DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Religious Convictions
HTML https://religiousconvictions.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Religious Discussions
*****************************************************
#Post#: 3033--------------------------------------------------
Re: Falling!
By: Oneoff Date: September 2, 2015, 9:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Must be approaching time for another stab at 'The Divine purpose
of Confusion'. ;)
#Post#: 3034--------------------------------------------------
Re: Falling!
By: Kerry Date: September 2, 2015, 11:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I am wondering if it is time for Babylon to fall. The
confusion in all the denominations seems like the confusion
wrought at Babel it to me.
Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice,
saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become
the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and
a cage of every unclean and hateful bird..
Robertson appears to talk without thinking. If God killed
babies so they wouldn't grow up to be like Hitler, why didn't
God kill Hitler when he was a baby?
Here Robertson is explaining how God protected a man from
marrying a woman who later become disabled. God was being
merciful by doing this so the man wouldn't have to care for the
woman; but he doesn't seem to think the woman deserved God's
mercy.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up0TUUbOSXY
#Post#: 3035--------------------------------------------------
Re: Falling!
By: Kerry Date: September 2, 2015, 2:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Oneoff link=topic=344.msg3033#msg3033
date=1441203704]
Must be approaching time for another stab at 'The Divine purpose
of Confusion'. ;)
[/quote]Don't blame "God" for that. God is not the author of
confusion. When the Old Testament says "God" did this or
that, it can mean almost anything. Thus we read in one place
that "the LORD" provoked David to count the people; but
elsewhere it says Satan did it.
Parts of God can break off from God, like branches severed from
a tree. Man in his fallen state is like that. In one way, he
is part of God; but in another way, he isn't. There is a
purpose to it though -- there I agree. When the "satanic"
breaks off from the Tree of Life, we experience it as
punishment and confusion. We're apt to blame "God" for it, but
I can't see it.
The Bible is so vague on the point, I can't think right now of
a single place where the ONE is mentioned. What is mentioned
are various manifestations of the ONE; and everything that
happens is a manifestation of the ONE. All natural events and
all supernatural events are manifestations of the ONE, one way
or another. That is all there is, just the ONE. All else is
illusion. Quote from Blavatksy:
[quote]And now, rest ‘neath the Bodhi tree, which is perfection
of all knowledge, for, know, thou art the Master of SAMÂDHI —
the state of faultless vision.[/quote]
Or in Christian terms, "at the Cross." When the false self
is crucified.
[quote]Behold! thou hast become the light, thou hast become the
Sound, thou art thy Master and thy God. Thou art THYSELF the
object of thy search: the VOICE unbroken, that resounds
throughout eternities, exempt from change, from sin exempt, the
seven sounds in one, the
VOICE OF THE SILENCE[/quote]As John put, "We shall be like him
for we shall see him as he is." Man is part of God. "The
Man" -- or h'adam in Hebrew -- is in Heaven. This is why Jesus
said the Son of Man came down from Heaven and is in Heaven.
A lot of Christian theology strikes me as slightly Satanic since
it portrays man as worthless. If man is a worthless creature,
then we must also say God made a big mistake when making him.
This portrayal of man as worthless is part of the illusion -- of
shame and blame. It is the illusion the serpent got Eve to
"swallow."
We tend to we see God the way we see ourselves. If we can't
recognize the "image and likeness of God" in ourselves, what are
the odds of recognizing it "out there" somewhere? There may be
some truth in the statement that men create God in their own
image. "Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God."
Yet all these projections, not matter how different they are
and how confusing they are, are all manifestations of the ONE.
Could you believe that "Man" as the spiritual creature, part of
God, plays a part in creating heaven and hell? Yes, I believe
that. Things are very relative. What we perceive as "truth"
can become the truth as we create our own realities. The
interesting thing about the "material world" is how hard it is
to change. Our belief in its solidity and permanence make it
that way. Yet science tells us it's not that way. All
matter can be resolved back into light as Einstein showed.
#Post#: 3036--------------------------------------------------
Re: Falling!
By: Oneoff Date: September 2, 2015, 2:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Kerry link=topic=344.msg3034#msg3034
date=1441209693]
I am wondering if it is time for Babylon to fall. The
confusion in all the denominations seems like the confusion
wrought at Babel it to me.
Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice,
saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become
the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and
a cage of every unclean and hateful bird..
[/quote]
Personally I would caution against giving too much literal
credibility to Revelation.
It was just about the last New Testament book to receive general
acceptance.
John, at the assumed time of writing, was a 90 year old man,
imprisoned on Patmos, with only a stone slab, within a cave, for
shelter and sleep.
He had been raised as a devout Jew, with considerable ‘Old
Testament’ indoctrination, and it seems likely that he wrote in
a state of ‘old age’ hallucination, coloured by Old Testament
writings (Daniel in particular), and coloured by Jewish legends
such as Gehenna and its underlying ‘Lake of fire’.
#Post#: 3037--------------------------------------------------
Re: Falling!
By: Oneoff Date: September 2, 2015, 2:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Kerry link=topic=344.msg3035#msg3035
date=1441221905]
God is not the author of confusion.
[/quote]
Forgive me for picking on just that bit, but it is one of the
many 'chips on my shoulders'.
In the passage from which it is taken, it is an 'opposite' to
'peace' that is being referred to.
And the opposite of peace is 'tumult' rather than 'confusion'.
Indeed YLT does in fact translate the original greek word as
'tumult'.
#Post#: 3038--------------------------------------------------
Re: Falling!
By: Oneoff Date: September 2, 2015, 2:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Quote from Blavatksy:
"And now, rest ‘neath the Bodhi tree, which is perfection of all
knowledge, for, know, thou art the Master of SAMÂDHI — the state
of faultless vision."
Or in Christian terms, "at the Cross." When the false self
is crucified.
Interestingly, we have a chap who promotes Buddhism regularly in
our local village magazine, and he is constantly drawing
parallels with Christianity.
But if we aren't careful about how much reference we make to
Buddhism, we will be left with only you and me posting in this
forum. :) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::)
#Post#: 3039--------------------------------------------------
Re: Falling!
By: Kerry Date: September 2, 2015, 7:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Oneoff link=topic=344.msg3038#msg3038
date=1441223859]
Quote from Blavatksy:
"And now, rest ‘neath the Bodhi tree, which is perfection of all
knowledge, for, know, thou art the Master of SAMÂDHI — the state
of faultless vision."
Or in Christian terms, "at the Cross." When the false self
is crucified.
Interestingly, we have a chap who promotes Buddhism regularly in
our local village magazine, and he is constantly drawing
parallels with Christianity.
But if we aren't careful about how much reference we make to
Buddhism, we will be left with only you and me posting in this
forum. :) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::)
[/quote]You tempt me to divulge a vision I had of Gautama; and
perhaps it's foolish to write about since I realize it's hard to
explain; but first let me quote the Scriptures about people who
rail and condemn things they don't understand:
2 Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the
lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are
they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of
dignities.
Jude 1:8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh,
despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
I had lost all faith in Christianity some years before, studied
magic and experimented with Scientology. Still I was left
frustrated; and one day I asked myself, "What do you know that
is worth knowing?" Now I "knew" lots of things, but that's
like knowing the phone numbers in the telephone book of people i
don't know and will never call. Facts, yes -- but it all struck
me as futile.
I decided to investigate further. Surely if there was a way to
know anything, maybe I could find it. I bought a book on
Buddhism and started meditating. One day I was meditating,
Buddha himself appeared in front of me. I was so happy to see
him; but I was soon disappointed because he told me I was not
meant to be a Buddhist. I was not meant to follow him. I
asked who I should follow; and he would not tell me. He said it
was something I had to find out on my own. Then I asked him
if he would help me while I looked. He said he would; and he
did. Then I decided to read the Bible straight through. And
something happened to me reading Psalm 15. It resonated with
me. It rang a bell; and I "knew" it was true.
Again my pleasure did not last long. All I knew was that one
Psalm was true. Maybe I should be Jewish, maybe Muslim, maybe
Christian, who knows? But eventually I came to understand
what Buddha told me. There are still days when I'd prefer to
be a Buddhist, but I can't be. That's hard to explain.
I also once saw Jesus and Buddha together. They are great
friends. People should be cautious about who they condemn.
Studying the story of Buddha under the Bodhi tree is
fascinating. The parallels to Christianity are striking.
I think I can say honestly that I can see elements of truth in
most religions. I say sometimes if you could understand one
religion correctly, you'd understand all the others. I can
read the Hindu story of creation and it makes wonderful sense to
me. I read once too about an American Indian tribe that said
Crow went down into the ocean and pulled the earth up. That too
is right. It astounds me at times what different religions
know. But it's so very easy to misunderstand them; and frankly
I think maybe Christians understand their religion less than
almost any other unless it's Hindus where the general population
is incredibly superstitious and kept that way by their religious
leaders.
I also found what I learned in Buddhism and Judaism quite useful
when I got around to reading Revelation. Buddhists talk about
the "rainbow body." Revelation talks about spiritual beings
with rainbows, and Jesus compared "something" to pearls which
are somewhat rainbow-like.
I was quite pleased when I heard the Catholic Church said
Buddhism and Judaism are valid. Of course, they go on to say
their religion is superior -- but I'm not sure about that. I
think maybe Christianity is for the hard-headed and stiff-necked
people who may benefit from an obscure religion.
Christians often like to portray themselves as "special" the way
Jews did in Jesus' day. Maybe they are. Remember how Jesus
told his close Jewish followers that "few" will find the strait
and narrow way -- and then the same day after seeing the Roman
said "many" would sit down in the kingdom. Don't you find it
odd that Jesus didn't try to convert the Roman to Judaism, just
commended his faith. So far as I can tell, Jesus never asked
any Gentiles to convert.
#Post#: 3040--------------------------------------------------
Re: Falling!
By: Kerry Date: September 2, 2015, 8:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]Interestingly, we have a chap who promotes Buddhism
regularly in our local village magazine, and he is constantly
drawing parallels with Christianity.
But if we aren't careful about how much reference we make to
Buddhism, we will be left with only you and me posting in this
forum. :) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::)[/quote]Do you think he
might be interested in joining our tiny forum? That way it
wouldn't be just you and me. I might even learn a thing or
two.
At last count, how many people do you think may have been
driven away? Not to worry. Didn't everyone forsake Jesus? We
can't be guided by that then.
My suspicion when people flee sites over disagreements is they
are posting more to convince themselves than others. If you poke
holes in their theories, they get nervous. On the other hand,
if you agree with them, they feel they must be right since you
agree. Such types are easy to manipulate if you want to use
flattery and never dare to disagree with them; but I say with
Elihu:
Job 32:22 For I know not to give flattering titles; in so doing
my maker would soon take me away.
#Post#: 3042--------------------------------------------------
Re: Falling!
By: Oneoff Date: September 3, 2015, 3:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I had assume my local man was a Buddhist, but I think he is in
fact a Bahá'í follower.
But, if I could persuade him to join RC, maybe yet another
similar variant would be a more enlightening addition than that
of a Buddhist, with which faith you are obviously already well
acquainted.
Here is one of his recent adverts which seems to fit well with
what you have been suggesting:-
WHAT WAS THE PATTERN FOR THE MYTH?
Everyone knows that God did not create the world in six days and
rest on the seventh, as we are told in Genesis (the fossil
records in the rocks are proof enough of that).
So what was the pattern for the myth?
In the book of Daniel, King Nebuchadnezzar had the mind of a
beast until seven times passed over him. On the seventh day the
walls of Jericho fell down flat. Why seven days?
The pattern was the seven heads, the seven hills, the seven
kings, the seven thunders, the seven horns, the seven eyes, the
seven seals, the seven stars, the seven spirits, and the seven
angels of the church of the saints, as recorded in Revelation.
The pattern for the creation myth of Genesis was the everlasting
priesthood, God’s heavenly host, the Church.
For more secrets see our book THE SECRETS OF THE HOLY GRAIL.
(Phone 07887 793666)
I don’t quite see how stuff written in Revelation (even if being
rewritten stuff from Daniel) can have been the pattern for stuff
written so much earlier (in Geneses)……unless of course ‘Genesis’
was in fact written after ‘Daniel’.
#Post#: 3043--------------------------------------------------
Re: Falling!
By: Amadeus Date: September 3, 2015, 12:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]Amadeus: The main difference believers and Jesus is that
from the start when confronted with garbage Jesus never it enter
in and take a place in him.[/quote]
[quote]Kerry: I'd say it was in his mind but he refused to let
the seeds of evil take root. What about taking serpents
without harm and consuming poison without injury? And in what
way did Jesus take the sins of others on himself, becoming sin,
becoming cursed? [/quote]
We don't disagree on that 2nd part. I agree with your above
point. I failed to properly state the situation in my statement.
[Quote]Amadeus: The rest of us have taken in the garbage and
intellect was unable to distinguish between the garbage and
"good" food without being led by the Holy Ghost. Unlike Jesus,
the rest of us did not start out with a clean slate and the Word
and the Spirit of God.[/quote]
[quote]Kerry: Not sure what you mean by "intellect" there; but I
believe if we have the right kind of mind, we can do or at
least begin to do what Jesus did.[quote]
Again we are agreed. Sometimes coming up the right word to
communicate is in itself a challenge. We are to be growing
toward having the "right kind of mind". When we miss the mark,
it is likely a sign that our mind is still in need of
improvement.
[quote] Evil can be changed or transmuted by the proper kind of
Mind. The "righteous" man can receive evil, change it and
return it back to the world as good. Thus "sin" is "taken
away." [/quote]
I'd have to think about this, but it does seem to be correct.
[Quote]Amadeus:
Consider these verses:
"When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh
through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came
out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and
garnished.
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more
wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the
last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it
be also unto this wicked generation." Matt 12:43-45
The Holy Ghost when received will begin to clean out the garbage
we have consumed during our previous carnal life, but if the
space in us which previously held garbage is not filled with
something "good", we will end up worse that we were before.
The best faith comes when we come in as a small child with
little experience in the evil experiences of this world. Too
often such a child's faith is corrupted by his parents or his
friends or even his ministers. The longer have lived without God
or with too little of God in our hearts, the greater are the
obstacles that stand between us and God. For any man alone the
obstacle are indeed too great to overcome, but for God, "nothing
is impossible".[/quote]
[quote]It seems the "heart" which once attracted the unclean
spirit needs to be changed.[/quote]
Yes, but while the process of such a change may be ultimately
simple, explaining it might not be.
*****************************************************
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page