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#Post#: 443--------------------------------------------------
Re: Salvation~for some or for all?
By: Amadeus Date: December 15, 2014, 9:03 am
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[quote author=HereticMouse link=topic=20.msg442#msg442
date=1418653847]
They are hypothetical and generalised. Its true. But still
valuable. How else can you test your theology but to ask
questions of it?[/quote]
[font=courier]
Ultimately God is the One who tests us. Yes, I continue to ask
questions, of others, of myself, and of God. They have at times
been placed on the public forum, but that has not always been
the case. I also know that over the years some of my answers
have been changed. Change can be good or bad. It depends I would
say upon who it is that we are following.[/font]
[quote]Based on what we know, from our reading of the Bible,
quiet times, teaching and preaching we've heard etc - what is
the answer to the questions? [/quote]
[font=courier]Whether they are expressed openly or not, each of
has an answer, even if the answer really is: 'I don't know.
Should I always give my answers, such as they presently are to
everyone who asks of me? Jesus did not always.
"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose
under the heaven:
a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;" Ecc 3:1,7[/font]
[quote]There are some, like me, who say that death is not the
deciding moment for people and their ultimate destination. I
have no problem answering the hypothetical question as my
theology fully supports the nature and character of God.[/quote]
[font=courier]
You then are very certain on these things based on your
theology. I would hope that if your theology is in your heart
that it always pleases God.
"Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night,
before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I
not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples." Matt
26:34-35 [/font]
[quote]I have noticed in conversations with friends and people
on the internet, a resistance to answer hypothetical questions
when their theology doesn't seem to fully support the character
of God. Which to my mind suggests that their theology is
suspect.[/quote]
[font=courier]God who knows everything in every heart is able to
answer every question, but man...?
"Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine
hand upon my mouth.
Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I
will proceed no further." Job 40:3-5 [/font]
[quote]I do wonder if that's why you resisted answering the
questions.[/quote]
[font=courier]Again, there are times to speak and times to
remain silent:
"But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the
church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:28
"And when he was accused of the chief priests and elders, he
answered nothing.
Then said Pilate unto him, Hearest thou not how many things they
witness against thee?
And he answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor
marvelled greatly." Matt 27:12-14
Of course there is always this:
"Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he
that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding." Prov
17:28[/font]
#Post#: 445--------------------------------------------------
Re: Salvation~for some or for all?
By: HappyHeretic Date: December 15, 2014, 11:25 am
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[quote author=Amadeus link=topic=20.msg443#msg443
date=1418655782]
[font=courier]
[font=courier][size=14pt]Again, there are times to speak and
times to remain silent:
[/font]
[/quote]
So what you're saying is that asking hypothetical questions is
not a problem, but that you would rather not answer them in
public?
Mike HH
#Post#: 448--------------------------------------------------
Re: Salvation~for some or for all?
By: Amadeus Date: December 15, 2014, 12:26 pm
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[quote author=HereticMouse link=topic=20.msg445#msg445
date=1418664340]
So what you're saying is that asking hypothetical questions is
not a problem, but that you would rather not answer them in
public?
Mike HH
[/quote]
[font=courier]No, what I am saying is, sometimes it is right to
answer real questions privately, sometimes publicly and
sometimes not at all. My answers to hypothetical questions
should be perhaps more careful because someone with a real
question on the question may read my answer and try to apply it
his situation and it really will not fit or even be absolutely
wrong. [/font]
#Post#: 457--------------------------------------------------
Re: Salvation~for some or for all?
By: HappyHeretic Date: December 16, 2014, 3:15 am
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Fair enough, I guess.
I tend to take a different approach, though, specially on this
topic.
Regards,
Mike HM
#Post#: 459--------------------------------------------------
Re: Salvation~for some or for all?
By: HappyHeretic Date: December 16, 2014, 3:57 am
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Universalism and Christmas.
The guys at Nomad
HTML http://nomad.libsyn.com/asked
Robin Parry (author of The
Evangelical Universalist) to talk about Christmas from a
Universalist perspective. This is what he had to say:
Click here to visit Nomad's page
HTML http://nomad.libsyn.com/12-days-of-christmas-03-robin-parry-a-universalist-christmas
If you have 10 minutes or so, its worth listening to.
Mike HM
#Post#: 460--------------------------------------------------
Re: Salvation~for some or for all?
By: Alfie Date: December 16, 2014, 3:58 am
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The OP asks:-
a) would every member of your race be tormented in hellfire for
eternity?
b) would some or all end up in God's New Jerusalem?
c) and if the answer is 'some' then what would determine the
distinction?
a) would every member of your race be tormented in hellfire for
eternity?
(A) MY RACE?
in the light of call no man father ;who is my race?
now my human father surely caused me to be born ;
just as all of mankind came from ADAM and EVE
and surely this is mankind
-------------------------------------------- and surely this is
the old man
but i am a Christian; and
Matthew 16:25; For whoever wants to save their life will lose
it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it.
Mark 8:35; For whoever wants to save their life will lose it,
but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save
it.
Luke 9:24; For whoever wants to save their life will lose it,
but whoever loses their life for me will save it.
and in becoming a christian guess what happened?
i wanted to save my life so that old man had to die or be lost
and in that dying or losing it i live ;
and become
----------------------------------------------------------------
--
that new ( man) creation?
so who is of my race ?
--------------------------- answer other Christians
will other Christians be in hell ?
--------------------------- no
b) would some or all end up in God's New Jerusalem?
(B) would some or all of my race ( new creations) end up in
God's new Jerusalem ?
no --- we see the 24elders around the throne
------- we hear of JESUS going to make mansions in heaven
------- from the churches in revelations we see different
locations ( new heaven and new earth)
c) and if the answer is 'some' then what would determine the
distinction?
( C) what is the distinction between the old man and the new
creation ?
family
------- the old man ( mankind left the family of GOD at the tree
of knowledge of good and evil)
------- the new ( man) creation was "kinsman redeemed back into
the family of GOD
SO;
the new Jerusalem is for "family"
the new heaven is for "family"
so what do you call the place where " family" doesn't reside?
--- hell?
#Post#: 462--------------------------------------------------
Re: Salvation~for some or for all?
By: HappyHeretic Date: December 16, 2014, 6:05 am
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[quote author=Al link=topic=20.msg460#msg460 date=1418723938]
The OP asks:-
a) would every member of your race be tormented in hellfire for
eternity?
b) would some or all end up in God's New Jerusalem?
c) and if the answer is 'some' then what would determine the
distinction?
a) would every member of your race be tormented in hellfire for
eternity?
(A) MY RACE?
[/quote]
Clearly the original post was meaning the tribe/race you
belonged to - not just the members of the tribe/race that became
Christians.
Mike HM
#Post#: 463--------------------------------------------------
Re: Salvation~for some or for all?
By: HappyHeretic Date: December 16, 2014, 6:09 am
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[quote]
The problem with Christians is they aren't willing to give up
their preconceived notions. They read one or two passages from
the Bible and reach a conclusion that may be right or wrong. If
they run into other passages later that contradict their
interpretations of the first passages, they aren't willing to
abandon their first conclusions. They either say, "Oh, that's a
mystery" or "We'll understand that later." They don't want to
know; they want to believe they already know and are right.
That is a glaringly true statement; and the truth of it can be
seen by how so few people alter their views in discussions.
They argue, but few ever change their minds. Is Scripture
profitable for reproof and correction? It should be; but
people don't use it that way. It's used to "prove" what they
already think they know is true.
[/quote]
Not true of everyone. In fact in the few months I have been
"forumming" with this bunch of people, I have changed views and
I have seen others change their views.
Have you ever changed yours as a result of forum discussion?
Regards,
Mike HM
#Post#: 467--------------------------------------------------
Re: Salvation~for some or for all?
By: Kerry Date: December 16, 2014, 6:53 am
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[quote author=HereticMouse link=topic=20.msg463#msg463
date=1418731780]
Not true of everyone.[/quote]It was a general statement.
[quote]In fact in the few months I have been "forumming" with
this bunch of people, I have changed views and I have seen
others change their views.[/quote]I don't know you well enough
to say if you altered minor or major beliefs. Many people are
willing to change their views on some points but not on others.
I believe I may offended Ezra so much he may not be back.
I'll admit I have a way of raising people's ire. On another
forum, I recently had an Orthodox priest go off on me. I think
I was driving him crazy. I also feel confident he won't change
his mind about much. He has too much invested in his current
ideas.
[quote]Have you ever changed yours as a result of forum
discussion?[/quote]
Yes. Nonny Mouse can tell you about a Hasidic Jew who went by
the name "Holy Brother." (Nonny Mouse didn't care for him
much.) He was studying in Israel; and indeed he was asked to
sit temporarily on the Sanhedrin. I forget his real name.
While we shared many beliefs to begin with, he also changed my
mind about a lot of things. I also learned to consider before
posting, not posting hastily just assuming I must be right.
Most of the people who changed my views were not people on the
internet however. I have considered so many ideas, and changed
my mind so often, I seldom find I need to much anymore.
I have also seen threads which I thought had convinced people
only to find them repeating later the very positions I thought
they had abandoned.
#Post#: 470--------------------------------------------------
Re: Salvation~for some or for all?
By: HappyHeretic Date: December 16, 2014, 7:27 am
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[quote author=Danger Mouse link=topic=20.msg467#msg467
date=1418734388]
It was a general statement.
[/quote]
Err - this wasn't aimed at you particularly, DM, rather I was
asking Al, as it was in his sig.
And maybe I shouldn't have questioned it - its inaccuracy and
negativity did annoy me, though.
Regards,
Mike
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