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#Post#: 3059--------------------------------------------------
Kim Davis
By: Kerry Date: September 9, 2015, 5:49 am
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I was amazed when I found out that Kim Davis, the county clerk
in Kentucky who refuses to issue marriage licenses to gays
because it's against her religion, has been married four times
herself! Get a grip, Kim. If heterosexuals can get married
four times, wouldn't it be fair to let gay people get married
and give it a try?
I also wonder what Davis would say if a Catholic county clerk
told her, "Sorry, Miss Davis, I can't give you another marriage
license because my religion teaches me people can't get married
again if they are divorced. You can't expect me to go against
my religion, can you?"
The defiant Kentucky clerk who will not issue gay marriage
licenses has been married four times and had twins out of
wedlock, court records revealed.
Kim Davis, who on Tuesday continued to refuse the licenses
despite a Supreme Court ruling against her, divorced in 1994,
2006 and 2008.
Davis, 49, gave birth to twins five months after she divorced
her first husband. The twins' father was identified as her third
husband, according to records obtained by the U.S. News and
World Report. Davis' second husband adopted the twins after they
wed. She has been married twice to her current husband, Ed
Davis.
Read more:
HTML http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3219147/Kentucky-clerk-Kim-Davis-married-FOUR-times-gave-birth-wedlock.html#ixzz3lElARD7U<br
/>
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Sorry, but I do not think this woman is in a position to
lecturing others about morality. I wonder what Jesus might tell
her if he met her. But then the woman at the well had had five
husbands when Jesus told her, "he whom thou now hast is not thy
husband."

#Post#: 3060--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kim Davis
By: Amadeus Date: September 9, 2015, 2:23 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=349.msg3059#msg3059
date=1441795747]
Sorry, but I do not think this woman is in a position to
lecturing others about morality. I wonder what Jesus might tell
her if he met her. But then the woman at the well had had five
husbands when Jesus told her, "he whom thou now hast is not thy
husband."
[/quote]
You may be correct but what do we know?
It may be important that she claims to have started serving God
in the year 2011, well after her last divorce. Nonetheless, you
may still be correct. The problem may be that she had the right
purpose and sincerely believed or believes that she has done
the right thing here without really knowing exactly what the
right thing is.
So then how would God judge her actions? Can we really know?
#Post#: 3065--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kim Davis
By: Kerry Date: September 9, 2015, 8:10 pm
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[quote author=Amadeus link=topic=349.msg3060#msg3060
date=1441826584]
You may be correct but what do we know?
It may be important that she claims to have started serving God
in the year 2011, well after her last divorce. Nonetheless, you
may still be correct. The problem may be that she had the right
purpose and sincerely believed or believes that she has done
the right thing here without really knowing exactly what the
right thing is.
So then how would God judge her actions? Can we really know?
[/quote]I think we can have a pretty good idea.
Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:
and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you
again.
If she sinned greatly and repented and feels forgiven, why is
she so worried about others do? Can't God get them too if He
wants them? Can she stop people from being gay or having gay
sex? Or does she think they won't have sex if they're not
married? Why is she so judgmental and trying to be so
controlling of others?
She also seems to be unable to decide whom to serve: God or
mammon. If something her job entails goes against her
conscience, why doesn't she resign?
She is also defying legitimate authority, something Christians
are told not to do. Catholics issued marriage licenses to
divorced people. If we have any Muslim county clerks, they
don't apply their religious standards -- by sharia law, a
Christian woman can marry a Muslim man, but a Muslim woman can't
marry a Christian man. We would outraged if a Muslim did that.
I know I would be offended. People shouldn't work for the
government if they think part of their job is applying their
religious standard on others. I also object to Muslim taxi
drivers who refuse service to people with dogs. They shouldn't
be driving taxis then; but government work is even more serious
since we don't want a government with a religious basis.
In a way though, I feel sorry for her since I think she's being
used and manipulated by Matt Staver. I wonder if he'd take the
same approach if it was him who went to jail? I think he's a
rascal, and didn't care if she went to jail or not. In a way,
it probably helped him raise money at Liberty Counsel. Want
to donate money to Liberty Counsel? Here's how:
HTML http://www.lc.org/index.cfm?PID=23329

She's accomplishing nothing positive, but she is making
Christians look bad. The truth is I think she doesn't feel
completely forgiven about her past; and if that's true, again I
feel sorry for her. I say that because I think if she felt
forgiven and knew the power of forgiveness, she wouldn't fret so
about how others may be sinning in her eyes.
Christians often cite Romans 1 to condemn gay people but neglect
to cite what follows in chapter 2; and it does seem worth citing
to me since it seems a critical part of Christianity to me, this
belief and faith in the forgiveness of sins when people repent.
If we condemn others, what are we saying? Are we saying some
sins are too big for God to forgive? You know the passage, but
it's a good one so let me repeat it:
Romans 2:2 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou
art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou
condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth
against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such
things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment
of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance
and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth
thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto
thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the
righteous judgment of God;
I think sin still lies at her door somehow; and that is a pity.
I don't know what church she attends, but it doesn't seem to be
a good one if you ask me, not when she is emphasizing the sin
angle so much and fretting over her part in things and seemingly
forgetting about the power of forgiveness.
#Post#: 3068--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kim Davis
By: Amadeus Date: September 9, 2015, 9:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Kerry link=topic=349.msg3065#msg3065
date=1441847435]
I think we can have a pretty good idea.
Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:
and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you
again.[/quote]
Perhaps we can but not being in the person's shoes, who am I to
decide what her decisions should be? Probably she is in error
and if so hopefully someone will come to provide her with some
good advice. Her circumstance may have been caused in part by
listening to bad advice.
[quote]If she sinned greatly and repented and feels forgiven,
why is she so worried about others do? Can't God get them too
if He wants them? Can she stop people from being gay or having
gay sex? Or does she think they won't have sex if they're not
married? Why is she so judgmental and trying to be so
controlling of others?[/quote]
New Christians have frequently had similar problems.
Unfortunately, too many ministers in a position to help are
likely to give the wrong advice.
[quote]She also seems to be unable to decide whom to serve: God
or mammon. If something her job entails goes against her
conscience, why doesn't she resign?[/quote]
You or I may understand about God or mammon, but would it
surprise us to learn that she did not or that no one had taught
her what scripture really says or means? As to quitting her
job, that is not as simple for many people as that... assuming
that they even understand that it might be the best thing to do.
Does she?
[quote]She is also defying legitimate authority, something
Christians are told not to do. Catholics issued marriage
licenses to divorced people. If we have any Muslim county
clerks, they don't apply their religious standards -- by sharia
law, a Christian woman can marry a Muslim man, but a Muslim
woman can't marry a Christian man. We would outraged if a
Muslim did that. I know I would be offended. People shouldn't
work for the government if they think part of their job is
applying their religious standard on others. I also object to
Muslim taxi drivers who refuse service to people with dogs.
They shouldn't be driving taxis then; but government work is
even more serious since we don't want a government with a
religious basis.[/quote]
All of these things that you know about what has happened in our
natural world and what is happening are not things that everyone
knows. Man's law and God's law say something about ignorance
being no excuse, but the exact reason for ignorance can make a
difference in both cases. In God's case will He not always be
fair?
[quote]In a way though, I feel sorry for her since I think she's
being used and manipulated by Matt Staver. I wonder if he'd
take the same approach if it was him who went to jail? I think
he's a rascal, and didn't care if she went to jail or not. In
a way, it probably helped him raise money at Liberty Counsel.
Want to donate money to Liberty Counsel? Here's how:
HTML http://www.lc.org/index.cfm?PID=23329

[quote]New Christians have frequently had similar problems.
Unfortunately, too many ministers in a position to help are
likely to give the wrong advice. [/quote]And if she keeps
trusting the wrong of men, she may not marry a fifth time, but
she could still have lots of problems.
[quote]You or I may understand about God or mammon, but would it
surprise us to learn that she did not or that no one had taught
her what scripture really says or means? As to quitting her
job, that is not as simple for many people as that... assuming
that they even understand that it might be the best thing to do.
Does she? [/quote]
It's an elective office. That's not something you can count on.
It's not a job you take where the employer can't fire you
without having a good reason. Do you remember the hyped up
news from Dover, Pennsylvania about teaching evolution in
school? That's not too far from where I live. The next
election, all those people who made such a ridiculous row out of
it and racked up legal fees were voted out. It wouldn't
surprise me if Davis gets voted out next election.
[quote]All of these things that you know about what has happened
in our natural world and what is happening are not things that
everyone knows. Man's law and God's law say something about
ignorance being no excuse, but the exact reason for ignorance
can make a difference in both cases. In God's case will He not
always be fair?
Christians making Christians look bad is nothing new. Sometimes
they are really so ignorant that they simply do not understand.
How much to blame is a person his own such ignorance in such
matters? [/quote]
Then pride would be the sin. We should know and admit it when
we don't know. Pretending we know when we don't is acting out
of pride.
[quote]But... with all of that has she ever moved from "milk to
meat"? This is a real question to which God certainly knows the
answer regarding Kim Davis. [/quote]I wonder if that could be
true about her minister. Having a title doesn't automatically
grant people wisdom.
[quote]And here you hit a very important point. There are not
too many "good ones" around that really do a good job of teach
and preaching and providing good examples for the newcomers to
follow. This would necessarily leave blameless, but it is
something and God and man should consider before casting her
down too harshly.[/quote]
I can't imagine she's enjoying any of this. She surely couldn't
have enjoyed being in jail. And she can't win anything. She
surely isn't to convince gays to stop being gay by doing what
she's doing.
She could have thought about her own case. She didn't become a
Christian because someone told her she could not have more
marriage licenses. She got the first one and then three more
without anyone preaching at her. So we know that she didn't
become a Christian because a government clerk told her he
couldn't give her another marriage license.
I get the feeling that she is self-centered and lacks empathy
for others. Women like that can be abused easily by
manipulative men. Whisper a few sweet nothings in their ears,
and they'll believe almost anything. That's my best guess
about what her problem is; but of course, I don't know that and
am only guessing.
#Post#: 3076--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kim Davis
By: Kerry Date: September 12, 2015, 12:15 am
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Here's a different news story but it follows a similar pattern
where someone in the government or in business thinks he should
impose his religious ideas on others. This time, it's some
pro-abortion people who refused to do business with someone who
wanted fliers printed. From cbslocal.com
HTML http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2015/09/11/office-depot-defends-employees-refusal-to-make-copies-of-anti-abortion-hate-material/:
A suburban Chicago woman is accusing Office Depot of religious
discrimination, saying employees told her that making copies of
an anti-abortion prayer violated company policy.
Last month, Maria Goldstein, a Roman Catholic, asked employees
at an Office Depot location in Schaumburg, Ill., to make 500
copies of �A Prayer for Planned Parenthood�, the Associated
Press reported.
It sounds like a business thinking it has a religious role in
society to me.
Company spokeswoman Karen Denning tells the Chicago Tribune that
Office Depot prohibits the copying of material that advocates
�the persecution of certain groups of people,� among other
criteria. She says the flier �contained material that advocates
the persecution of people who support abortion rights.�
What craziness. That's not advocating persecution of anyone.
Shame on you, Office Depot. I could understand an employee
making a mistake like that; but when the company says, "Yes,
that's right," then there is really something wrong. Why do
people seem to be losing their minds? If you're in business,
you do business. That may mean making cakes for gay people or
printing fliers for Catholics -- do the business you allege your
company wants to do.
I suppose if I wanted to have a flier printed up advocating that
children should be protected from child molesters, Office Depot
could say that too was advocating the persecution of people who
want to molest children. I hope the Catholics sue. Almost
any political position could be said to be persecution of some
group or another.
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