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#Post#: 2131--------------------------------------------------
Will words save you?
DIR By: Kerry
Date: May 30, 2015, 7:42 pm
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The following passages should not read superstitiously. Saying
the "right words" using our human tongues is not going to save
anyone.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord
Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of
God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
What do those mean?
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall
enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of
my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not
prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils?
and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart
from me, ye that work iniquity.
The confession must be done in sincerity and with a "new tongue"
-- a pure tongue free of guile and deceit and with clean lips.
There is no salvation in the mere repetition of words using
human language. Let's not confuse the "letter" and the
"spirit." Anyone can recite prayers, but it is nothing if he
doesn't mean it in his heart and doesn't speak with sincerity.
That is what I believe.
#Post#: 2134--------------------------------------------------
Re: Will words save you?
DIR By: bradley
Date: May 30, 2015, 8:39 pm
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I fully agree. People who think word wrangling correctly with
whatever religious affiliation they associate with will get them
good with God, they are only fooling themselves.
#Post#: 2136--------------------------------------------------
Re: Will words save you?
DIR By: Piper
Date: May 31, 2015, 2:14 am
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I never pray without sincerity. Quite honestly, one should not
speak without sincerity, nor write. Can a man lie to God,
deceive God, or can a man only deceive other men?
I believe Jesus taught us a prayer to recite that is commonly
known as 'The Lord's Prayer'. I wonder how often it is
'recited'. I wonder if it is recited in sincerity of heart.
What is 'word wrangling' with a religious affiliation? Example,
please?
#Post#: 2137--------------------------------------------------
Re: Will words save you?
DIR By: Kerry
Date: May 31, 2015, 5:43 am
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--- Quote from: Piper link ---
>
> I never pray without sincerity. Quite honestly, one should
not speak without sincerity, nor write. Can a man lie to God,
deceive God, or can a man only deceive other men?
--- End Quote ---
I'd say people cannot deceive God; but we read about people
lying to the Holy Spirit. If you think about that, it's
completely bonkers to think it's possible. If people weren't
insane spiritually before, I'd think they would be after.
--- Quote ---
> I believe Jesus taught us a prayer to recite that is commonly
known as 'The Lord's Prayer'. I wonder how often it is
'recited'. I wonder if it is recited in sincerity of heart.
--- End Quote ---
I know when I had to recite it as a child in school, it didn't
mean much to me. I'm opposed to having it in schools since I
think it trivializes what should held sacred, and especially in
public schools where the teachers would not be encouraging
children to think about what they're saying. What we need are
parents and clergy teaching children how to pray, not teachers
unless they're in religious schools.
You can take the Lord's Prayer and say it a few words at a time,
meditating on those words before going on to the next ones.
What does "Our Father" mean? By itself, what does that mean?
Then what does it mean "which art in heaven" mean? A great
many questions and sometimes some answers too can come if we
meditate on the words in that prayer. For example, why should
we pray for the kingdom to come? Won't it come anyway, so why
would Jesus want people to pray for that?
#Post#: 2140--------------------------------------------------
Re: Will words save you?
DIR By: Piper
Date: May 31, 2015, 9:56 am
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^ And so it goes with all guided prayer. One should not be
rushed through it. Time must be given to contemplate that which
is being recited. Only in that way does it become true prayer.
#Post#: 2141--------------------------------------------------
Re: Will words save you?
DIR By: Poppy
Date: May 31, 2015, 10:47 am
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I don't much like recited prayer, although I do say the Lord's
prayer but like Kerry said with meaning and thought. I prefer
conversation with God over recited prayers.
#Post#: 2142--------------------------------------------------
Re: Will words save you?
DIR By: Twinc
Date: May 31, 2015, 1:43 pm
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--- Quote from: Poppy link ---
>
> I don't much like recited prayer, although I do say the Lord's
prayer but like Kerry said with meaning and thought. I prefer
conversation with God over recited prayers.
>
--- End Quote ---
it always surprises me how pagans/heathens can and do get their
prayers, wishes etc fulfilled/answered just as quick and
sometimes quicker - is it true the devil answers just as quick -
twinc
#Post#: 2143--------------------------------------------------
Re: Will words save you?
DIR By: Piper
Date: May 31, 2015, 1:55 pm
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I prefer contemplating the life of Jesus and Mary, praying the
Mysteries and Scripture, because it guides me away from selfish
prayer and accidentally praying against God's will-- which is
very difficult for me to understand at this point in my life.
God does not seem to speak to us as other people speak to us, so
I don't understand "conversations" with God.
Praying the Rosary takes me outside of my self, focuses me on
the salvation story, yet still offers prayer and a plea of
intercession for the whole world, including my self. I'm
reminded I am only a small part of a much bigger plan. Best I
hold a Kingdom vision, reminding me that these bodies, this
world, is not our home. Best I seek to quiet myself, observe
nature, and trust that God is in control, even when so many
things seem out of my control.
Lately, I try to be content, even if not entirely happy, because
this is my temporary home. I try to be thankful I've been
provided a relatively safe, quiet, and peaceful place in this
world, with a warm bed to sleep in. I remind myself many do not
have these things.
Lately, words seem insufficient. All the words of all my
endless prayer over the past few years, and still, what is, is.
Words can not always change things, nor save us. Jesus is
Savior. I only hope to, somehow, be included in His eternal
Kingdom, and if the road there is not easy, still we must find
strength to finish. I pray to find strength, to recall that the
entire life of Christ tells us to "take heart. "
#Post#: 2145--------------------------------------------------
Re: Will words save you?
DIR By: Poppy
Date: May 31, 2015, 2:11 pm
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[quote=Piper]I don't understand conversations with God.[/quote]
I talk to him and then I listen for what he wants to say to me.
If I was talking to my earthly Father or anybody else I wouldn't
just recite a series of words however nice they might seem. I
would speak naturally but with respect. We only have to read
the prayers of Jesus to see he didn't just recite a set of
words. Reciting may be a good exercise and make us feel better
but it isn't intimate. Or at least I don't feel that it is. But
I'm going to get in bother if I say much more.
#Post#: 2146--------------------------------------------------
Re: Will words save you?
DIR By: Piper
Date: May 31, 2015, 2:50 pm
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I respect where God has you, Poppy, and I have never doubted
your sincerity.
There is no "bother". I was expressing my own experience, if
you only read once more. God guides us along the path that
helps us most, don't you think? Perhaps, I need more structure
than others here.
I pray the Rosary for the same reason you pray in tongues:
Sometimes our own words fail us. The same Spirit presides,
loves, and helps us.
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