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#Post#: 1753--------------------------------------------------
Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
DIR By: Poppy
Date: May 5, 2015, 3:26 pm
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--- Quote ---
> Why do you "seem" to expect others to belief the same as
yourself?
--- End Quote ---
That's not the problem it's that this discussion is off topic.
Which was about praying in tongues for personal edification.
It's now got hijacked into a discussion about counterfeit gifts
which is a different topic entirely.
#Post#: 1754--------------------------------------------------
Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
DIR By: Piper
Date: May 5, 2015, 3:34 pm
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(Poppy, our posts crossed. While my first paragraphs below may
not follow your desire for the thread, I hope my latter do, and
perhaps explanation can be provided for what I do not
understand.)
I don't perceive negativity, as much as a warning to use
discernment, especially within certain "ministries." I must
admit that when I see such videos, I find them so utterly
disturbing, I must turn them off. I KNOW I could not be in such
a meeting. All warning bells sound loudly; I would flee,
seeking space and clean air.
I, too, am troubled to think that children are subjected to such
"meetings." Truly, it seems without order, sobriety, or
decency, like unto mass hysteria, and even possession by that
which is not of God.
This contrasts greatly with a lone believer for whom the Holy
Spirit intercedes with "groanings which can not be expressed in
words," as in Romans 8:26, which I don't think is quite the same
as "praying in tongues."
1 Cor. 14:14 does use the words "pray in a tongue," so such
prayer must exist as a gift, although I have yet to understand
the benefit of uttering seeming words that I can not understand,
and doing so makes me uneasy. However, my Catholic bible has
this to say, as the verses seem to encourage interpretation of a
tongue necessary within a meeting or the listener will not be
edified:
--- Quote ---
> An uninterpreted tongue makes conscious participation in the
prayer impossible both for the individual speaking and for the
congregation listening. Even so, the gift engages the spirit of
the worshiper, enabling him to utter "mysteries in the Spirit."
--- End Quote ---
I would not judge tongues, in general, to be "wrong" or "false,"
but it is a phenomenon I don't understand, except in the context
of languages unknown being spoken or understood in order to
convey a spiritual message condoned by God for edification or
protection of persons.
As for 'praying in tongues,' I get confused: If the Spirit
prays for us in groanings not expressed in words, why would our
own spirit have need of uttering unknown words to communicate
with God? If the Spirit prays for us without words when we know
not how to pray, why are words on our part necessary at all? I
believe my Spirit can communicate with God, and does so, without
words being necessary, sort of like the communication between
husband and wife by only a glance or a touch, for example. God
knows me inside and out; probably my spirit communes with Him
constantly. My mind, however, might prefer words, but I think
my spirit supersedes my mind in the things of God, especially
concerning communication with Him. Does that make sense? To
me, it is a matter of faith that God simply "knows" my innermost
fears, needs, desires, etc.
However, if one is spiritually soothed or encouraged by praying
in tongues, it would seem beneficial. But, can one find
direction in doing so? If God responds to words not understood,
how would His response be recognized as a response?
(I'm probably overthinking things . . .)
#Post#: 1755--------------------------------------------------
Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
DIR By: A nonny mouse
Date: May 5, 2015, 3:39 pm
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For my part I understand the emphasis of your OP Poppy.
But can the two forms of 'tongues' be separated?
For instance does anyone pray privately in tongues who has not
received what is called the Baptism in the Holy Spirit in the
form promoted with the speaking in tongues as an indispensable
part?
And do those who have fallen for the counterfeit version in
meetings pray privately as per the genuine version?
IMO the 'must empty your minds' promotion of Tongues via the
Baptism in the Holy Spirit is far too dangerous a practice to
not give the danger careful consideration even if only talking
about private prayer in tongues.
#Post#: 1756--------------------------------------------------
Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
DIR By: A nonny mouse
Date: May 5, 2015, 3:45 pm
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Also what is the difference between praying in tongues in
private and praying in tongues in meetings?
When I accidentally find myself in a prayer meeting where
members pray in tongues I creep out.
#Post#: 1757--------------------------------------------------
Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
DIR By: Piper
Date: May 5, 2015, 3:59 pm
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I wonder if the Apostles KNEW they were speaking (or praying) in
tongues unknown, or was it simply a divine manifestation which
occurred to enable communication, without the Apostles even
realizing what they were doing. This would seem in line with
the thought that we do not set out or 'try' to speak in tongues,
but that the Spirit enables us when it is necessary to achieve a
specific purpose.
#Post#: 1758--------------------------------------------------
Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
DIR By: Deborah
Date: May 5, 2015, 4:22 pm
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--- Quote from: A Trusting Deist link ---
>
> For my part I understand the emphasis of your OP Poppy.
> But can the two forms of 'tongues' be separated?
> For instance does anyone pray privately in tongues who has not
received what is called the Baptism in the Holy Spirit in the
form promoted with the speaking in tongues as an indispensable
part?
> And do those who have fallen for the counterfeit version in
meetings pray privately as per the genuine version?
> IMO the 'must empty your minds' promotion of Tongues via the
Baptism in the Holy Spirit is far too dangerous a practice to
not give the danger careful consideration even if only talking
about private prayer in tongues.
>
--- End Quote ---
When I became a Christian in the 1970s, the charismatic movement
as I then encountered it was nothing like the kind of meeting
generally portrayed in such videos. No rolling around on the
floor or grunting then!
At that time I didn't come up against anyone who taught that
praying in tongues was compulsory. In fact, it was after reading
a book that assured me that baptism in the Spirit might not be
associated with any manifestations at all that I received the
gift of tongues.
Now.. I have never prayed in tongues in public, so the issue of
interpretation has not arisen. I use it in private. Recently, I
have most often prayed in tongues while driving my car. It's no
more distracting than listening to the radio.
My mind is not involved in the production of tongue, so there
is no need for me to 'empty' it.
--- Quote from: Piper link ---
>
>
> such prayer must exist as a gift, although I have yet to
understand the benefit of uttering seeming words that I can not
understand, and doing so makes me uneasy...
>
> However, if one is spiritually soothed or encouraged by
praying in tongues, it would seem beneficial. But, can one find
direction in doing so? If God responds to words not understood,
how would His response be recognized as a response?
>
> (I'm probably overthinking things . . .)
> [/font][/size]
>
--- End Quote ---
I find have always found prayer very difficult, simply because I
am a person who finds 'making conversation' very difficult - and
it's no easier when talking to God! Praying in tongues helps to
overcome this barrier and has given me more confidence.
#Post#: 1759--------------------------------------------------
Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
DIR By: Poppy
Date: May 5, 2015, 4:31 pm
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--- Quote ---
> I KNOW I could not be in such a meeting. All warning bells
sound loudly; I would flee, seeking space and clean air.
--- End Quote ---
me too Piper.
[quote=Deborah]My mind is not involved in the production of
tongue, so there is no need for me to 'empty' it. [/quote]
I have never been taught to empty my mind in order to pray in
tongues and that the emptying of ones mind can be a dangerous
thing so I would be very suspicious of anyone that suggested it
particularly in Christian circles.
[quote-Deborah]I find have always found prayer very difficult,
simply because I am a person who finds 'making conversation'
very difficult - and it's no easier when talking to God! Praying
in tongues helps to overcome this barrier and has given me more
confidence.
[/quote]
This is similar to my own experience.
#Post#: 1760--------------------------------------------------
Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
DIR By: Poppy
Date: May 5, 2015, 4:34 pm
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This is what Paul says about tongues.
For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but
to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by
the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 14:2
I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 1
Corinthians 14:18
#Post#: 1761--------------------------------------------------
Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
DIR By: Piper
Date: May 5, 2015, 4:40 pm
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Did Jesus pray in tongues? Or was it strictly a gift imparted
after He ascended?
#Post#: 1762--------------------------------------------------
Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
DIR By: Poppy
Date: May 5, 2015, 4:40 pm
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There are different manifestations of speaking or praying in
tongues.
One can be led by the Spirit to pray out loud in a meeting for a
specific reason and there will be an interpretation either by
the one who spoke or by another.
Then there are the groaning intercessory prayers in the spirit
as God lays something on our hearts.
There is the type of tongues which is the speaking in a real
language that one hasn't learned for those who are there to
hear.
And then there is the use of tongues in our personal prayer time
for our own edification. Which is what my OP is about.
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