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#Post#: 1959--------------------------------------------------
Re: Moses and Jesus ?
DIR By: Twinc
Date: May 20, 2015, 2:48 am
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--- Quote from: Kerry link ---
>
> Oh Lord, what did I do to deserve this? Never heard of him.
> I already answered it, and you chose to debate the definition
of "follow" instead.
>
--- End Quote ---
Dr.Wm R Cooper wrote the book in 2013 - so please update twinc
#Post#: 1960--------------------------------------------------
Re: Moses and Jesus ?
DIR By: Kerry
Date: May 20, 2015, 5:31 am
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--- Quote from: Twinc link ---
>
> Dr.Wm R Cooper wrote the book in 2013 - so please update twinc
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't follow every passing fad. So he can sell books with new
fangled ideas. I think I trust the summary of it at Catholic
Encyclopedia more than what Dr. Cooper has to say.
HTML http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10057a.htm
Ancient ecclesiastical writers are at variance as to the date of
the composition of the First Gospel. Eusebius (in his
Chronicle), Theophylact, and Euthymius Zigabenus are of opinion
that the Gospel of Matthew was written eight years, and
Nicephorus Callistus fifteen years, after Christ's
Ascension--i.e. about A.D. 38-45. According to Eusebius, Matthew
wrote his Gospel in Hebrew when he left Palestine. Now,
following a certain tradition (admittedly not too reliable), the
Apostles separated twelve years after the Ascension, hence the
Gospel would have been written about the year 40-42, but
following Eusebius (Church History III.5.2), it is possible to
fix the definitive departure of the Apostles about the year 60,
in which event the writing of the Gospel would have taken place
about the year 60-68. St Irenĉus is somewhat more exact
concerning the date of the First Gospel, as he says: "Matthew
produced his Gospel when Peter and Paul were evangelizing and
founding the Church of Rome, consequently about the years
64-67." However, this text presents difficulties of
interpretation which render its meaning uncertain and prevent us
from deducing any positive conclusion.
In our day opinion is rather divided. Catholic critics, in
general, favour the years 40-45, although some (e.g. Patrizi) go
back to 36-39 or (e.g. Aberle) to 37. Belser assigns 41-42;
Conély, 40-50; Schafer, 50-51; Hug, Reuschl, Schanz, and Rose,
60-67. This last opinion is founded on the combined testimonies
of St. Irenĉus and Eusebius, and on the remark inserted
parenthetically in the discourse of Jesus in chapter xxiv, 15:
"When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation,
which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy
place": here the author interrupts the sentence and invites the
reader to take heed of what follows, viz.: "Then they that are
in Judea, let them flee to the mountains." As there would have
been no occasion for a like warning had the destruction of
Jerusalem already taken place, Matthew must have written his
Gospel before the year 70 (about 65-70 according to Batiffol).
Protestant and Liberalistic critics also are greatly at variance
as regards the time of the composition of the First Gospel. Zahn
sets the date about 61-66, and Godet about 60-66; Keim, Meyer,
Holtzmann (in his earlier writings), Beyschlag, and Maclean,
before 70, Bartiet about 68-69; W. Allen and Plummer, about
65-75; Hilgenfeld and Holtzmann (in his later writings), soon
after 70; B. Weiss and Harnack, about 70-75; Renan, later than
85, Réville, between 69 and 96, Jülicher, in 81-96, Montefiore,
about 90-100, Volkmar, in 110; Baur, about 130-34. The following
are some of the arguments advanced to prove that the First
Gospel was written several years after the Fall of Jerusalem.
When Jesus prophesies to His Apostles that they will be
delivered up to the councils, scourged in the synagogues,
brought before governors and kings for His sake; that they will
give testimony of Him, will for Him be hated and driven from
city to city (x, 17-23) and when He commissions them to teach
all nations and make them His disciples, His words intimate, it
is claimed, the lapse of many years, the establishment of the
Christian Church in distant parts, and its cruel persecution by
the Jews and even by Roman emperors and governors. Moreover,
certain sayings of the Lord--such as: "Thou art Peter; and upon
this rock I will build my church" (16:18), "If he [thy brother]
will not hear them: tell the Church" (xviii, 10)--carry us to a
time when the Christian Church was already constituted, a time
that could not have been much earlier than the year 100. The
fact is, that what was predicted by Our Lord, when He announced
future events and established the charter and foundations of His
Church, is converted into reality and made coexistent with the
writing of the First Gospel. Hence, to give these arguments a
probatory value it would be necessary either to deny Christ's
knowledge of the future or to maintain that the teachings
embodied in the First Gospel were not authentic.
Do you have something you want to say? If so, I fear I may
give up on trying to pry it out of you if you don't get to it.
To quote what Jesus said to Judas, "That thou doest, do
quickly." ;)
#Post#: 1963--------------------------------------------------
Re: Moses and Jesus ?
DIR By: Twinc
Date: May 20, 2015, 1:32 pm
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still waiting for an answer from anyone to my original and
actual post - a reasonable and proper answer instead of dodgems
- twinc
#Post#: 1969--------------------------------------------------
Re: Moses and Jesus ?
DIR By: bradley
Date: May 20, 2015, 5:30 pm
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Pride is a stain on the fabric of the beauty that God has
created. Why is it that so few of us can see this in others
but not ourselves?
#Post#: 1970--------------------------------------------------
Re: Moses and Jesus ?
DIR By: Piper
Date: May 20, 2015, 8:31 pm
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Twinc,
Of course Jesus spoke to and through Moses. Moses is seen as a
'type' of Jesus, right? Our lives, we're being led through the
wilderness toward the Promised Land? The mistakes of the
Israelites are examples for us to avoid, and the ways they
pleased God are things we should immitate. The journey is
difficult, but we're promised great things on the other side if
we trust, obey, and persevere. Jesus warned few will make it?
Yet, although Moses did not enter in, still he was later seen in
glory at the Transfiguration. Repentance is never wasted?
Don't stop believin'.
But what do you think? Not certain what you're looking for . .
.
#Post#: 1977--------------------------------------------------
Re: Moses and Jesus ?
DIR By: Twinc
Date: May 21, 2015, 6:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Piper link ---
>
> Twinc,
>
> Of course Jesus spoke to and through Moses. Moses is seen as
a 'type' of Jesus, right? Our lives, we're being led through
the wilderness toward the Promised Land? The mistakes of the
Israelites are examples for us to avoid, and the ways they
pleased God are things we should immitate. The journey is
difficult, but we're promised great things on the other side if
we trust, obey, and persevere. Jesus warned few will make it?
Yet, although Moses did not enter in, still he was later seen in
glory at the Transfiguration. Repentance is never wasted?
>
> Don't stop believin'.
>
> But what do you think? Not certain what you're looking for .
. .
>
--- End Quote ---
Piper - I am looking for born again and other Christians who do
believe and accept what was written by Moses and believed and
accepted by Jesus who said we must also believe and accept - so
Moses wrote six days of creation in an instant on each of the
six days out of nothing complete and perfect - dinosaurs created
on the same day as man - earth before the sun - global flood -
Adam and Eve etc - so do you know any who do not accept or
believe Jesus - twinc
#Post#: 1983--------------------------------------------------
Re: Moses and Jesus ?
DIR By: Amadeus
Date: May 21, 2015, 10:15 am
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--- Quote from: Twinc link ---
>
> Did Jesus Christ speak to and also through Moses - if so or
not what follows - any comments - twinc
>
--- End Quote ---
And if anyone's answer is different from yours even though that
anyone's answer came from God, what then?
Did Moses ever speak from anything other than from God? For
example did anything written in scripture come from his own ways
rather than from God's Way?
Why did you specify Jesus Christ in your question rather than
saying, 'Did God speak to and also through Moses'?
Were not the following words of Jesus as true in the time of
Moses as when Jesus spoke them on the Mount of Olives?
"Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of
man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of
myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things."
John 8:28
#Post#: 1988--------------------------------------------------
Re: Moses and Jesus ?
DIR By: Piper
Date: May 21, 2015, 11:58 am
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Seems twinc is chewing on the literal creation story once again,
from what his reply to me was. He asserts to simply, simply
believe what is written there.
Some do. Some don't.
I think, twink, that God could turn the light off in an instant
if He chooses, so certainly He could turn it on in an instant.
Such is the breath I breathe. Such is the light of life in the
eyes of all living things. On, then off . . . In a defined
instant.
#Post#: 1990--------------------------------------------------
Re: Moses and Jesus ?
DIR By: Twinc
Date: May 21, 2015, 2:45 pm
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ah Piper - what is even more awesome and enchanting is that we
do not breathe and live but if we did brearhe we would be dead
and in fact extinct long ago - it is in Him that we move and
live and have our being - twinc
#Post#: 1991--------------------------------------------------
Re: Moses and Jesus ?
DIR By: Twinc
Date: May 21, 2015, 2:58 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Piper link ---
>
> Twinc,
>
> Of course Jesus spoke to and through Moses. Moses is seen as
a 'type' of Jesus, right? Our lives, we're being led through
the wilderness toward the Promised Land? The mistakes of the
Israelites are examples for us to avoid, and the ways they
pleased God are things we should immitate. The journey is
difficult, but we're promised great things on the other side if
we trust, obey, and persevere. Jesus warned few will make it?
Yet, although Moses did not enter in, still he was later seen in
glory at the Transfiguration. Repentance is never wasted?
>
> Don't stop believin'.
>
> But what do you think? Not certain what you're looking for .
. .
>
--- End Quote ---
Jesus Christ,the son and word of God spoke to Moses face to face
and mouth to mouth - twinc
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