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#Post#: 2069--------------------------------------------------
Re: Concerning Miracles
By: Piper Date: May 26, 2015, 11:37 pm
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[font=trebuchet ms]Kerry, to my understanding the rain was an
undeniable and physical fact--some sources refer to the
"incessant" rain that fell prior to the phenomena of what is
often referred to as the "dancing of the sun." Critics have,
of course, claimed the sun-phenomena to be caused by retinol
effects produced by staring into the light too long, yet there
remains no explanation for the suddenly dry clothing and ground.
Engineers studying the case actually stated that an incredible
amount of energy would have been needed to dry the large pools
of water that had formed in the field (from the incessant rain)
within only the ten minutes of the event.
Some 70,000 people had gathered awaiting the miracle Mary
promised "so that all may believe". People claim the sun could
be looked upon with no pain to the eyes.
The three children who over the course of the apparitions were
given the "Three Secrets of Fatima" said they saw a panorama of
visions during the event. The dancing of the sun is said to
have been seen by "most" of the crowd, as well as some people
miles away. One account was of a man who witnessed the sun
phenomena from his veranda, although he had forgotten the date
predicted for the miracle to occur by the children.
Here is one witness account:
[/font]
[quote][font=times new roman]"As if like a bolt from the blue,
the clouds were wrenched apart, and the sun at its zenith
appeared in all its splendor. It began to revolve vertiginously
on its axis, like the most magnificent firewheel that could be
imagined, taking on all the colors of the rainbow and sending
forth multicolored flashes of light, producing the most
astounding effect. This sublime and incomparable spectacle,
which was repeated three distinct times, lasted for about ten
minutes. The immense multitude, overcome by the evidence of such
a tremendous prodigy, threw themselves on their knees." ―
Dr. Manuel Formigão, a professor at the seminary at Santarém,
and a priest. He had attended the September visitation, and
examined and questioned the children in detail several
times.[/font][/quote]
#Post#: 2070--------------------------------------------------
Re: Concerning Miracles
By: Piper Date: May 27, 2015, 12:11 am
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[font=trebuchet ms]I wish my cat would've been in the room when
I saw the black shadowy thing that crept toward me like a spider
moves, in starts and stops. It was about the size of a
volleyball, and disappeared when I switched on the brighter
lamp. I wonder if my cat would have seen it.
Remember my lucid dream where I was outdoors at night and I
floated up to the second story window and my cat was there, on
the outside ledge, tail waving, not acting at all surprised to
see me? LOL. What is it with cats?
I remember how pretty the light was from the yard lamp down
below, shining up onto the underside of the canopy of leaves.
Magical. I touched the leaves and -- sounds very silly-- but I
felt such love for them. I am a tree-hugger, though, and there
was my tree, with me in my dream. Or perhaps I'd gone out to be
with it. Sometimes now I stand beneath that tree and stretch out
my arm, wishing I could float up there again, but . . . only in
my dreams. For now.[/font]
#Post#: 2071--------------------------------------------------
Re: Concerning Miracles
By: Piper Date: May 27, 2015, 12:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[font=trebuchet ms]You said you talked to the wind and it
answered you? How did it answer? For that matter, what did you
ask it?
I love those little dust devils that stir up on a perfectly calm
day with no wind. What is that all about? I love to dash over
and leap into the middle them. ;D
When he was little, I told my grandson about Jesus calming the
storm, and next windy day he was out in his backyard yelling,
"Jesus! Stop the wind!" My daughter was embarrased the
neighbors might hear him. Ha!
Early, early yesterday morning, while it was still dark, before
dawn, I knelt at my open window which looks out over these
massive bushes, right into the maple trees, and everything was
gently lit by the yard lamps, horses still lazy across the way,
and all the robins and other birds were singing in the dark. No
wind, just absolute peace. And hundreds of birds. In the dark!
Would be a travesty to sleep through it. Moment outside of
time. I wanted to be a bird and join in! :)[/font]
#Post#: 2072--------------------------------------------------
Re: Concerning Miracles
By: A nonny mouse Date: May 27, 2015, 12:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm not quite sure why I'm writing other than to fill in time
whilst waiting for Christine to wake up and for another
uneventful day to begin.
My thoughts are constantly absorbed by wondering about the
spiritual realm and I am aware that doing so is gradually
leading me further and further into uncertainty.
On Sunday the newish local Methodist minister organised an
interdenominational 'Pentecost Party' in the form of a 'songs of
Praise' service with free 'nosh', and held in their town centre
memorial gardens.
It was the first time that I had experienced her leadership and
I was drawn to her 'social' enthusiasm but smiled wryly at her
'hyping up' of the spiritual side of things with constant 'amen,
praise the Lord, and alleluia' interspersions.
She's not a 'tongues' supporter but I was struck by the
similarity to 'tongues' leaders who likewise 'hype' repetitively
until they get their congregation to break into tongues.
And then by contrast the local Vicar contributed the
standardised CoE rhetoric and I thought "where on earth do I
stand in all this?"
And then I read Nancy’s words:-
[quote author=Piper link=topic=242.msg2057#msg2057
date=1432631106]
[size=12pt]Mike, narrow it down to love God, love your neighbor,
God's law written on your heart, and Jesus as the promised
Messiah and Savior. The rest is all ideas and details.
[/quote]
That sounded good until I thought further on Nancy’s earlier
words:-
“Quote Piper: What mere man, instead of an earthly father, has
God as His Father; what mere man is borne of a Virgin?!”
And that set me thinking about the fact that many other ancient
religions also proclaim the ‘virgin’ birth of their central
‘divinity’.
So now here I am stepping yet further back from my once held
faith, and wondering if there might not be an infinite variety
of temporary ‘faiths’ that enable man to get as close as he can
to God until God finally ushers in a new age of reunion between
himself and his creation.
Go back to sleep, Mike……or better still go and make Christine
her ‘wake up’ mug of coffee so that the day’s uneventfulness can
begin and I can stop “wondering about the spiritual realm”.
#Post#: 2073--------------------------------------------------
Re: Concerning Miracles
By: Piper Date: May 27, 2015, 1:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[font=trebuchet ms]Mike, hon,
How's come you can paint the magic, but you have such trouble
believin' it? :-*
You believe I exist, though all I am is words on paper. Sort
of. ;)
[/font]
#Post#: 2075--------------------------------------------------
Re: Concerning Miracles
By: A nonny mouse Date: May 27, 2015, 1:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Piper link=topic=242.msg2073#msg2073
date=1432708107]
[font=trebuchet ms]Mike, hon,
How's come you can paint the magic, but you have such trouble
believin' it? :-*
You believe I exist, though all I am is words on paper. Sort
of. ;)
[/font]
[/quote]
It's only a case of the 'magic' changing and becoming more
universally applicable.
It's still magic (at least to the degree that it ever was).
#Post#: 2076--------------------------------------------------
Re: Concerning Miracles
By: Kerry Date: May 27, 2015, 5:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Piper link=topic=242.msg2069#msg2069
date=1432701453]
Kerry, to my understanding the rain was an undeniable and
physical fact--some sources refer to the "incessant" rain that
fell prior to the phenomena of what is often referred to as the
"dancing of the sun."[/quote]
I'd say people were convinced it was a physical fact; but if it
was, how can we explain why some people didn't see it?
[quote]
Critics have, of course, claimed the sun-phenomena to be
caused by retinol effects produced by staring into the light too
long, yet there remains no explanation for the suddenly dry
clothing and ground. Engineers studying the case actually
stated that an incredible amount of energy would have been
needed to dry the large pools of water that had formed in the
field (from the incessant rain) within only the ten minutes of
the event.
Some 70,000 people had gathered awaiting the miracle Mary
promised "so that all may believe". People claim the sun could
be looked upon with no pain to the eyes.
The three children who over the course of the apparitions were
given the "Three Secrets of Fatima" said they saw a panorama of
visions during the event. The dancing of the sun is said to
have been seen by "most" of the crowd, as well as some people
miles away. One account was of a man who witnessed the sun
phenomena from his veranda, although he had forgotten the date
predicted for the miracle to occur by the children.[/quote]
The sun poses a bigger problem. If the physical sun danced, why
didn't everyone in that part of the world where it was daytime
see it?
[quote]Here is one witness account:
[quote]"As if like a bolt from the blue, the clouds were
wrenched apart, and the sun at its zenith appeared in all its
splendor. It began to revolve vertiginously on its axis, like
the most magnificent firewheel that could be imagined, taking on
all the colors of the rainbow and sending forth multicolored
flashes of light, producing the most astounding effect. This
sublime and incomparable spectacle, which was repeated three
distinct times, lasted for about ten minutes. The immense
multitude, overcome by the evidence of such a tremendous
prodigy, threw themselves on their knees." ― Dr. Manuel
Formigão, a professor at the seminary at Santarém, and a priest.
He had attended the September visitation, and examined and
questioned the children in detail several times.[/quote][/quote]
I have seen a star like that -- the only difference being that
the star I saw was putting off sparks that were blue and white
that created what looked like streaks of light.
The Magi also saw a spiritual star. That couldn't have been a
star in the physical sky since Herod couldn't see it. The way
it moved also tells us it wasn't a physical star. I'd say that
was a manifestation of Jesus himself -- the Star that was
prophesied to rise out of Jacob. Almost everyone loses their
connection to their star -- each person is a star -- but the
connection gets broken. Jesus' was not broken until the
Crucifixion when the "sun went dark".
The star can be huge. The part that gets "born" on the earth is
tiny like a grain of sand. It can also "die" in a certain way
like a seed dying. A star can send out new sparks that act as
seeds. I'd say that was what Mary was doing then -- sowing the
seeds of immortality.
Had a Pope consecrated Mother Russia to her, I believe she would
have empowered to sow the seeds of immortality there too.
Something is still seriously wrong spiritually with Russia.
#Post#: 2077--------------------------------------------------
Re: Concerning Miracles
By: Kerry Date: May 27, 2015, 6:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Piper link=topic=242.msg2070#msg2070
date=1432703490]
I wish my cat would've been in the room when I saw the black
shadowy thing that crept toward me like a spider moves, in
starts and stops. It was about the size of a volleyball, and
disappeared when I switched on the brighter lamp. I wonder if
my cat would have seen it.[/quote]It would have been
interesting. Then too, perhaps the thing wouldn't have come
around if the cat was around.
I told Milhaus at the time that if he saw something like that
again, he could "eat it." He looked up into the air and acted
like he was catching something. I said, "It's not there now,
but yes you can catch it and eat it if you see it again." He
could have too -- and it wouldn't have hurt him.
[quote]Remember my lucid dream where I was outdoors at night and
I floated up to the second story window and my cat was there, on
the outside ledge, tail waving, not acting at all surprised to
see me? LOL. What is it with cats? [/quote]Cats are more used
to such things although the cats I have now seldom seem to see
anything. Maybe that's a good thing?
[quote]I remember how pretty the light was from the yard lamp
down below, shining up onto the underside of the canopy of
leaves. Magical. I touched the leaves and -- sounds very
silly-- but I felt such love for them. I am a tree-hugger,
though, and there was my tree, with me in my dream. Or perhaps
I'd gone out to be with it. Sometimes now I stand beneath that
tree and stretch out my arm, wishing I could float up there
again, but . . . only in my dreams. For now.[/quote]Physical
bodies are a drag if you ask me. [quote author=Piper
link=topic=242.msg2071#msg2071 date=1432705124]
You said you talked to the wind and it answered you? How did it
answer? For that matter, what did you ask it? [/quote]I felt a
strange breeze coming into my car and thought I sensed
something. I wasn't driving but getting ready to take off. I
asked if there was anyone there who wanted to talk to me. My
answer was a small puff of windi in the middle of my face.
That was all there was to that but then I drove along a bit and
suddenly saw a magnificent double rainbow. And a pregnant woman
I'd never seen before. We got into a very pleasant conversation
-- almost as if we had known each other for ages.
The wind got my attention and got my mind in the right frame of
mind. What I discovered was that her child would be a holy
child -- no, I didn't tell her that. I was to pray for her
child's protection. I never met her again and I know nothing
about the child.
I also experimented for a while with hurricanes; and once was
out of the body. I met an afflicted elemental -- angry because
of all the angry energy it had met up with in Africa. It was
on its way of becoming a hurricane. We chatted and I told it
to go to Lake Louise in Canada. It did. Later I tried to find
it but couldn't. It must have moved on.
I started experimenting with hurricanes when I saw New Orleans
being hit by one. I had a friend living there and asked him to
move because I said I saw the town being hit by a hurricane. He
said he wasn't moving that year but would be the next. What
could I do then? I prayed -- I watched the photos of the
weather over the Atlantic, and if a storm started to take shape,
I'd pray about it. I think maybe I messed up some scientific
models -- I read later when a scientist said it was a waste of
time trying to predict how many hurricanes there would be.
The next year I didn't pray and New Orleans got hit.
The problems begin over Africa. Dark thoughts like a cloud of
locusts drift west -- yes, what I saw looked like bugs. All
the angry nasty thoughts cross Africa and then start creating
whirlwinds in the Atlantic. To make matters worse, the voodoo
people in Haiti and New Orleans were adding to the negative
energy.
[quote]I love those little dust devils that stir up on a
perfectly calm day with no wind. What is that all about? I
love to dash over and leap into the middle them. ;D[/quote]Some
friendly elemental having some fun and maybe trying to get your
attention. Try saying hi.
[quote]When he was little, I told my grandson about Jesus
calming the storm, and next windy day he was out in his backyard
yelling, "Jesus! Stop the wind!" My daughter was embarrased
the neighbors might hear him. Ha!
Early, early yesterday morning, while it was still dark, before
dawn, I knelt at my open window which looks out over these
massive bushes, right into the maple trees, and everything was
gently lit by the yard lamps, horses still lazy across the way,
and all the robins and other birds were singing in the dark. No
wind, just absolute peace. And hundreds of birds. In the dark!
Would be a travesty to sleep through it. Moment outside of
time. I wanted to be a bird and join in! :)[/quote]I think you
can be a bird in Paradise if you want. I don't think Adam and
Eve became "human beings" until after the fall when God put them
into garments of skin. I think they could experience all life.
It's not clear to me how "human" any of them were until "Enos"
-- and his name means "human" in the physical manner while Adam
means "man" in the spiritual sense.
When I read that Jesus said the rocks would cry out if men
didn't praise, I thought to myself, I wouldn't mind being a rock
if Jesus walked by. I think I could sing. I think the rocks
were already singing when he said that.
Oh I saw some corn stalks one day moving in a breeze. If it was
a steady breeze, you'd think they'd all be moving together,
right? They weren't. Some would move, then others. My
telepathy was working that day. I could feel they were happy --
and the wind was having fun too. The wind and the corn were
having fun.
#Post#: 2086--------------------------------------------------
Re: Concerning Miracles
By: Piper Date: May 27, 2015, 12:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[font=trebuchet ms]What I meant, Kerry, is that the rain and the
puddles occured BEFORE the miracle of the sun; the day was wet
and cloudy in Potugal, and in that cloudy sky the people saw
what they saw. Yes, I agree the dancing of the sun was a
spiritual manifestation, but I'm not sure about the rain. I
mean, there were actual puddles of long-standing rain water that
disappeared. Perhaps those not seeing the sun phenomena were
nontheless 'dried' and saw the puddles disappear?
Dunno. Of course, we read varying accounts.
"Stars" in Scripture often represent angels. But, I take it
you're not referring to an angel when you say we each have a
star? [/font]
#Post#: 2087--------------------------------------------------
Re: Concerning Miracles
By: Piper Date: May 27, 2015, 12:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[font=trebuchet ms]Physical bodies ARE a drag! But, still
awesome and amazing, and they have their place in the physical
realm. I sometimes feel sad for my poor mortal body. When I'm
sick, I rub my tummy. Very soothing and thera-peutic to the
body. Try it. Must be why dogs adore a good belly rub. :)
I think when I die I will look upon my body and thank it for
serving me all these years. I wish I would be more faithful to
serve it better than I sometimes do. You know, proper food,
exercise, rest, meditation to ease stress.
Please explain "elementals." Sounds like Wiccan teachings?
[/font]
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