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       #Post#: 2131--------------------------------------------------
       Will words save you? 
       By: Kerry Date: May 30, 2015, 7:42 pm
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       The following passages should not read superstitiously.  Saying
       the "right words"  using our human tongues  is not going to save
       anyone.
       Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord
       Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him
       from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
       1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of
       God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
       What do those mean?
       Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall
       enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of
       my Father which is in heaven.
       22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not
       prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils?
       and in thy name done many wonderful works?
       23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart
       from me, ye that work iniquity.
       The confession must be done in sincerity and with a "new tongue"
       -- a pure tongue free of guile and deceit and  with clean lips.
       There is no salvation in the mere repetition of words using
       human language.  Let's not confuse the "letter" and the
       "spirit."   Anyone can recite  prayers, but it is nothing if he
       doesn't mean it in his heart and doesn't  speak with sincerity.
       That is what I believe.
       #Post#: 2134--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Will words save you? 
       By: bradley Date: May 30, 2015, 8:39 pm
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       I fully agree.   People who think word wrangling correctly with
       whatever religious affiliation they associate with will get them
       good with God, they are only fooling themselves.
       #Post#: 2136--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Will words save you? 
       By: Piper Date: May 31, 2015, 2:14 am
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       [font=trebuchet ms]I never pray without sincerity.  Quite
       honestly, one should not speak without sincerity, nor write.
       Can a man lie to God, deceive God, or can a man only deceive
       other men?
       I believe Jesus taught us a prayer to recite that is commonly
       known as 'The Lord's Prayer'.  I wonder how often it is
       'recited'.  I wonder if it is recited in sincerity of heart.
       What is 'word wrangling' with a religious affiliation?  Example,
       please?[/font]
       #Post#: 2137--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Will words save you? 
       By: Kerry Date: May 31, 2015, 5:43 am
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       [quote author=Piper link=topic=250.msg2136#msg2136
       date=1433056487]
       I never pray without sincerity.  Quite honestly, one should not
       speak without sincerity, nor write.  Can a man lie to God,
       deceive God, or can a man only deceive other men?[/quote]I'd say
       people cannot deceive God; but we read about people lying to the
       Holy Spirit.   If you  think about that, it's completely bonkers
       to think it's possible.  If people  weren't insane spiritually
       before, I'd think they would be after.
       [quote]I believe Jesus taught us a prayer to recite that is
       commonly known as 'The Lord's Prayer'.  I wonder how often it is
       'recited'.  I wonder if it is recited in sincerity of heart.
       [/quote]I know when I had to recite it as a child in school, it
       didn't mean much to me.    I'm opposed to having it in  schools
       since I think it trivializes what should held  sacred, and
       especially in public schools where the teachers would not be
       encouraging children to think about what they're saying.   What
       we need are parents and clergy teaching children how to pray,
       not teachers unless they're in religious schools.
       You can take the Lord's Prayer and say it a few words at a time,
       meditating on those words before going on to the next ones.
       What does "Our Father" mean?   By itself, what does that mean?
       Then what does it mean "which art in heaven" mean?   A great
       many questions and sometimes some answers too can come if we
       meditate on the words in that prayer.   For example, why should
       we pray for the kingdom to come?  Won't it come anyway, so why
       would Jesus want people to pray for that?
       #Post#: 2140--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Will words save you? 
       By: Piper Date: May 31, 2015, 9:56 am
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       [font=trebuchet ms]^  And so it goes with all guided prayer.
       One should not be rushed through it.  Time must be given to
       contemplate that which is being recited.  Only in that way does
       it become true prayer. [/font]
       #Post#: 2141--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Will words save you? 
       By: Poppy Date: May 31, 2015, 10:47 am
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       I don't much like recited prayer, although I do say the Lord's
       prayer but like Kerry said with meaning and thought.  I prefer
       conversation with God over recited prayers.
       #Post#: 2142--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Will words save you? 
       By: Twinc Date: May 31, 2015, 1:43 pm
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       [quote author=Poppy link=topic=250.msg2141#msg2141
       date=1433087256]
       I don't much like recited prayer, although I do say the Lord's
       prayer but like Kerry said with meaning and thought.  I prefer
       conversation with God over recited prayers.
       [/quote]
       it always surprises me how pagans/heathens can and do get their
       prayers, wishes etc fulfilled/answered just as quick and
       sometimes quicker - is it true the devil answers just as quick -
       twinc
       #Post#: 2143--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Will words save you? 
       By: Piper Date: May 31, 2015, 1:55 pm
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       [font=trebuchet ms]I prefer contemplating the life of Jesus and
       Mary, praying the Mysteries and Scripture, because it guides me
       away from selfish prayer and accidentally praying against God's
       will-- which is very difficult for me to understand at this
       point in my life.
       God does not seem to speak to us as other people speak to us, so
       I don't understand "conversations" with God.
       Praying the Rosary takes me outside of my self, focuses me on
       the salvation story, yet still offers prayer and a plea of
       intercession for the whole world, including my self.  I'm
       reminded I am only a small part of a much bigger plan.  Best I
       hold a Kingdom vision, reminding me that these bodies, this
       world, is not our home.  Best I seek to quiet myself, observe
       nature, and trust that God is in control, even when so many
       things seem out of my control.
       Lately, I try to be content, even if not entirely happy, because
       this is my temporary home.  I try to be thankful I've been
       provided a relatively safe, quiet, and peaceful place in this
       world, with a warm bed to sleep in.  I remind myself many do not
       have these things.
       Lately, words seem insufficient.  All the words of all my
       endless prayer over the past few years, and still, what is, is.
       Words can not always change things, nor save us.  Jesus is
       Savior.  I only hope to, somehow, be included in His eternal
       Kingdom, and if the road there is not easy, still we must find
       strength to finish.  I pray to find strength, to recall that the
       entire life of Christ tells us to "take heart. "[/font]
       #Post#: 2145--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Will words save you? 
       By: Poppy Date: May 31, 2015, 2:11 pm
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       [quote=Piper]I don't understand conversations with God.[/quote]
       I talk to him and then I listen for what he wants to say to me.
       If I was talking to my earthly Father or anybody else I wouldn't
       just recite a series of words however nice they might seem.  I
       would speak naturally but with respect.  We only have to read
       the prayers of Jesus to see he didn't just recite a set of
       words.  Reciting may be a good exercise and make us feel better
       but it isn't intimate.  Or at least I don't feel that it is. But
       I'm going to get in bother if I say much more.
       #Post#: 2146--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Will words save you? 
       By: Piper Date: May 31, 2015, 2:50 pm
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       [font=trebuchet ms]I respect where God has you, Poppy, and I
       have never doubted your sincerity.
       There is no "bother".  I was expressing my own experience, if
       you only read once more.  God guides us along the path that
       helps us most, don't you think?  Perhaps, I need more structure
       than others here.
       I pray the Rosary for the same reason you pray in tongues:
       Sometimes our own words fail us.  The same Spirit presides,
       loves, and helps us.
       [/font]
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