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#Post#: 3494--------------------------------------------------
Sore Afraid
By: Gaffer Date: December 25, 2015, 11:49 pm
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Have you ever experienced God in a way that made you afraid?
Luke 2:8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in
the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory
of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
The story ends differently, of course,
17 And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying
which was told them concerning this child.
18 And all they that heard it wondered at those things which
were told them by the shepherds.
19 But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her
heart.
20 And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for
all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto
them.
Compare that to how the Angel of the LORD appeared to Moses:
Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a
flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and,
behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not
consumed.
3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great
sight, why the bush is not burnt.
4 And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called
unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses.
And he said, Here am I.
5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off
thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of
Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid
his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
Moses like the shepherds is told things, and he also moves:
18 And Moses went and returned to Jethro his father in law, and
said unto him, Let me go, I pray thee, and return unto my
brethren which are in Egypt, and see whether they be yet alive.
And Jethro said to Moses, Go in peace.
Thus it is written:
Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom:
and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
#Post#: 3503--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sore Afraid
By: bradley Date: December 26, 2015, 8:06 am
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I think Moses was trained to not fear so easily. Not sure if
that training was from God or from man, but I can see its there.
#Post#: 3516--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sore Afraid
By: James Date: December 29, 2015, 12:40 pm
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Quote- Have you ever experienced God in a way that made you
afraid?
Short answer no, but I put that down to my naivety and total
lack of sense of occasion.
#Post#: 3519--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sore Afraid
By: Kerry Date: December 29, 2015, 10:49 pm
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[quote author=James link=topic=398.msg3516#msg3516
date=1451414416]
Quote- Have you ever experienced God in a way that made you
afraid?
Short answer no, but I put that down to my naivety and total
lack of sense of occasion.
[/quote]Thanks for the answer. I think this kind of fear
comes to people whom God wishes to use in a certain way.
Isaiah was also struck with fear, I'd say, when he said:
Isaiah 6:5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am
a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of
unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of
hosts.
He became keenly aware of his own impurities in the Holy
Presence.
Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of
the living God.
When a person approaches the Presence closely, the impurities
which had been concealed before become known. We could say
it's a form of judgment. And after the initial fear, God's
solution is made known.
6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in
his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:
7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched
thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.
8 Also I heard the voice of the LORD, saying, Whom shall I send,
and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
Until we approach the Presence so intimately that we experience
this fear, we could have impurities which we don't know about.
These continue to perplex us in life, of course. We may
confuse purity with impurity, sweetness with darkness, etc.,
until this judgment of being in the Presence reveals our
shortcomings.
Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil;
that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put
bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
This confusing of good with evil means we can't spot the serpent
that is biting our heels. We don't know how the serpent mind
works. We aren't as "wise" as the serpent. In short, the
serpent is still fooling us in some way. Now consider Moses
again. Moses was afraid when he encountered the angel, and he
later was able to "take up serpents without harm" -- I say that
because he put the brass serpent on the pole for the healing of
the people.
There appears to be a connection there -- between fear of God
and the knowledge of how to deal with the serpent. The OT says
the fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom. What kind of
wisdom? I think the kind that Jesus meant when he said to be as
gentle as the dove but as wise as the serpent. [quote
author=bradley link=topic=398.msg3503#msg3503 date=1451138809]
I think Moses was trained to not fear so easily. Not sure if
that training was from God or from man, but I can see its there.
[/quote]He started off fairly fearless of man. He struck the
Egyptian almost without thinking of what could happen to him;
and he also went after the men who were annoying Jethro's
daughters. Exodus doesn't say how many men were there; but
Moses went after them to defend the women.
#Post#: 3521--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sore Afraid
By: James Date: December 31, 2015, 1:31 pm
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So did Jesus know fear in the garden?
Was he very much aware of the presence of his Father God and
thus he prayed not my will but thine be done?
#Post#: 3522--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sore Afraid
By: Kerry Date: January 1, 2016, 6:15 am
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[quote author=James link=topic=398.msg3521#msg3521
date=1451590264]
So did Jesus know fear in the garden? [quote]I can't be sure,
but I doubt it since the fear of the LORD is the beginning of
wisdom. Nor can I be sure about whether Jesus was born with the
proper fear of the LORD; but I rather think he was. He didn't
have to learn it the hard way. I tend to think he was born
with it since Luke wrote:
Luke 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled
with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
Still the knowledge of the Power of God remains and serves to
keep us in line; so I think Jesus would have known he would be
severely punished if he ever disobeyed the Father. "To whom
much is given, much is required." After all the fate of the
world hung in the balance. If Jesus erred, it would affect the
whole world. This is a fearful thing to consider; and Jesus
was aware he would soon face the Father and then be judged.
There is a kind of disrespect found in Christianity where
people don't seem to take much of anything seriously. They
certainly don't believe God is a God of Justice who will reward
us according to our works although common sense tells us that
would be the case and the Bible also says as much. They seem
to think they can sin and it's okay. They seem to think God
will tolerate anything they do because He loves them; but they
forget God loves the people they are sinning against too. I
think Jesus was keenly aware that he would be judged according
to his works; and I think it "wise" for us to believe that too
instead of trying to talk ourselves into believing we are "safe"
when we need to continue progressing, working out our salvation
with fear and trembling.
[quote]Was he very much aware of the presence of his Father God
and thus he prayed not my will but thine be done?[/quote]I'm not
sure he was aware of the Presence of the Father. He was praying
to Him; but I'm not sure he felt that Presence. I rather
think Satan was there. I say that because of this:
Luke 4:13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he
departed from him for a season.
If he left "for a season," that would mean he came back. Luke
doesn't tell us when he came back; but I think it was in the
Garden of Gethesmane.
#Post#: 3523--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sore Afraid
By: Piper Date: January 1, 2016, 11:46 am
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[font=trebuchet ms]Hi, Kerry. :)
Was reading, and not sure I understand.
How could the Judge be judged? Or is it that IF Jesus had
disobeyed (as we all have), THEN He would have faced judgement?
I can't see that in His perfect unity with the Father He stood
much chance of failure (just as that is when WE fail-- when we
deny or defy the Spirit within), yet Jesus was, on earth, FULLY
human, so He faced temptation just as we do. So, yes, I suppose
He might, in His humanity, have failed. But, in His perfect
unity ("I and my father are one."), Jesus, though tempted, had
every power available to man to overcome. Perhaps we feel weak,
but are much stronger than we or anyone knows. He who is within
us is stronger than he who is in the world, and that includes
self.
Was Jesus afraid, as well as tempted, in Gethsemane? I think if
we believe He did not fully dread crucifixion as anyone in human
form would, we remove His humanity. We may not fear, or we may
even welcome death, but . . . HOW we die can still be feared.
Pain in the human form can be sheer agonizing horror. The way
Jesus died, sheer dreadful torture. Jesus' overcoming,
overpowering determination to "do this!" must have forced Him to
face His very human fear of suffering. To endure what was not
endurable, save with the grace of God our Father.
Courage is not being fearless; courage is staying the course of
obedience to God, even when we are 'sore afraid.' Courage is
action, despite fear, in the face of fear.
The Father tests us in this way, allows us to experience great
fear, despair, darkness, watches to see if we remain faithful.
We, in great suffering, are sorely tempted to "curse God and
die," yet we must be faithful as Jesus was faithful. We carry
that cross, we endure the taunts, the jibes, the separation,
isolation, the betrayals, the spitting, kicking crowds, and we
FOCUS on the cross, the crucifix, because the One who hangs
there is the One who gives us the strength and faith to
overcome. He feeds us, gives to us Water of Life. We have the
assurance we, too, will one day rise and leave these earthly
tribulations far behind. It is that Promise that helps us walk
through the fire and the flood; we walk, but are not burned,
will not drown.
If we are sore afraid, we grasp the divine determination within
us and we FIGHT.
One foot after the other, one day after another, with that cross
on our weary backs.
Jesus? Broken, but the greatest warrior. His path was paved
with sorrow, but He showed us how to carry our cross, how to
spit back at the darkness in the holiness of silent obedience,
submission, and determination.
Jesus, I believe was fully divine, but for awhile was fully
human, first-born, and He leads both those before and after Him.
That is how I see things, though I might wish such trials and
fears away. Though I might dread Gethsemane, it is there we are
closest to God, clinging desperately for Life. Seeking Real
Life, not life in these shadowlands. It is there we see how
fully our existence remains or will remain only because HE IS.
I see Jesus as a righteous warrior, and we stand with Him or we
fall. Sin is never okay. Sin IS our battleground, because sin
is what nails us to the cross. Love sets us free.
[/font]
#Post#: 3524--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sore Afraid
By: Piper Date: January 1, 2016, 12:30 pm
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[quote]There is a kind of disrespect found in Christianity
where people don't seem to take much of anything seriously.
They certainly don't believe God is a God of Justice who will
reward us according to our works although common sense tells us
that would be the case and the Bible also says as much. They
seem to think they can sin and it's okay. They seem to think
God will tolerate anything they do because He loves them; but
they forget God loves the people they are sinning against too.
I think Jesus was keenly aware that he would be judged according
to his works; and I think it "wise" for us to believe that too
instead of trying to talk ourselves into believing we are "safe"
when we need to continue progressing, working out our salvation
with fear and trembling. [/quote]
[font=trebuchet ms]Yes. I think I do understand. Jesus, at
least here, on earth, was vulnerable as we are vulnerable. We
are not "safe". We are at war. That's what I think. What I've
always seen and experienced. Darkness or Light? Which do we
choose?
Every minute, even as we sleep, we are making choices.
Jesus leads the way; it is up to us to follow. The road He
paved is not an easy one. But, I must believe, He walks beside
us. Always. Lives, even, within us, just as the bread and the
wine become part of us, so, too, is He.
We feel forsaken, but Light will shine in the darkness. Just a
matter of time 'til time is no more and eternity shines before
us.
Hold on, hold on, hold on! Never surrender.
(That's my pep talk to myself for today. ;) Carry on, soldier.)
I wish someone would scream those words at me when I feel alone
and defeated. It ain't over 'til it's over, you know? Who said
it was supposed to be easy? Anything worth having is worth
fighting for. Thus, the armor of God.[/font]
#Post#: 3525--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sore Afraid
By: James Date: January 1, 2016, 12:41 pm
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Heb-Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers
and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was
able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things
which he suffered;
As I see it Kerry Jesus was never born the perfect Son, he did
not have a natural inclination to obey. One of the first things
Jesus suffered was to come to the realization that he was
limited on earth and that he could also like Adam fail in his
task. I do not believe this verse means the final death he
undertook but the death he would have known if he had not kept
under his body.
Its one thing to be the prophetic lamb of God, it is another to
walk out the prophesy.
#Post#: 3527--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sore Afraid
By: Piper Date: January 1, 2016, 2:48 pm
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[quote]JAMES: Its one thing to be the prophetic lamb of God, it
is another to walk out the prophesy.
[/quote]
[font=trebuchet ms]Succinctly put, yes!
Imagine the weight! Literally, the weight of the whole world on
His shoulders. Prophecy demanded what seemed humanly
impossible.[/font]
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