]
I do think the notion that love, wisdom, and power must all be
in balance makes sense. If you think of Jesus, certainly you
can see that He kept all three in balance.
This seems good advice, especially since effects brought about
by love matter most.
Godly power is something few of us are wise enough to wield,
perhaps. But I wonder if it is love or wisdom that is most
lacking when so many of us seem to lack any real power. We all
think we know how to love, but do we? [/quote]I'll post
something that is not to my credit. I posted it before at LGO;
so I'll just copy it and put it here. This is about a vision of
Michael, and what he taught me a lesson about power.
When Michael showed up, I knew who it was at once; but I didn't
know why he was there. He was standing on a rock with a sword
in his left hand. The sword was lifted up in the air. He was
dressed in a tunic that came about to his knees. His face was
innocent and pure like a child's, incredibly beautiful. The
only color in this vision was blue. Everything was blue. He
stood without saying a word. I asked him if I could ask him a
question. He said yes, so I asked, "Why do you want power?"
He said, "To do God's work better."
Did you catch my impurity in that question? I had been
associating wanting power with evil. I had never specifically
thought of Michael that way, but it was a problem I had with
myself. I saw I had been harboring some problems inwardly --
not choosing evil outright but wanting to keep the options open
in case someday I wanted to do those evil things. Just in case.
In that state, God could not trust me with power. I had not
given up those options to do evil if I felt like it. Now I say
"God could not trust me" but it's also the case I didn't trust
myself. My conscience knew I wasn't safe to be trusted with too
much power.
Did you know that if you abuse a gift or ability, your
conscience will turn it off so you can't use it? I don't
advise trying it, but if you went around kicking animals and
people enough, eventually you'd do something to limit your
ability to use your feet like that. You might even cripple
yourself.
So Michael had come to show me these inner mental reservations
I had had.
Then I had heard that any angel can appear as male or female, so
I asked if I could see his female counterpart. She appeared on
the rock too and with a sword; but the sword was in her right
hand and pointed down with the blade almost touching the ground
-- as if a child was standing behind the sword and protected by
it although it was not moving. The sword that protects the
innocent by placing itself in between the innocent and the
guilty is the same sword that is raised to inflict damage on the
guilty if he chooses to attack. That was the end of the vision.
I had to start clearing more garbage out of my life. Wanting to
keep all the options open just in case I wanted to do evil was
-- to use Elijah's words -- "halting between two opinions." To
use James' words, it was being "double minded." Saying, "But
I'm not doing anything evil by wanting to keep the option to do
evil" wasn't good enough. I had to give up those options.
I was lacking in both charity and wisdom; and I knew it and was
afraid of abusing power if I had it so I didn't want too much.
Then I deceived myself into thinking the reason I didn't want
power or was suspicious of it was because I was a good person.
But how gently beloved Michael reproved me.
[quote]Trust and betrayal. Trust must be won. And,
unfortunately, people are much more complex than cats or any
animals for that matter. Sometimes we trust too easily. We
think a relationship is strong and unbreakable, others may even
say the 'right' words, but suddenly we find how fragile or
shallow the relationship really was. Even if we truly loved,
perhaps we loved without wisdom. What were our expectations?
Were they unreasonable? What were their expectations? Were
they based on love or power? Or maybe something else
entirely.[/quote]
While it is true we can love without wisdom, it's also true that
we acquire wisdom through our mistakes. One thing we ought
never regret is having loved. If people I love betrays me,
that does not make me wrong or even foolish for having loved
them. People are unpredictable so you never can be completely
sure how they'll respond; and people are often wobbly, wanting
to love but afraid to commit themselves being afraid themselves
of betrayal. Getting over that fear of betrayal.
To love is to risk. But even after failure, sometimes the
betrayer can learn from the mistake just as Peter did, and Peter
became a stronger person after correcting his betrayal the best
way he could.
I do wish people would love me; but today it's more for their
benefit than mine. In a way, it's okay if people do or don't.
I can't control them so why bother trying? But I still wish
people would love me. It would be good for them if they did.
When I see people I'm trying to show love pushing me away, I
wonder what's wrong? It's like the song, "Desperado." "You
better let somebody love you before it's too late."
[quote]Perhaps love is helped by making expectations clear.
There is wisdom to be had in knowing, and power in mutual
fulfillment. [/quote]Love, real love, demands that we act in the
best interest of the people we love. That means we must try to
understand them; and if we don't, struggle if we have to and
experiment if we have to.
Making expectations clear? Yes, and more than that. If I
really want someone to love me back, they need to know the real
"me." Do I really want people to love an false image of
myself I put out there to impress them or perhaps to lure them
in? If they fall for that false image of myself, they don't
know the real me. They can't possibly love me. They don't
even know who I am. I can never relax with them. I must be
on constant guard to keep up the pretenses. That doesn't seem
wise to me. It sounds like a recipe for stress and disaster.
Life can be so strange. I've had people I cared about a lot lie
to me about stuff I didn't care about at all. They obviously
didn't trust me. And if they didn't trust me, they didn't know
me. They had me fooled; but when I caught them lying, I got
un-fooled. My revenge was pretending not to know they lied.
If they wanted me to believe a lie, I'd go along with the gag.
"Have it your way!" One person did break down and tell me he
lied, and I laughed and said, "Yes, I knew that wasn't right
when you told me. But if you didn't want me to know the truth,
I was going to pretend I didn't." That turned out fine since
he laughed too. Some "apologies" can have happy endings.
I was very glad he straightened it with me though. I would
have let him squirm in that lie and any other subsequent lies --
the tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive ---
just to see what happened. I can be cold and almost scientific
about things at times, studying people the way scientists study
things.
That reminds me of the story about the minister who ate dinner
at a woman's home and she made lima beans. She asked him if he
liked them and he said they were his favorite vegetable when in
fact he hated them. So every time he came to dinner, she made
sure she served him lima beans. This went on until one day he
couldn't take it anymore and confessed he had lied. The woman
wasn't offended, and she stopped serving him lima beans! The
tragedy there is she had only tried to please him; but since he
lied, she had displeased him. Of course, we can also see he
was trying to be "polite" by telling her he liked them; but
surely he went too far in saying they were his favorite.
#Post#: 3632--------------------------------------------------
Re: Love, Wisdom and Power
By: bradley Date: January 16, 2016, 10:20 am
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Sounds like you have some good wisdom about power, wisdom, and
Love Kerry. But the thing is, people must learn this first
hand typically, I dont think you can truly learn it from words,
unless perhaps the Holy Spirit impinges and affects your
conscious mind enough to begin leading you in the right
direction. But why doesnt the Holy Spirit do this to every
single Holy Spirit filled christian? Not sure, I can only
guess, but I would guess that its because most people arent open
to the Holy Spirit's leading unless they want to be. A few
days ago on another christian forum, a young lady posted that
she was raped by her boyfriend who is now her ex-boyfriend.
She was full of anger and unwilling to let go of her anger and
hatred. People cant be too open to the leading of the Holy
Spirit when they are focused on protecting parts of themselves
thats dark that they dont want to let go of. If we are
unwilling to let go of a dark spot in our spirit, and expect the
Holy Spirit to overcome our own will, that seems unHolySpirit
like.
#Post#: 3633--------------------------------------------------
Re: Love, Wisdom and Power
By: Piper Date: January 16, 2016, 11:08 am
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Awesome vision of Michael. Much to learn about power, why it is
good to be granted power, and how serving God must be the focus
of that power. And how do we serve God? I think to study the
life of Jesus gives us many clues; His entire life was spent
doing the will of His Father.
The color blue seems fitting for the vision. Blue often
represents the power and righteousness of God. Perhaps this is
a clue as to why the sky, above all the earth is blue. Earth is
even called the " blue planet." Here, God wills to do great
things. Like Jesus, we are His hands and feet.
[quote]Kerry: One thing we ought never regret is having
loved[/quote]
This is a good reminder, despite the pain that sometimes comes
with loving. I think, in fact, that the loss experienced when
losing those we love, though it pierces us, is a pain divine in
nature. Love so strong, to cause such pain, contains the seed
of immortality.
Are we double-minded? "Search me, o God," and "show me." Such
revelations concerning ourselves can be painful, as well.
I think the temptation to put on a false persona when posting on
forums is great, and I think many fall for it. Online, one can
pretend to be whoever they might like to be. But truth has a
way of manifesting itself. Better we be honest. If we can so
deceive others, we may deceive ourselves and how then shall we
recognize our shortcomings and grow? How will we help or be
helped, if the image we project of self is built on a
foundation of sand? Better to admit our shortcomings than to
base our relationships on false pretense.
Brings to mind when God said, "I am who I am," or "I am that I
am."
God's "I am" is perfect. We can pretend we are all things good,
but until we are willing to confess, repent, and even do penance
for our sin, we really delude no one, most especially not God.
Most revealing is that we can not love God and hate our brother.
Do we even recognize our brother, or do we turn him away because
His song to God is sung to a melody different than our own?
How quick we are to judge. How we love our own voice, our
familiar tune, our familiar comfort zone. God may be found
beneath a stone, but until we turn the stone over and crawl into
the light, we are stuck in one place.
Lima beans, I will eat, but they are not my favorite. Although
appearing all shiny on the outside, inside they tend to be quite
dry.
#Post#: 3634--------------------------------------------------
Re: Love, Wisdom and Power
By: Piper Date: January 16, 2016, 12:07 pm
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[quote]Bradley: A few days ago on another christian forum, a
young lady posted that she was ****d by her boyfriend who is now
her ex-boyfriend. She was full of anger and unwilling to let
go of her anger and hatred. [/quote]
While hatred is self-destructive, anger is, at times, justified.
While I don't know all the details, my first instinct is to
pity this poor lady for bringing such a personal tragedy to a
Christian forum. Instead of the understanding she needs, she
likely was met with the oft-sentiment that she must forgive
unconditionally, despite this act of violation and betrayal.
She has, IMO, a right to feel righteous anger toward this male
she thought to be a "boyfriend." Every right! If she simply
pretends to forgive him, to love or accept him, what lesson does
he learn? He has done wrong, sinned against her, and it sounds
that she is the innocent victim. How could she NOT be angry?
I'm not sure why Christianity tends to put 'guilt' on the victim
in this way. To speak to her of forgiving this wicked violation
of her trust is to violate her further. She must not hate, but
she has a right to be angry. Perhaps the focus should be on the
spiritual danger the perpetrator of the crime is in. His act
must not be simply "forgiven" and swept under the carpet if he
shows no repentance, no remorse. Why? Because such weak,
insincere pretense of forgiveness will only encourage similar
behavior with other unsuspecting young ladies. Not only does he
deserve her anger, he likely deserves time in prison.
Even God does not forgive where there is no repentance. How
would He expect this poor lady to? Only time will heal her.
And she can learn much from the experience. God can help her do
that. If this man repents, then we can talk forgiveness. She
must, in her anger, strive not to hate him, but to pity him,
because he is twisted and pathetic.
Even Jesus experienced righteous anger. IMO, this lady has
every right to be angry. She is the VICTIM, possibly in untold
psychological pain, and should not be handed guilt on a platter
of false righteousness by well-meaning, but misguided,
Christians.
Of course, there may be details I am unaware of, but based only
on what you wrote, I feel very bad for her. Of course she is
angry!
No offense intended here toward you, Brad. Being female,
perhaps my reaction is strong, but perhaps rightly so. What a
gross betrayal, if she placed her trust in this man and he
forced on her what she clearly did not want! I am angry with
him, too!!! Even angrier if he gets away with r *ape, only to
do it again.
[quote]People cant be too open to the leading of the Holy Spirit
when they are focused on protecting parts of themselves thats
dark that they dont want to let go of. [/quote]
This I can agree with, Brad. That is why this young man should
pay for what he's done. He must realize the magnitude of what
he's done. It should make everyone who knows him very angry,
until he sees his act for what it was and is sorry.
#Post#: 3637--------------------------------------------------
Re: Love, Wisdom and Power
By: Piper Date: January 16, 2016, 12:48 pm
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I also worry that making impossible emotional demands on someone
who's been r*aped could turn her away from the faith that should
be there to help see her through.
Just as claiming someone who is chronically ill suffers because
of their sin: This type of thinking is why Lyme forums warn
people AWAY from Christians. Very sad. And if THAT notion held
any truth, all the worst sinners in the world would be sick,
weak, and feeble, which, obviously, they are not.
#Post#: 3640--------------------------------------------------
Re: Love, Wisdom and Power
By: bradley Date: January 16, 2016, 6:01 pm
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Everyone encouraged her to prosecute the boy, including me, to
prevent it from happening again, because ppl like that always do
it again. I even told her she could pray for God's earthly
vengence on the boy, perhaps God could use the suffering of the
boy to bring him around to be more responsible. Just that we
cannot be forgiven if we refuse to forgive others, and that she
didnt have to forgive him right away, God would understand the
rawness of the pain and would not hold it against her for awhile
probably. She was very very angry, like wanting us all to pray
he would suffer greatly and all those who believed his
story/lies, to suffer also. Surely you dont think thats okay?
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