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       #Post#: 1903--------------------------------------------------
       Southern Baptists Go Pentecostal
       By: Kerry Date: May 14, 2015, 11:25 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       What a surprise!
       From baptistnews.com
  HTML http://baptistnews.com/ministry/organizations/item/30088-imb-drops-ban-on-private-prayer-language:
       The International Mission Board of the Southern Baptist
       Convention has dropped a controversial ban on missionaries who
       use a “private prayer language” that a decade ago helped
       stimulate the growth of blogs as a medium for dissent in
       denominational life.
       IMB trustees meeting May 12-13 in Louisville, Ky., approved
       streamlined guidelines for missionary appointment as part of a
       strategy being developed by new IMB President David Platt.
       Platt, a former Alabama pastor elected as the IMB president last
       August, said the IMB aims to provide “multiple pathways” for
       service that include both traditional missionaries and people in
       the pews who work overseas.
       The new policy requires that missionary candidates be “currently
       a baptized member of a Southern Baptist church” and demonstrate
       a “commitment to and identification with Southern Baptists.”
       Doctrinal requirements are “expressed in the current Baptist
       Faith and Message statement of the Southern Baptist Convention.”
       Gone are criteria narrower than the official SBC confession of
       faith last revised in 2000 which were put in place to ensure
       that people representing Southern Baptists overseas are planting
       churches that comport with Southern Baptist faith and practice.
       In November 2005 IMB trustees adopted guidelines requiring
       missionary candidates to be baptized in a Southern Baptist
       church and banning the use of a “private prayer language” by
       missionaries on the field.
       The action followed a 2003 white paper by a missions professor
       voicing concern about IMB cooperation with other “Great
       Commission Christians” around the globe and dropping a
       requirement that missionaries have a seminary degree.
       Keith Eitel, then at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary
       and now at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, warned
       that then-IMB President Jerry Rankin’s strategy lacked
       safeguards against “unbiblical practices,” like women holding
       authority over men, creeping into new churches being started
       overseas.
       ----------------------------
       And now the Baptists (not Southern Baptists) are baptizing
       babies.   From baptistnews.com
  HTML http://baptistnews.com/faith/theology/item/30022-baptist-pastor-in-ohio-baptizes-infant:
       There are plenty of Catholic, Episcopal, Lutheran and Methodist
       churches in Dayton, Ohio, where parents could have an infant
       child baptized.
       But one local couple wanted Rodney Kennedy to baptize their
       7-month-old son, even though they knew there was one hurdle to
       overcome: Kennedy is pastor at First Baptist Church in Dayton.
       And Baptists — both generally and specifically — do not baptize
       infants.
       “We knew that asking Rod, he might say no,” said Lucas, the
       boy’s father who requested only his first name be used in this
       article.
       But Kennedy did not say no, and during worship on Sunday, April
       19, he conducted his and his church’s first-ever infant baptism.
       “And the congregation burst into applause,” Kennedy told Baptist
       News Global. “And they don’t applaud much.”
       But the time between the request and Kennedy’s “yes” was filled
       with a month of prayer and discussion between the pastor and
       leaders of the American Baptist Churches USA congregation.
       And informing all of that has been years of increasingly
       liturgical practice for the church and Kennedy, who describes
       himself as “somewhat Catholic-Baptist.”
       One Southern Baptist said however that they seem to drifting
       towards infant baptism.  From baptistenewscom
  HTML http://baptistnews.com/faith/theology/item/30060-seminary-president-says-southern-baptists-drifting-toward-infant-baptism:
       Jason Allen, president of Midwestern Baptist Theological
       Seminary in Kansas City, Mo., said the first-ever infant baptism
       at First Baptist Church in Dayton, Ohio, made news because “by
       definition, a Baptist church does not baptize infants.”
       Allen said progressives, however, aren’t the only ones
       revisiting the rite of “believer’s baptism” in Baptist churches.
       “Within Southern Baptist life, we have been on a steady march
       towards infant baptism, routinely baptizing children younger and
       younger in age,” Allen said.
       A North American Mission Board task force on baptism and
       evangelism in 2014 found the only consistently growing age group
       in Southern Baptist Convention baptisms is 5 and under. Allen
       said the trend should prompt careful reflection and remind
       Southern Baptists of some of the dangers associated with
       baptizing young children.
       “As a convictional Baptist, it is hard for me to admit this, but
       when we baptize children too young to grasp the gospel and, as a
       result, whose hearts haven’t been affected by it, it is more
       troubling than a sprinkling of an infant,” Allen said.
       “Why is this? Because when Presbyterians, for example, sprinkle
       infants, they anticipate the child will one day be converted.
       When we baptize young children we are testifying they have been
       converted.”
       Allen said parents and churches should encourage children to
       follow Christ at every age, including the early years. “However,
       if we are not careful we can find ourselves routinely baptizing
       young children before they understand the gospel — or have been
       affected by it.”
       “The point is not that a child cannot be converted,” he said.
       “The point is that we should do our best to make sure conversion
       has happened in our children before baptizing them.”
       Allen said he isn’t for age-based criteria or a wait-and-see
       approach to baptizing new converts, and that spurious
       conversions occur regardless of the age.
       Denominationally speaking, Allen wondered if in their zeal for
       increasing baptism numbers, some Southern Baptists haven’t
       always given enough thought about who should be baptized. He
       said that has contributed, in part, “to the plague of
       unregenerate church members” in the SBC.
       “The challenge of unregenerate church membership is systemic
       within our convention,” Allen said. “With some 16 million
       members on our rolls, but only about a third of those in church
       attendance on any given Sunday, one doesn’t have to be
       exceedingly scrupulous to sense a problem.”
       #Post#: 1906--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Southern Baptists Go Pentecostal
       By: Heartsong Date: May 15, 2015, 6:32 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Kerry link=topic=216.msg1903#msg1903
       date=1431663937]
       What a surprise!
       From baptistnews.com
  HTML http://baptistnews.com/ministry/organizations/item/30088-imb-drops-ban-on-private-prayer-language:
       The International Mission Board of the Southern Baptist
       Convention has dropped a controversial ban on missionaries who
       use a “private prayer language” that a decade ago helped
       stimulate the growth of blogs as a medium for dissent in
       denominational life.
       IMB trustees meeting May 12-13 in Louisville, Ky., approved
       streamlined guidelines for missionary appointment as part of a
       strategy being developed by new IMB President David Platt.
       Platt, a former Alabama pastor elected as the IMB president last
       August, said the IMB aims to provide “multiple pathways” for
       service that include both traditional missionaries and people in
       the pews who work overseas.
       The new policy requires that missionary candidates be “currently
       a baptized member of a Southern Baptist church” and demonstrate
       a “commitment to and identification with Southern Baptists.”
       Doctrinal requirements are “expressed in the current Baptist
       Faith and Message statement of the Southern Baptist Convention.”
       Gone are criteria narrower than the official SBC confession of
       faith last revised in 2000 which were put in place to ensure
       that people representing Southern Baptists overseas are planting
       churches that comport with Southern Baptist faith and practice.
       In November 2005 IMB trustees adopted guidelines requiring
       missionary candidates to be baptized in a Southern Baptist
       church and banning the use of a “private prayer language” by
       missionaries on the field.
       The action followed a 2003 white paper by a missions professor
       voicing concern about IMB cooperation with other “Great
       Commission Christians” around the globe and dropping a
       requirement that missionaries have a seminary degree.
       Keith Eitel, then at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary
       and now at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, warned
       that then-IMB President Jerry Rankin’s strategy lacked
       safeguards against “unbiblical practices,” like women holding
       authority over men, creeping into new churches being started
       overseas.
       [/quote]
       I guess these missionaries won't have to go to school to learn
       other languages since they speak in tongues or "private prayer
       language".   ::)
       #Post#: 1910--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Southern Baptists Go Pentecostal
       By: Kerry Date: May 15, 2015, 10:23 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Heartsong link=topic=216.msg1906#msg1906
       date=1431689532]
       I guess these missionaries won't have to go to school to learn
       other languages since they speak in tongues or "private prayer
       language".   ::)
       [/quote]That might work out well, mightn't it?
       They're also relaxing other things, like guidelines about people
       who have been divorced.   What it suggests to me is they're
       worried about their numbers.   The number of Southern Baptists
       in the US is declining and has been for some time now.  So far
       as I know they haven't started closing churches yet in the US
       and they must be trying to expand in other countries by
       missionaries -- and must be struggling to find people who met
       their criteria.   Thus they needed to relax their standards.
       The days when someone like Jerry Falwell talked about the "moral
       majority" seem to be over.
       Not that they asked me, but my advice to them would be to merge
       with the regular Baptists.  There is no good reason for the
       Southern Baptists to keep existing since slavery was the issue
       they broke away from the regular Baptists over.  That's not an
       issue anymore.  I'd like to see that division healed.
       Quite honestly, I think Jerry Falwell did the Southern Baptists
       a lot of damage.  He started off preaching that you shouldn't
       mix religion with politics.  He preached you would go to hell if
       you did.   Then he changed his mind, starting in about 1976 and
       in 1980 backed Reagan.   And then he preached you'd go to hell
       if you didn't mix religion and politics.   For me,  the mixing
       of religion and politics is something horrible, and I always
       liked the traditional Baptist approach.
       There is a split now over politics now.   Someone invited Ben
       Carson to speak at a Southern Baptist event; and a group of
       pastors rebelled.   It is still mysterious to me.  They've had
       Catholics and Mormons giving speeches at Liberty University, so
       what is the big deal about having Ben Carson?  Because he's a
       Seventh Day Adventist?   So they said, but I also wondered if
       maybe there was  a racial element to it too.  Officially their
       position may not be racist, but I still had to wonder if the
       real objection of some was because he was black?
       At any rate, they "disinvited" Carson.   From baptistnews.com
  HTML http://baptistnews.com/ministry/organizations/item/30029-sbc-pastors-conference-disinvites-ben-carson:
       Pastors Conference President Willy Rice said in a blog April 24
       that he didn’t want the invitation to create an “unnecessary
       distraction” to SBC President Ronnie Floyd’s efforts to unify
       the denomination.
       An April 23 blog posting on B21 raised concerns about Carson’s
       religion, Seventh-day Adventist, which Southern Baptists
       consider heterodox, and that his appearance would perpetuate a
       popular perception that the SBC is in bed with the Republican
       Party.
       Rice, senior pastor at Calvary Baptist Church in Clearwater,
       Fla., said he believes Southern Baptists benefit by hearing from
       national leaders from outside the convention, noting that Carson
       has spoken to other evangelical groups, including at Southern
       Baptist churches.
       “He loves Southern Baptists and considers them friends,” Rice
       said. “I believe most Southern Baptists equally respect and
       appreciate him.”
       Rice said he also disagrees with those who believe the
       convention should avoid all political attachments.
       “While I know of no Southern Baptist leader who believes our
       answer is found in a political party or political solution,
       there are times when we must be engaged in the public arena,” he
       said.
       “If Southern Baptists will not speak, then who will?” Rice
       asked. “In these current days where Christian brothers are being
       butchered overseas and religious liberties are under assault at
       home, will we stay silent out of some misguided attempt to avoid
       politics altogether? I pray not. Political leaders who stand for
       religious liberty, speak out for the oppressed and have the
       strength of moral convictions should know they have a friend in
       Southern Baptists.”
       Rice said Carson, a popular conservative political commentator
       in media, was not running for president when he invited him to
       speak at the Pastors Conference. With it now appearing that he
       is planning to announce his candidacy for the GOP nomination,
       Rice said, “it has become clear to both Dr. Carson’s team and to
       me that Dr. Carson’s appearance could create an unnecessary
       distraction for us both.”
       “While I don’t agree with those who have voiced their opposition
       to this invitation, I have heard and respect their concerns and
       for the sake of unity we have reached a mutual decision with Dr.
       Carson’s team to forgo his appearance at our Pastors
       Conference,” Rice said.
       Who knows which faction will prevail there -- the pro-political
       or the anti-political faction?
       #Post#: 1914--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Southern Baptists Go Pentecostal
       By: Heartsong Date: May 15, 2015, 7:36 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       So it's about competition with Pentecostal churches in other
       countries. ...I wonder if they will teach the truth about
       speaking in tongues, probably not. That wouldn't sit too well
       with those who claim to speak in tongues and wouldn't help them
       gain converts.
       Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and
       began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them
       utterance.5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout
       men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was
       sounded abroad, the multitude came together, and were
       confounded, because every man heard them speak in his own
       language.7And they were all amazed and marveled, saying one to
       another, Behold, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And
       how hear we every man in our own tongue, in which we were
       born?...
       Southern Baptists to open their ranks to missionaries who speak
       in tongues
       Southern Baptists have long prided themselves as among the
       world’s most ambitious missionaries — reaching countries and
       regions few dared to go — but they are increasingly finding
       competition from fast-growing Pentecostal Christianity, which
       now has an estimated 300 million followers worldwide.
       Allowing Southern Baptist missionaries to speak in tongues, or
       have what some SBC leaders call a “private prayer language,”
       speaks to the growing strength of Pentecostal churches in
       Africa, Asia and South America, where Southern Baptists are
       competing for converts and where energized new Christians are
       enthusiastically embracing the practice.
       “In so many parts of the world, these charismatic experiences
       are normative,” said Bill Leonard, professor of church history
       at Wake Forest Divinity School. “Religious groups that oppose
       them get left behind evangelistically.”
       In 2005, the International Mission Board created guidelines that
       specifically disqualified all missionary candidates who spoke in
       tongues. For Southern Baptists, the practice, also known as
       glossolalia, ended after the death of Jesus’ apostles. The ban
       on speaking in tongues became a way to distinguish the
       denomination from others.
       These days, it can no longer afford that distinction.
       “Southern Baptists are experiencing such demographic trauma of
       membership and baptism they need new constituencies among
       nonwhite population,” Leonard said...
  HTML http://www.religionnews.com/2015/05/14/southern-baptists-open-ranks-missionaries-speak-tongues/
       #Post#: 1915--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Southern Baptists Go Pentecostal
       By: Kerry Date: May 15, 2015, 8:18 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Heartsong link=topic=216.msg1914#msg1914
       date=1431736604]
       Southern Baptists to open their ranks to missionaries who speak
       in tongues
       Southern Baptists have long prided themselves as among the
       world’s most ambitious missionaries — reaching countries and
       regions few dared to go — but they are increasingly finding
       competition from fast-growing Pentecostal Christianity, which
       now has an estimated 300 million followers worldwide.
       Allowing Southern Baptist missionaries to speak in tongues, or
       have what some SBC leaders call a “private prayer language,”
       speaks to the growing strength of Pentecostal churches in
       Africa, Asia and South America, where Southern Baptists are
       competing for converts and where energized new Christians are
       enthusiastically embracing the practice.
       “In so many parts of the world, these charismatic experiences
       are normative,” said Bill Leonard, professor of church history
       at Wake Forest Divinity School. “Religious groups that oppose
       them get left behind evangelistically.”
       In 2005, the International Mission Board created guidelines that
       specifically disqualified all missionary candidates who spoke in
       tongues. For Southern Baptists, the practice, also known as
       glossolalia, ended after the death of Jesus’ apostles. The ban
       on speaking in tongues became a way to distinguish the
       denomination from others.
       These days, it can no longer afford that distinction.[/quote]
       It does seem that way.   The growth of Pentecostalism in Latin
       America is astounding.   It's also taking hold in Africa and
       Asia,  mostly among the poor I think.  From Pew Reseach
  HTML http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/11/14/why-has-pentecostalism-grown-so-dramatically-in-latin-america/:
       Is there a deep connection today between American Pentecostal
       churches and those in Latin America?
       Chesnut: There is a connection, but today, things are reversed.
       Pentecostalism is now overwhelmingly anchored in Latin America,
       rather than the United States. In Brazil, for example, the
       Assemblies of God has 10 million to 12 million members, while
       the American Assemblies of God church has 2 million to 3
       million. So now, the Brazilian church is the big brother and the
       United States is seen as mission territory.
       Many [Latin American] churches are now sending out missionaries
       to the United States, as well as to Europe and Africa and even
       Asia. In the U.S., these missionaries have tried to attract
       Euro-Americans and African Americans. But so far, they’ve had
       little success. Instead, they’ve attracted Latin American
       immigrants living in the U.S.
       How has the Roman Catholic Church in Latin America responded to
       this shift away from Catholicism and toward Protestant churches?
       Chesnut: Starting in the late ’60s … the Catholic Church
       embraced charismatic Christianity. That has been the church’s
       primary response to Pentecostal inroads. The Catholic
       Charismatic Renewal offers the same ecstatic spirituality, the
       same healing, but people get to keep the Virgin Mary, and saints
       as well. So on paper, the Charismatic Renewal offers the best of
       both worlds.
       This strategy has been somewhat successful. It hasn’t stopped
       losses to the Pentecostal churches, but those losses would have
       been much more acute if it hadn’t been for this renewal movement
       in the Latin American Catholic Church.
       It's completely amazing to me that more people in Brazil belong
       to the Assemblies of God than in the US.
       Many Latinos are Catholic when they migrate to the US; but their
       children are leaving the Catholic Church and becoming
       Pentecostals.   So some Catholic churches have also gone
       Pentecostal, calling their movement the Catholic Charismatic
       Renewal.   That started in 1967 but has really taken off.  From
       what I read, the first Catholics to receive the "baptism by
       fire" did not have a Protestant lay hands on them; but they were
       together with Protestants and hoping to receive what they had.
       Here's one account.  From there, it took off.
  HTML https://books.google.com/books?id=_FlsgKjxv0cC&pg=PT129&lpg=PT129&dq=Ralph+Keifer+and+Patrick+Bourgeois&source=bl&ots=kLhIywWT29&sig=DPBCHQbKloHa3eiAvZjIxEPLnjk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pphWVdTsDMiagwSkmoDQDw&ved=0CEAQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=Ralph%20Keifer%20and%20Patrick%20Bourgeois&f=false
       From whom did Florence Dodge receive the spirit?  I'm not quite
       sure; but I'd say she's influenced the lives of over 100 million
       Catholics.
  HTML https://books.google.com/books?id=R4FJAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA8&lpg=PA8&dq="florence+dodge"+spirit&source=bl&ots=VGzQMam7w_&sig=Pr3LIbqmuU7o30l4p0lHnmGbkt8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cZlWVaCvEYWYNu2hgdgB&ved=0CE4Q6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=%22florence%20dodge%22%20spirit&f=false
       My guess is the Catholics allow it because of the numbers too.
       
       #Post#: 1918--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Southern Baptists Go Pentecostal
       By: Heartsong Date: May 16, 2015, 1:18 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Kerry link=topic=216.msg1915#msg1915
       date=1431739096]
       From whom did Florence Dodge receive the spirit?  I'm not quite
       sure; but I'd say she's influenced the lives of over 100 million
       Catholics.[/quote]
       Sollenberger(a friend of Dodge) met Florence in the 1960s during
       a conference in Fort Lauderdale, Florida., for the Holy Spirit
       Teaching Mission.
  HTML http://www.dodgefamily.org/Obituaries/FlorenceAdelineDodge.shtml
       Holy Spirit Teaching Mission (HSTM) an interdenominational
       charismatic teaching organisation based in Fort Lauderdale,
       Florida.
  HTML http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Basham
       In 1968, Derek Prince joined the Holy Spirit Teaching Mission
       (HSTM), which linked him to three other Charismatic Christian
       pastors living in Ft. Lauderdale: Don Basham, Bob Mumford, and
       Charles Simpson. The HSTM had been founded by businessman Eldon
       Purvis; but after the discovery of Purvis’s homosexuality the
       leadership team of the HSTM asked Basham, Mumford, Prince, and
       Simpson to help in managing the crisis.[14] Prince and the
       others changed the name of the HSTM to Christian Growth
       Ministries (CGM) in 1972.[15] CGM sought to counter what were
       seen as excesses within the Charismatic Movement by emphasizing
       discipleship and pastoral care which later on was abused by
       those in leadership positions. CGM continued with the
       publication of the New Wine magazine which began under the HSTM
       in June 1969.[16] David Moore, author of The Shepherding
       Movement, states "Essential for an accurate history of the
       Shepherding Movement is a complete collection of New Wine. The
       magazine, published from 1969 through 1986, was the principal
       publishing voice of the five teachers and the movement."[17] The
       group was joined by Ern Baxter, and the five men became known as
       the Fort Lauderdale Five. Their ministry became known as the
       Shepherding Movement. Different factions of the movement began
       to emphasise submission and authority.
  HTML http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Prince
       New Wine
       As a pioneering publication for what became known as the
       Charismatic Renewal, this magazine was a potent, influential,
       and beneficial resource dedicated to Christian Growth. Charles
       Simpson wrote and served alongside other notable Bible teachers
       on the Board of Directors for New Wine, including Don Basham,
       Ern Baxter, Bob Mumford and Derek Prince. The magazine became
       noted for its seminal teaching on prayer, spiritual warfare,
       worship, discipleship, family life, church growth and structure,
       and many other emphases that were picked up by a broad diversity
       of streams within the Charismatic movement and larger body of
       Christ. At its peak, New Wine was being sent to more than 140
       nations, and had many spin-off publications, translations, audio
       and video products, and live events. New Wine was published from
       1969-1986 and a new magazine was launched in early 1987 called
       Christian Conquest, under the new moniker of Charles Simpson
       Ministries & CSM Publishing.
  HTML https://www.csmpublishing.org/publications/new-wine-magazine/
       The obituary says that Dodge was at a conference for the Holy
       Spirit Teaching Mission in the 1960's. The HSTM was a
       charismatic teaching organization. I suppose it's possible that
       she received the spirit there from one of the Charismatic
       Christian Pastors of that organization.
       #Post#: 1927--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Southern Baptists Go Pentecostal
       By: Kerry Date: May 16, 2015, 8:32 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]after the discovery of Purvis’s homosexuality the
       leadership team of the HSTM asked Basham, Mumford, Prince, and
       Simpson to help in managing the crisis[/quote]
       Couldn't they tell if Purvis had the Spirit or not? These men
       must have not had  discernment of the Spirit to tell them to
       avoid such  entanglements.  With all the claims of being "led
       into all truth,"  I wonder how such things happen?    Things
       always seem to take these people by surprise.
       [quote]The obituary says that Dodge was at a conference for the
       Holy Spirit Teaching Mission in the 1960's. The HSTM was a
       charismatic teaching organization. I suppose it's possible that
       she received the spirit there from one of the Charismatic
       Christian Pastors of that organization.[/quote]A reasonable
       guess.   Then the spirit she received was given to the two
       Catholic men although not by the laying on of hands.
       This seems very unusual to me.  I thought Catholics depended on
       the transmission of the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands in
       a chain of events going back to the Apostles.   Why did they
       allow this spirit to enter their church?  Even if we suppose the
       two Catholic men did not receive it from a woman (and
       traditional Catholics might shudder at that thought), it was
       still the introduction of a spirit not  handed down generation
       to generation from the Apostles.
       #Post#: 1934--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Southern Baptists Go Pentecostal
       By: Heartsong Date: May 17, 2015, 11:16 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Kerry link=topic=216.msg1927#msg1927
       date=1431826340]
       Couldn't they tell if Purvis had the Spirit or not? These men
       must have not had  discernment of the Spirit to tell them to
       avoid such  entanglements.  With all the claims of being "led
       into all truth,"  I wonder how such things happen?    Things
       always seem to take these people by surprise.  Then the spirit
       she received was given to the two Catholic men although not by
       the laying on of hands.
       This seems very unusual to me.  I thought Catholics depended on
       the transmission of the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands in
       a chain of events going back to the Apostles.   Why did they
       allow this spirit to enter their church?  Even if we suppose the
       two Catholic men did not receive it from a woman (and
       traditional Catholics might shudder at that thought), it was
       still the introduction of a spirit not  handed down generation
       to generation from the Apostles. [/quote]
       I didn't even make that connection. It seems to explain some
       things that have been happening in the Catholic Church with that
       kind of spirit.
       #Post#: 3003--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Southern Baptists Go Pentecostal
       By: Kerry Date: August 28, 2015, 8:31 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       After all that, now the Southern Baptists say they're running
       out of money for all those missionaries.   From Baptist News
  HTML https://baptistnews.com/ministry/organizations/item/30416-southern-baptists-to-cut-missionary-force-by-15-percent:<br
       />
       The Southern Baptist Convention’s International Mission Board
       will offer voluntary incentive for early retirement in an
       attempt to cut between 600 and 800 jobs from the agency’s
       missionary force and staff.
       david platt imb
       David Platt
       Leaders of the Richmond, Va.,-based IMB released details a plan
       to address ongoing budget shortfalls Aug. 27, the one-year
       anniversary of the election of agency President David Platt.
       Currently the IMB supports 4,800 missionaries and 450 staff,
       according to an FAQ sheet issued Aug. 27. The plan calls for
       reducing the total number of missionaries to 4,200 and
       liquidating property in order to keep as many on the field as
       possible. Leaders will also study day-to-day operation and
       long-range planning of the Richmond staff.
       Sebastian Traeger, the IMB’s executive vice president, said the
       goal is “to align our cost structure with the amount of money
       given to us each year.”
       This year IMB anticipates a budget shortfall of $21 million, and
       over the past six years expenditures have exceeded revenue by a
       total of $210 million.
       *****************************************************