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       #Post#: 1753--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
       By: Poppy Date: May 5, 2015, 3:26 pm
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       [quote]Why do you "seem" to expect others to belief the same as
       yourself?[/quote]
       That's not the problem it's that this discussion is off topic.
       Which was about praying in tongues for personal edification.
       It's now got hijacked into a discussion about counterfeit gifts
       which is a different topic entirely.
       #Post#: 1754--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
       By: Piper Date: May 5, 2015, 3:34 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       (Poppy, our posts crossed.  While my first paragraphs below may
       not follow your desire for the thread, I hope my latter do, and
       perhaps explanation can be provided for what I do not
       understand.)
       [font=trebuchet ms]I don't perceive negativity, as much as a
       warning to use discernment, especially within certain
       "ministries."  I must admit that when I see such videos, I find
       them so utterly disturbing, I must turn them off.  I KNOW I
       could not be in such a meeting.  All warning bells sound loudly;
       I would  flee, seeking space and clean air.
       I, too, am troubled to think that children are subjected to such
       "meetings."  Truly, it seems without order, sobriety, or
       decency, like unto mass hysteria, and even possession by that
       which is not of God.
       This contrasts greatly with a lone believer for whom the Holy
       Spirit intercedes with "groanings which can not be expressed in
       words," as in Romans 8:26, which I don't think is quite the same
       as "praying in tongues."
       
       1 Cor. 14:14 does use the words "pray in a tongue," so such
       prayer must exist as a gift, although I have yet to understand
       the benefit of uttering seeming words that I can not understand,
       and doing so makes me uneasy.  However, my Catholic bible has
       this to say, as the verses seem to encourage interpretation of a
       tongue necessary within a meeting or the listener will not be
       edified:[/font]
       [quote][font=times new roman]An uninterpreted tongue makes
       conscious participation in the prayer impossible both for the
       individual speaking and for the congregation listening. Even so,
       the gift engages the spirit of the worshiper, enabling him to
       utter "mysteries in the Spirit." [/font][/quote]
       [font=trebuchet ms]I would not judge tongues, in general, to be
       "wrong" or "false," but it is a phenomenon I don't understand,
       except in the context of languages unknown being spoken or
       understood in order to convey a spiritual message condoned by
       God for edification or protection of persons.
       As for 'praying in tongues,' I get confused:  If the Spirit
       prays for us in groanings not expressed in words, why would our
       own spirit have need of uttering unknown words to communicate
       with God?  If the Spirit prays for us without words when we know
       not how to pray, why are words on our part necessary at all?  I
       believe my Spirit can communicate with God, and does so, without
       words being necessary, sort of like the communication between
       husband and wife by only a glance or a touch, for example.  God
       knows me inside and out; probably my spirit communes with Him
       constantly.  My mind, however, might prefer words, but I think
       my spirit supersedes my mind in the things of God, especially
       concerning communication with Him.  Does that make sense?  To
       me, it is a matter of faith that God simply "knows" my innermost
       fears, needs, desires, etc.
       However, if one is spiritually soothed or encouraged by praying
       in tongues, it would seem beneficial.  But, can one find
       direction in doing so?  If God responds to words not understood,
       how would His response be recognized as a response?
       (I'm probably overthinking things . . .)
       [/font]
       #Post#: 1755--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
       By: A nonny mouse Date: May 5, 2015, 3:39 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       For my part I understand the emphasis of your OP Poppy.
       But can the two forms of 'tongues' be separated?
       For instance does anyone pray privately in tongues who has not
       received what is called the Baptism in the Holy Spirit in the
       form promoted with the speaking in tongues as an indispensable
       part?
       And do those who have fallen for the counterfeit version in
       meetings pray privately as per the genuine version?
       IMO the 'must empty your minds' promotion of Tongues via the
       Baptism in the Holy Spirit is far too dangerous a practice to
       not give the danger careful consideration even if only talking
       about private prayer in tongues.
       #Post#: 1756--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
       By: A nonny mouse Date: May 5, 2015, 3:45 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Also what is the difference between praying in tongues in
       private and praying in tongues in meetings?
       When I accidentally find myself in a prayer meeting where
       members pray in tongues I creep out.
       #Post#: 1757--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
       By: Piper Date: May 5, 2015, 3:59 pm
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       [font=trebuchet ms]I wonder if the Apostles KNEW they were
       speaking (or praying) in tongues unknown, or was it simply a
       divine manifestation which occurred to enable communication,
       without the Apostles even realizing what they were doing.  This
       would seem in line with the thought that we do not set out or
       'try' to speak in tongues, but that the Spirit enables us when
       it is necessary to achieve a specific purpose.[/font]
       #Post#: 1758--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
       By: Deborah Date: May 5, 2015, 4:22 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=A Trusting Deist link=topic=182.msg1755#msg1755
       date=1430858397]
       For my part I understand the emphasis of your OP Poppy.
       But can the two forms of 'tongues' be separated?
       For instance does anyone pray privately in tongues who has not
       received what is called the Baptism in the Holy Spirit in the
       form promoted with the speaking in tongues as an indispensable
       part?
       And do those who have fallen for the counterfeit version in
       meetings pray privately as per the genuine version?
       IMO the 'must empty your minds' promotion of Tongues via the
       Baptism in the Holy Spirit is far too dangerous a practice to
       not give the danger careful consideration even if only talking
       about private prayer in tongues.
       [/quote]
       When I became a Christian in the 1970s, the charismatic movement
       as I then encountered it was nothing like the kind of meeting
       generally portrayed in such videos. No rolling around on the
       floor or grunting then!
       At that time I didn't come up against anyone who taught that
       praying in tongues was compulsory. In fact, it was after reading
       a book that assured me that baptism in the Spirit might not be
       associated with any manifestations at all that I received the
       gift of tongues.
       Now.. I have never prayed in tongues in public, so the issue of
       interpretation has not arisen. I use it in private. Recently, I
       have most often prayed in tongues while driving my car. It's no
       more distracting than listening to the radio.
       My mind is not involved in the production of  tongue, so there
       is no need for me to 'empty' it.
       [quote author=Piper link=topic=182.msg1754#msg1754
       date=1430858077]
       such prayer must exist as a gift, although I have yet to
       understand the benefit of uttering seeming words that I can not
       understand, and doing so makes me uneasy...
       
       However, if one is spiritually soothed or encouraged by praying
       in tongues, it would seem beneficial.  But, can one find
       direction in doing so?  If God responds to words not understood,
       how would His response be recognized as a response?
       (I'm probably overthinking things . . .)
       [/font][/size]
       [/quote]
       I find have always found prayer very difficult, simply because I
       am a person who finds 'making conversation' very difficult - and
       it's no easier when talking to God! Praying in tongues helps to
       overcome this barrier and has given me more confidence.
       #Post#: 1759--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
       By: Poppy Date: May 5, 2015, 4:31 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]I KNOW I could not be in such a meeting.  All warning
       bells sound loudly; I would  flee, seeking space and clean
       air.[/quote]  me too Piper.
       [quote=Deborah]My mind is not involved in the production of
       tongue, so there is no need for me to 'empty' it. [/quote]
       I have never been taught to empty my mind in order to pray in
       tongues and that the emptying of ones mind can be a dangerous
       thing so I would be very suspicious of anyone that suggested it
       particularly in Christian circles.
       [quote-Deborah]I find have always found prayer very difficult,
       simply because I am a person who finds 'making conversation'
       very difficult - and it's no easier when talking to God! Praying
       in tongues helps to overcome this barrier and has given me more
       confidence.
       [/quote]
       This is similar to my own experience.
       #Post#: 1760--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
       By: Poppy Date: May 5, 2015, 4:34 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       This is what Paul says about tongues.
       For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but
       to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by
       the Spirit.  1 Corinthians 14:2
       I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 1
       Corinthians 14:18
       #Post#: 1761--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
       By: Piper Date: May 5, 2015, 4:40 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [font=trebuchet ms]Did Jesus pray in tongues?  Or was it
       strictly a gift imparted after He ascended?[/font]
       #Post#: 1762--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
       By: Poppy Date: May 5, 2015, 4:40 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       There are different manifestations of speaking or praying in
       tongues.
       One can be led by the Spirit to pray out loud in a meeting for a
       specific reason and there will be an interpretation either by
       the one who spoke or by another.
       Then there are the groaning intercessory prayers in the spirit
       as God lays something on our hearts.
       There is the type of tongues which is the speaking in a real
       language that one hasn't learned for those who are there to
       hear.
       And then there is the use of tongues in our personal prayer time
       for our own edification.  Which is what my OP is about.
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