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#Post#: 2094--------------------------------------------------
Re: Concerning Miracles
By: Piper Date: May 27, 2015, 5:29 pm
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[font=trebuchet ms]Portugal, NOT Potugal!
Can never, never proofread enuf. 8) And mean old Gaffer only
gives us 15 minutes to edit. Very hard on those with Obessive,
Compulsive, Editing Disease. :P[/font]
#Post#: 2096--------------------------------------------------
Re: Concerning Miracles
By: Kerry Date: May 27, 2015, 8:46 pm
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[quote author=Piper link=topic=242.msg2086#msg2086
date=1432746634]
What I meant, Kerry, is that the rain and the puddles occured
BEFORE the miracle of the sun; the day was wet and cloudy in
Potugal, and in that cloudy sky the people saw what they saw.
Yes, I agree the dancing of the sun was a spiritual
manifestation, but I'm not sure about the rain. I mean, there
were actual puddles of long-standing rain water that
disappeared. Perhaps those not seeing the sun phenomena were
nontheless 'dried' and saw the puddles disappear?
Dunno. Of course, we read varying accounts.[/quote]I think the
rain was a spiritual rain.
Psalm 72:5 They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon
endure, throughout all generations.
6 He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers
that water the earth.
7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of
peace so long as the moon endureth.
Have you ever felt as if "blessings" were falling on you like
rain? It is said too that manna rained down for Israel.
This "rain" comes from spiritual clouds -- from the Second
Heaven of Air. We all know about the "beast" that comes up out
of the earth and the one from the water. But some things --
more benevolent things -- also appear out of the air. Thus it
said that Jesus will come in clouds.
Even the Apostles did not see things right at times. It seems
as if they thought they saw Jesus going away in physical clouds.
The angels were almost scoffing -- "What are you staring at?"
Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye
gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from
you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen
him go into heaven.
Note there are two "witnesses" at this departure. Jesus left
being in the middle. The appearances and disappearances of the
Divine are often accomplished that way -- shown by how the High
Priest made a "cloud" by burning incense between the two
cherubim on the Ark. How many cherubim guard the path to the
Tree of Life? Two of course.
God also manifested in the Pillar -- was that a physical cloud?
Perhaps it did contain physical water vapor for all I know;
and in one way, it doesn't matter. What matters more was the
spiritual manifestation. That was seen differently at night
than during the day. At night, they could see "fire" had
manifested in the "cloud of water" -- the Third Heaven of Fire
was coming down and manifested in the Mental Plane of Air.
Oddly, it gave light to Israel at night but was extreme darkness
to the Egyptians.
Jacob's Pillar was also Heaven making a connection with the
earth. He saw angels in that Pillar but we are not told Israel
saw angels in theirs.
Paul seems to have had a vision of Peter, James and John since
he said they "seem" to be pillars -- meaning they "appeared" as
pillars. That is literally true too but not in a physical way.
James' pillar however was temporary in nature since he was the
Apostle for the Jews; and Paul as Apostle for the Gentiles
replaced him in Rome. The other two, Peter and John, have
their basilicas there. Rome is established not on one pillar
but three; and of them all, that of John is the most important.
Indeed that's the Pope's real Chair -- where he becomes Bishop
of Rome. That church devoted to John is more important
spiritually -- the most important church in the whole world in a
way; but the seat of Peter is more important physically. Have
I confused matters?
The three made that connection at the Transfiguration when the
"bright "cloud" "overshadowed" them. (Yes, it's something
similar to the Conception of Jesus when the Spirit
"overshadowed" Mother Mary.) The mantle of Moses fell on
James, that of Jesus fell on Peter, and that of Elijah fell on
John who was the only Apostle to have Mary as Mother and to be
caught up into Heaven and born from above. Were the four of
them on a physical mountain? Perhaps, most probably -- but more
importantly, they had gone up on God's mountain.
I don't think it rained physically at Fatima that day but I
think many experienced it that way. I see spiritual rain as
more of a miracle -- and I believe it did rain that day
spiritually. To quote Shakespeare a bit,
The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest:
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.
I also believe the Holy City over Fatima was anchored securely
to the earth that day -- with Heaven meeting the earth.
People gazed that day -- just as the seventy given a vision at
Sinai gazed and just as the Apostles had gazed. In that frame
of mind, one can become confused if the mind starts spinning
try to apply logic to it.
[quote]"Stars" in Scripture often represent angels. But, I take
it you're not referring to an angel when you say we each have a
star? [/quote]Depends on what is meant by "angel." A star is
the "real" person -- an eternal manifestation of God since
each star (if not a dark star) shines with the Divine Light it
has received.
If we think of that as a messenger from God, we could say it's
an angel. What John calls angels and stars is -- sorry to be so
confusing -- something else. It is life on earth that is not
already a star becoming a star. Jesus has "seven stars" in his
hand -- but they're also in his body. We all have the
potential to have seven stars come into existence in our bodies
-- and already do have them in undeveloped form. Thus Peter
talks about the "day star" that will arise in the heart and
Malachi talks about the "Sun of Righteousness" that will rise.
A star that has a physical body on this earth manifests at seven
levels. If you obtain a virtue, it's eternal. It is taken up
into Heaven and stored there forever. This is the treasure
stored up in Heaven. It's happening now to people. The
wonderful thing about this is that the star can make as many
copies of this as it wants -- so it sends that virtue back to
the person to use while he's still living on the earth. People
are sometimes are born into bodies without knowing they have
those treasures in Heaven -- Heaven may withhold them from us if
we would misuse them. If we get on track spiritually, it
seems as if some "gifts" can appear at random. But it's not
random -- no, those treasures were in Heaven and can be brought
forth time and again as needed.
What is sad is that some people have had gifts and abilities
turned off for good reasons and when they get back on track, the
gifts and abilities get turned back on. If they fall into
error again over it, the star will not interfere. The star
will break its connection to the person and leave. If the
person abuses the gifts, too bad.
Those seven levels of existence take on seven layers of being in
the star -- rather like layers in a pearl. As incredible as it
sounds, the seven layers correspond to the colors of the
rainbow. Thus each star can take on its own color and degree
of glory.
It is required -- essential -- that a person living as a human
obtain at least one perfection for the "soul" to rejoin the star
as part of it for eternity. He can't achieve stability until he
does. Jesus obtained perfection on all seven levels.
Shall I tell you the process about how Spirit and Soul merge?
When the "soul" below grows -- and it's exactly like a grape on
the Vine --- that too is more literal than many may suppose --
it matures and is ready as the feminine counterpart below (yes,
St. Catharine of Sienna was right, the soul can be thought of as
feminine), the star above approaches -- and begins to
"overshadow" it. At first, they just touch, then a little of
them intersect. Finally they both occupy the exact space --
and the two become one.
I feel like stomping my feet when I hear people thinking Mary
arrived at Fatima in a UFO. Yes, there was a globe of light.
Certainly, but it was not a UFO. I believe someone said a
"man" or angel got out of a globe of light? If so, I'd think it
was an angel sent by Mary.
"Balls of light" can be almost anything however. On one hand,
they are angelic expressions of God when the righteous shine
like stars. (The size of the star can be made to vary too.) On
the other hand, some entities from the mental plane seem to
take this shape -- and they're pleasant light colors. The ugly
balls are nasty colors -- if not black, then often an ugly green
or dark red or russet color going almost into brown, and so on.
You can tell what they are by their color and by the emotional
"vibe" they put out.
#Post#: 2097--------------------------------------------------
Re: Concerning Miracles
By: Kerry Date: May 27, 2015, 9:52 pm
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[quote author=Piper link=topic=242.msg2087#msg2087
date=1432747873]
Physical bodies ARE a drag! But, still awesome and amazing, and
they have their place in the physical realm. I sometimes feel
sad for my poor mortal body. When I'm sick, I rub my tummy.
Very soothing and thera-peutic to the body. Try it. Must be
why dogs adore a good belly rub. :)[/quote]
I'd say you're stimulating the chakra there and bringing up
energy from the base of the spine to it.
Men sometimes rub their stomachs when they want to charm women.
Ever notice that? Again they're bringing up energy from the
base of the spine. If they really know how to do it, they can
put a "charge" in the air.
I saw a minister doing it once too during a sermon. He appeared
to have the audience quite charmed; but I think he sensed the
charm weakening at times and that is when he reached down to rub
his tummy. I saw that on TV. Maybe if I had been there in
person, I'd have a better idea.
[quote]I think when I die I will look upon my body and thank it
for serving me all these years. I wish I would be more faithful
to serve it better than I sometimes do. You know, proper food,
exercise, rest, meditation to ease stress. [/quote]You can thank
it now to. Few people ever think about how faithful their
physical hearts have been.
Flesh can't be saved as flesh -- but I believe there is
something in flesh that can be.
[quote]Please explain "elementals." Sounds like Wiccan
teachings?[/quote]Could be since Wiccan beliefs vary widely.
The term "elemental spirit" is sometimes used too, but that's
misleading. They aren't permanent the way spirits are. They
are non-physical forces of nature that are working away at
things, shaping things -- and when things finally do achieve
their final perfected forms, then the elementals can also be
said to be immortal.
In Jewish thought, everything has its angel -- and that gives a
wrong impression if you think of angels as permanent spiritual
beings. Even an atom has its angel. It's through these
"angels" or "elementals" that God sustains the universe. Man
was given charge of the earth and should be managing things to
establish harmony -- and all the elementals would have obeyed
man too and created harmony if that's how man had been. Man
should be able to have a picture in his mind of how he wants
things to be, and then the elementals would make it be that way.
Man confuses the elementals when we conflict with each other --
and when curses come from us rather than blessings. People
read Genesis at times thinking God cursed the earth. Does it
really say that? Or was God informing Adam of what he and Eve
had done? Did God curse the serpent, or was God telling the
serpent it had cursed itself? Did God curse Cain, or did Cain
curse himself?
I read it that God gave man dominion over the earth and all the
elementals would obey him, including the elemental spirit of
each species of animal. I believe man cursed and the
elementals obeyed him. God did not punish Adam. We humans are
apt to look at that as if we're being punished; but maybe that's
because we haven't yet owned up to our part in things? Why
blame God if curses are still coming from us -- is that not yet
another curse, a railing accusation against God perhaps?
We must let God tame our tongues. The instinct to bless a tree
and appreciate it and love it -- that is what is needed in this
world. To me, this is God at work taming "what comes out of a
man" -- which is what defiles him. Sometimes it's verbal words
out loud, but sometimes it's bursts of negative emotions
directed outwards at people, animals, plants and things.
When I was reading Roberson's book about praying, he said he got
bored and was cursing the roaches in his closet one day. I am
frightened for him and what may happen to him later if he
doesn't repent and ask them to forgive him. How dare he?
Whose fault was it if he had roaches in his house? The roaches?
I think not. I'd say he left out food and they came to eat --
if he didn't want them there, he could have cleaned up the house
instead of cursing them. So there he is, trying to be so
spiritual and without taking care of the physical. Then he
wants God to take care of his roach problem for him? To me,
this kind of thing is delusional and out of reality to me. It
was both lazy and irresponsible --and he wanted God to kill the
roaches because of his laziness and irresponsible attitude?
His curses were an invitation to rain down destruction on
himself. I pray he repented of it or will if he hasn't
already. It may seem like a small thing to some; but
James' words ring in my ears about blessings and curses -- it
should not be.
#Post#: 2101--------------------------------------------------
Re: Concerning Miracles
By: A nonny mouse Date: May 28, 2015, 1:47 am
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^^^^Weird.....utterly weird.
Deism, deriving from the Latin word deus meaning "God", combines
the rejection of revelation and authority as a source of
religious knowledge with the conclusion that reason and
observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the
existence of a single creator of the universe.
Deism holds that God does not intervene with the functioning of
the natural world but rather allows it to function according to
the laws of nature.
Deism gained prominence among intellectuals during the Age of
Enlightenment who, raised as Christians, believed in one God but
became disenchanted with organized religion and notions such as
the Trinity, a virgin birth, biblical inerrancy, healing by
prayer, and the supernatural interpretation of events as being
miracles.
#Post#: 2107--------------------------------------------------
Re: Concerning Miracles
By: Kerry Date: May 28, 2015, 8:48 am
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[quote author=A Trusting Deist link=topic=242.msg2101#msg2101
date=1432795668]
^^^^Weird.....utterly weird.
Deism, deriving from the Latin word deus meaning "God", combines
the rejection of revelation and authority as a source of
religious knowledge with the conclusion that reason and
observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the
existence of a single creator of the universe.
Deism holds that God does not intervene with the functioning of
the natural world but rather allows it to function according to
the laws of nature.
Deism gained prominence among intellectuals during the Age of
Enlightenment who, raised as Christians, believed in one God but
became disenchanted with organized religion and notions such as
the Trinity, a virgin birth, biblical inerrancy, healing by
prayer, and the supernatural interpretation of events as being
miracles.
[/quote]"It's déjà vu all over again".
#Post#: 2112--------------------------------------------------
Re: Concerning Miracles
By: Piper Date: May 28, 2015, 1:08 pm
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[font=trebuchet ms]Thanks again, Kerry. Found the stuff on
elementals esp. interesting.
And, it seems right that man brings curses on himself; best to
not accuse God. Will think more on confusing the elementals, on
blessing and cursing.[/font]
#Post#: 2114--------------------------------------------------
Re: Concerning Miracles
By: Kerry Date: May 28, 2015, 5:25 pm
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[quote author=Piper link=topic=242.msg2112#msg2112
date=1432836534]
[font=trebuchet ms]Thanks again, Kerry. Found the stuff on
elementals esp. interesting.
And, it seems right that man brings curses on himself; best to
not accuse God. Will think more on confusing the elementals, on
blessing and cursing.[/font]
[/quote]You may be thinking about the time the hail fell but not
where you didn't want it to fall? I'd say the elementals were
doing their job well that day when they knew was wanted. I
think they love to know what people want. They want to please
people and interact with them that way.
Did God do it? I'd say yes. I think He did it by having the
elementals do what you wanted. It's not God by Himself, it's
not you by yourself, it's not the elementals by themselves --
it's everything working together when things are connected the
way they should be. Odds of having that happen with lots of
people around -- much lower. If they were all people with kind
hearts, much better.
When Jesus spoke to the wind, only his disciples were around.
Question though: Who raised that storm? Was it people who
hated seeing Jesus perform miracles before they got on the ship?
Was there an uncomfortable "air" about the "large multitudes"
that were swarming about? Or was it the demons across the sea
or lake who found out Jesus was casting out devils on the other
side and they didn't want him coming over to their side -- or
maybe were just angry. My guess is the problems came from the
east. I think weather and other spiritual energies tend to
move from east to west, and the town of Gadara is roughly to
the east of the Sea of Galilee -- more to southeast though.
Why from east to west? I think it has something to do with how
people sleep and wake up. People to your east will generally be
going to sleep before you and also waking up. I became acutely
aware of something one day as I was driving from west to east
entering the town I live in just as the sun was coming up. The
whole mood was changing, and it was more than me experiencing
sunrise where I was. I could feel how it was different in the
west than it was in the east.
If you ever stay up at night because it's calmer then, try to
sense what direction the first energy comes from in the morning
when people start waking up. This idea of east-to-west is
found several places in the Bible too. Genesis can be read
that the Voice of God moved in the cool of the day -- but it can
also be read to say it was moving towards the west.
The "globe" at Fatima is said to have
[url=
HTML https://books.google.com/books?id=tx-BEpkJBq8C&pg=PT72&lpg=PT72&dq=fatima+"east+to+west"&source=bl&ots=FnNZXGn0ot&sig=Ec6HpgWX2pEpBrYqp9AlIHqeF9g&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9JBnVfTXLomAygSnh4PAAw&ved=0CDkQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=fatima%20%22east%20to%20west%22&f=false]moved<br
/>from east to west[/url].
I'd expect that too although it would be very easy for such a
globe to move anyway it wanted. But I'd also guess it wasn't
exactly east to west. I'd guess if you could pinpoint the
precise direction and extended it out in a straight line, it
would go through Rome. I haven't seen that now; but I'd
guess that.
#Post#: 2125--------------------------------------------------
Re: Concerning Miracles
By: Kerry Date: May 29, 2015, 8:04 pm
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A bit more about elementals and elemental forces.
Ever wonder how "dead" dirt can become alive? We humans can be
traced back to dirt which can be traced back to rocks that got
broken up. There is a principle that converts "dead" matter
into vegetative life and then into animated life we call animals
and finally "something" gets added to that animal to make us a
human.
Today few philosophers talk about the vegetative part of the
human soul; but St. Thomas Aquinas knew of it.
Notice that it's this "vegetative" elemental force that is
affected or cursed in Genesis. The same curse that made thorns
and thistles also made man's body mortal, susceptible to death.
The curse on the woman also says life will be brought forth in
suffering. That includes more than the obvious things like
childbirth. It also refers to the difficulty of having "man"
made in the correct image and likeness of God.
The corrupted and cursed elemental force within matter itself
can be said to be the energy that black magicians seek to summon
-- the beast that rises out of the earth. Yes, it's related to
the beast that rises up out of the water or astral plane too;
but it's easier for magicians to manipulate the fluid soul
energy of the astral plane than to manipulate the more difficult
atoms of matter.
Note it. And note too that God can manifest in anything and
change it. This is the reason the Angel of the LORD appeared to
Moses in a thorn bush. We could even say that manifestation is
a prophecy about Jesus who took the crown of cursed thorns given
to him by fallen men and changed it into the Crown of Life.
Matter itself contains spiritual energy in a wrong form -- and
that form hates life. It is correct to say there is a
spiritual force called "death." When it is said Jesus defeated
death, it was a real force that he gained control over. He did
this by following the Path of Love always. The darkness was
overcome by the Light, and the misqualified energy in the atoms
of his body was changed. This, by the way, also happens daily
to Christians but they seldom notice the change. It will be
visibly apparent in the Resurrection.
While it's true Jesus understands this energy and defeated it,
he cannot defeat it within us if we are holding onto it and
wanting it to stay around. Hence the need to stop cursing our
world by word and deed. If cursing comes out of us, we are
cursing ourselves as well as our own bodies and souls -- and
what can Jesus do about that if that is our choice? We don't
need to understand how it all works. If we follow Jesus on the
Path of Love, he can take care of how it works and make sure
things wind up right in the end; but we cannot keep choosing to
sin by venting anger and other negative emotions and thoughts
into the word. Such things defile us and as James put it, the
tongue can set the whole body on fire. So it can.
The world already has enough curses in it. The elemental spirits
are burdened by the continuing curses and sins of men. It is
literally true that all creation groans. It groaned a lot more
before Jesus came, but he removed much suffering from the
elementals. The Christian can help ease the suffering of the
elementals and bring them back where they ought to be by
blessing things. Just ask God to bless things. Trees, people,
animals, anything. You may doubt this is doing much "out
there" in the world; but I promise you it is impossible to
bless the world without being blessed yourself. James' advice
in his Epistle is something we can apply, not just say, "It's
true because it's in the Bible." It can be made true in our
lives too.
I still sometimes start to fume if a light turns red; but now I
often take the opportunity to bless the other drivers as they go
by. God is giving me a chance to bless them. So what if I
wait a little?
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