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#Post#: 464--------------------------------------------------
Is this the action of a good being?
DIR By: HappyHeretic
Date: December 16, 2014, 6:17 am
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In John 9 we have the account of a man born blind. Here it is:
NIV UK:
--- Quote ---
> As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples
asked him, ‘Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he
was born blind?’
>
> ‘Neither this man nor his parents sinned,’ said Jesus, ‘but
this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in
him.
--- End Quote ---
KJV:
--- Quote ---
> And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his
birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin,
this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
>
> Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents:
but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
--- End Quote ---
Jesus then goes on to heal the man of his blindness.
Both new and old versions read as though the man's blindness was
caused by God in order that He could heal him at a later date.
Is this reading accurate?
If so, does this show God in a good light?
Mike HM
#Post#: 465--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is this the action of a good being?
DIR By: Kerry
Date: December 16, 2014, 6:39 am
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It is. Did you see the post I edited? I had included this in
a post about being "foreknown" by God and then decided the post
was already big enough and removed that part.
This is a very good question! I can give you my opinion.
How we read the Bible is a test. "To the impure, all things
are impure; to the pure, all things are pure."
I am confident that God did not afflict this man with blindness
just so Jesus could show off and look good. Perish such a
thought that would impute any wickedness to God. That man was
foreknown by God, and he agreed to do this; and there is more to
it than having Jesus perform a miracle to get attention. We
really should not believe that since Jesus said, "A wicked and
adulterous generation seeketh after a sign. . . ."
People may do such things, creating problems so they take credit
later for solving them. We should not impute such a human
weakness to God.
There are some people who are born with defects in order to
absorb them and bear them, lightening the load of the world.
They are elect and agreed to it.
#Post#: 466--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is this the action of a good being?
DIR By: HappyHeretic
Date: December 16, 2014, 6:47 am
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--- Quote from: DM ---
> I am confident that God did not afflict this man with
blindness just so Jesus could show off and look good. Perish
such a thought that would impute any wickedness to God.
--- End Quote ---
This we agree on :)
I'm not convinced by your "foreknown" argument and that the man
agreed to it, though.
Mike HM
#Post#: 468--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is this the action of a good being?
DIR By: Kerry
Date: December 16, 2014, 6:57 am
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--- Quote from: HereticMouse link ---
>
> This we agree on :)
>
> I'm not convinced by your "foreknown" argument and that the
man agreed to it, though.
>
> Mike HM
>
--- End Quote ---
You are left then deriving some other explanation unless you
have one already, or resigning yourself to admitting the matter
is beyond you. If we say a passage is beyond us, that passage
in the Bible is not "profitable" then, is it -- and that is not
a satisfactory position.
#Post#: 469--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is this the action of a good being?
DIR By: Alfie
Date: December 16, 2014, 7:22 am
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As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth.
well let us reason this out :
---------------------------------- OK; who is this man ?
answer ; he is all of mankind
he is blind ; he is out of the family of God
His disciples asked him, ‘Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his
parents, that he was born blind?’
yep; lets us play the blame game * but the answer given is not
what we expect
‘Neither this man nor his parents sinned,
sinned someone did
but note its not him ; nor is it his born blind parents
the cause of this sin came before born blindness came into being
( Adam & Eve)
said Jesus, ‘but this happened so that the works of God might
be displayed in him.
THIS PARTICULAR MAN WAS BORN BLIND
AT THIS TIME
AND PUT INTO THIS VERY PLACE
TO BE USED BY GOD
TO BRING THIS STORY OUT TO US
US OF THEN ; US OF NOW --- we all start off as born blind
IS THIS THE ACTION OF A GOOD BEING?
rather than judge good or bad
we might want to learn the story first
as opposed to dealing with a ( rabbit trail ) portion of the
story --- imo
#Post#: 471--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is this the action of a good being?
DIR By: HappyHeretic
Date: December 16, 2014, 7:33 am
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--- Quote from: Danger Mouse link ---
>
> You are left then deriving some other explanation unless you
have one already, or resigning yourself to admitting the matter
is beyond you. If we say a passage is beyond us, that passage
in the Bible is not "profitable" then, is it -- and that is not
a satisfactory position.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hmm. I see why you raise the ire of some people.
Making assumptions about people like that is not normally the
best way.
I'll do a deal with you - I won't make personal comments against
you and you don't make personal comments against me.
Deal?
Regards,
Mike HM
#Post#: 473--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is this the action of a good being?
DIR By: Kerry
Date: December 16, 2014, 8:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: HereticMouse link ---
>
> Hmm. I see why you raise the ire of some people.
>
> Making assumptions about people like that is not normally the
best way.
>
> I'll do a deal with you - I won't make personal comments
against you and you don't make personal comments against me.
>
> Deal?
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike HM
>
--- End Quote ---
What else should I say to someone after he tells me I failed to
convince him? Launch more arguments over it to the point of
tedium? I was telling you it is your affair, not mine, what
you believe. It's not my job to keep trying to convince you
after you say I failed to convince. I believed you. I was
ready to drop the subject and then pointed out the logical
alternatives if you didn't like my idea.
I thought those were ironclad logical statements. I have no
idea if you have an explanation or not. What part of that
post was illogical or personal? I don't think it was; but I
think I may have hit a nerve for one reason or another. No, I
have no idea why that would be. Perhaps you don't like the
logical alternatives?
People amaze me. The Orthodox priest I just mentioned accused
me of questioning his legitimacy as a priest when all I had done
was question the legitimacy of some of the titles of the
Patriarch of Constantinople. I happen to believe the Patriarch
is a proper Bishop, but I don't think the title "Ecumenical
Patriarch" is valid. Somehow that got made into a personal
comment about his legitimacy as a priest? He thought so.
I see you highlighted the words, "resigning yourself to
admitting the matter is beyond you." Is that the sore point?
Some people do that. They give up. I hope you are not one of
those people; but if you are, my last statement still stands
since it's a logical conclusion. If you are still looking for
an explanation or have one already, the "resigning" bit wouldn't
apply to you. You know the truth of the matter. I do not; but
I do know what the alternatives are.
#Post#: 475--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is this the action of a good being?
DIR By: HappyHeretic
Date: December 16, 2014, 8:57 am
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I bolded the bit of your post I found somewhat objectionable.
I don't give up in my search for the good God, where God appears
to be portrayed as less than good.
Back to the topic, please. And don't try to convince me,
Danger Mouse, you won't.
HM
#Post#: 480--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is this the action of a good being?
DIR By: Helen
Date: December 16, 2014, 1:51 pm
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--- Quote from: Al link ---
>
> As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth.
>
> well let us reason this out------------------- OK; who is this
man ?
>
> answer ; he is all of mankind
>
> he is blind ; he is out of the family of God
>
>
> His disciples asked him, ‘Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his
parents, that he was born blind?’
>
> yep; lets us play the blame game * but the answer given is not
what we expect
>
>
> ‘Neither this man nor his parents sinned,
> sinned someone did
> but note its not him ; nor is it his born blind parents
>
>
> the cause of this sin came before born blindness came into
being ( Adam & Eve)
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Patrick, I thought that was excellent! A thought that I had
never thought of!
I once heard someone preach on this...he moved the comma's and
periods around and it made so much more sence. Trouble is...I
have forgotten what he said, I just remember it was good!!
haha! ;D
#Post#: 481--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is this the action of a good being?
DIR By: A nonny mouse
Date: December 16, 2014, 3:29 pm
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--- Quote from: Helen link ---
>
> Patrick, I thought that was excellent! A thought that I had
never thought of!
> I once heard someone preach on this...he moved the comma's and
periods around and it made so much more sence. Trouble is...I
have forgotten what he said, I just remember it was good!!
haha! ;D
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
So I was right all along when I thought that 'Al' was our
brother who I thought I remembered as 'Patrick'.
So now my question to Al is "may I change your username to
'Patrick'?
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