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#Post#: 252--------------------------------------------------
Thoughts
By: Helen Date: December 6, 2014, 7:10 pm
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This site is called RELIGIOUS CONVICTIONS...not too much going
on with what we DO each HOLD as "convictions"...so, what about
all our NONE convictions?
There are many things that I am still "open" on, and not
convicted as a firm doctrine.
Probably no single doctrine has caused such a fuss in groups
from the time of the Trinity's conception, and even today. The
Once Saved Always Saved doctrine comes as runner up somewhere,
but not near as strong as the Trinity Doctrine I would guess.
Most believers I would say "believe in the Trinity doctrine".
The thing is ,they/we/me... don't exactly know what they believe
in, but only things they/we have picked up and heard.
I have never believed anything else, as I was never taught
anything else. I hold it as truth because nothing else has
changed my mind or heart.
Jesus is *GOD, yet He is not the Father, nor the Holy Spirit,
yet co- creator, the same substance as God the Father. The Holy
Spirit is GOD, yet He not the Father or the Son. The Father is
GOD but He is not the Son or The Spirit ( yet I feel The Spirit
is the very "felt presence" of the Father) God is ONE God.
Is that the Trinity Doctrine ?
Or are there variations?
I have NEVER "looked at it" just taken it as a given. *GOD is
the I AM
But right now I just remember!! Isaiah 9 :6 "For unto us a
child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall
be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful,
Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of
Peace."
I don't know how much I don't know!!
I trust this will be a discussion whatever the views are which
get expressed, and not just a hot potato that upsets anyone.
✟
#Post#: 254--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thoughts
By: Ezra Date: December 6, 2014, 8:47 pm
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Helen,
The best way to understand the doctrine of the Trinity (or the
triune Godhead) is to believe that in Scripture God has indeed
revealed Himself, but we cannot fully understand "the mystery of
God" (Col 2:2; Rev 10:7), which is "the essence" of God.
The Bible clearly teaches that within the Godhead we have:
[center]God the FATHER
God the SON (God the WORD)
God the HOLY SPIRIT [/center]
In Hebrews 1:8-14, God the Father addressed God the Son as God,
and tells us that the Son is the Creator of this universe (Jn
1:1-3). The Holy Spirit is called "the Spirit of God" at the
creation (Gen 1:2) and God the Father is Himself also the
Creator (Gen 1:1). There are numerous Scriptures which
corroborate the fact that there is one God, eternally existent
as three Divine Persons (Mt 28:19).
The reason this doctrine has become a stumbling block is because
it defies human reason and humanistic reasoning. Thus we have
false Christianity and false cults teaching Unitarianism. Also,
both Judaism and Islam reject this truth, as well as the truth
about the Deity of Christ. But anyone who rejects these
doctrines cannot be saved (1 Jn 5:1-21).
#Post#: 256--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thoughts
By: Helen Date: December 6, 2014, 10:17 pm
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Thank you very much for your very helpful post Ezra....I have
usually avoided it as it sets my head spinning!!
[quote][size=12pt]quote Ezra:-
The reason this doctrine has become a stumbling block is because
it defies human reason and humanistic reasoning. [/quote]
Yep...I knew I had a good reason for not trying to "reason it"
all out!
It is a "knowing in The Spirit" ...I cannot grab it with my
mind. :D
#Post#: 266--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thoughts
By: Poppy Date: December 7, 2014, 6:03 am
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I think the best description of the three in one Godhead is in
Isaiah 9:6-7
#Post#: 267--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thoughts
By: Kerry Date: December 7, 2014, 6:44 am
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Jesus' name is "Everlasting Father"?
#Post#: 268--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thoughts
By: Poppy Date: December 7, 2014, 7:01 am
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That's what it says to me. Who else is it?
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace
#Post#: 270--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thoughts
By: Kerry Date: December 7, 2014, 7:56 am
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[quote author=Harvest mouse link=topic=30.msg268#msg268
date=1417957261]
That's what it says to me. Who else is it?
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace
[/quote]I would say it has two interpretations. First we
shouldn't be misled by the names. People often gave their
children names that honored God. It doesn't mean they thought
their children were God.
The first way this passage can be interpreted is about the child
Hezekiah. Although Ahaz was wicked, his child is predicted to
be a blessing. The verbs are "perfect" there. The child has
already been born, has already been given. The prophecy part
lies in the future, that Hezekiah would assume the throne --
that the government would be on his shoulders. Hezekiah's
reign was peaceful.
The other way of interpreting it is to take Hezekiah as a type
of King Messiah whose government was not of this world, and
whose peace also is not of this world.
#Post#: 272--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thoughts
By: Poppy Date: December 7, 2014, 8:17 am
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[quote author=Danger Mouse link=topic=30.msg270#msg270
date=1417960602]
I would say it has two interpretations. First we shouldn't be
misled by the names. People often gave their children names
that honored God. It doesn't mean they thought their children
were God.
The first way this passage can be interpreted is about the child
Hezekiah. Although Ahaz was wicked, his child is predicted to
be a blessing. The verbs are "perfect" there. The child has
already been born, has already been given. The prophecy part
lies in the future, that Hezekiah would assume the throne --
that the government would be on his shoulders. Hezekiah's
reign was peaceful.
The other way of interpreting it is to take Hezekiah as a type
of King Messiah whose government was not of this world, and
whose peace also is not of this world.
[/quote]
Well, I've never seen or heard that particular passage
interpreted in that way before. All the Christmas carol
services I have ever been to start off with that reading.
Hezekiah eh? The Prince of Peace etc - who would have thought
it?
#Post#: 282--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thoughts
By: Helen Date: December 7, 2014, 10:11 am
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[quote]quote D.M. The other way of interpreting it is to take
Hezekiah as a type of King Messiah whose government was not of
this world, and whose peace also is not of this world.
[/quote]
That's how I read it. I'm not sure that even Isaiah totally
understood what he was prophesying..how many prophests do?
Sometimes we put them up on pedestals as if they were super
human...they were yielded vessels who heard God speak and
obediently passed on the message to Gods people.
Yes Pat...I love Isaiah 9.6....
Though I still cant say that I "understand" what is called- The
Trinity!! :)
#Post#: 290--------------------------------------------------
Re: Thoughts
By: Poppy Date: December 7, 2014, 12:00 pm
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Handel got it wrong then? And countless choirs over the decades
have sung about Hezekiah!!!
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