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#Post#: 1717--------------------------------------------------
Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
By: Helen Date: May 4, 2015, 1:02 pm
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Mike I watched all three video's. Even though I have been a
tongue talker like John, since 1968 I would not have taken part
in the first video. Thats why I was not in favour of the "
Toronto Blessing" type of meetings.But I have been , and I am
sure John has too, been in many a "holy roller"( so named
)meetings...where the River of Life was flowing and God was
moving. I would say in the first video the pastor was moving
the flock, rather than God moving His flock. Confusion is never
God's way.
I liked the last video...I have heard of that done before. Once
it was written in Readers Digest about 15 yrs ago.
There is hope for us who are getting older and the memory is not
so good...we can just forget the front part of the brain..and
use the anointed back part!! :D ;D
I agree with what John said. What God has given to us, we should
be a good steward of.
When God does not show me how to pray for a person...I can turn
off the front brain and use HIS wisdom..back brain. :)
BTW Mike...stop the habit of saying " I am a this, or that"..ie
a Deist. You know better than that Mike. You who have come
against divisions and denominations so hard...
'You' are NOT a Deist...first and foremost you are a son of your
Father. You are a blood washed forgiven child of God, walking as
we all are toward Home...this is not your Home...
Forget the divisions, you really, really don't believe in
them...I have seen your heart, I know your love for God and
desire to be all that He wants us to be. We don't get there by
putting ourselves in boxes. Jump out now, before you start
believing yourself!! :D
Just saying...love you...H
#Post#: 1722--------------------------------------------------
Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
By: A nonny mouse Date: May 4, 2015, 5:49 pm
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Helen, I'm sorry to disappoint but I can no longer align with
any of the post or pre Reformation sects, cults, denominations,
movements, call it what you will, that purport to be the
'church', or part thereof.
I'm left with nothing but my trust in a God who created the
universe to run according to what we call 'the Laws of Nature',
and who does not intervene to suspend or reverse those laws
except perhaps in exceptional instances which would be in accord
with his sovereign choice, and which are not for man to comment
or opine.
IMO everything that befalls us, be it good or bad will be of
natural cause or coincidence and without 'automatic' divine
remedy until God might bring this age to an end.
IMO again, everything written that describes God's will and
intent in more detail has been from the imagination of man,
who's propensity from the beginning has been to 'create God in
man's own image'; some of which may have got close to the truth
and the remainder will have been 'off target'.
I only align with Deism as a convenient way of describing where
I'm at.
I add the incarnation of Christ as being God's one and only
means of revealing his nature of 'Love' by the indwelling of
Christ in man's heart.
#Post#: 1724--------------------------------------------------
Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
By: Kerry Date: May 4, 2015, 8:07 pm
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[quote author=A Trusting Deist link=topic=182.msg1710#msg1710
date=1430725192]
The second video majors upon "How satan stops Christians from
receiving the prayer language".
However there is the very valid suggestion that there might be a
genuine 'Christian' case of 'Praying in Tongues', and a parallel
satanic counterfeit.
In which case it would serve satan better to install the
counterfeit in gullible 'sign seeking' Christians, and then rely
on those of his thus deluded disciples to defend it as per the
second video.[/quote]
A man said in one of those videos, I think it was the second,
that there are no known cases of non-Christians speaking in
tongues. What a bunch of bunk. Of course there are. Shamans
do it, Hindu swamis do it, Voodoo people down in Haiti do it.
(Up in Boston, even "beans" do it.) It's not a sign that
someone has the Holy Spirit. It is a sign that something is
happening, that's for sure, and something unusual too.
So is it from God, the Devil, or can the human mind by itself do
it? I'd say all three are possible; and it would depend who
laid hands on you what kind you got.
Of course, then there are the usual faking of it. Was it the
first video that had the children? I noticed two of them
raising their heads from time to time and looking around. "Am I
doing this right? Will the adults be impressed?" Then they
went back to the drama.
That reminded me of something that happened to my sister once.
She was visiting a church and the minister asked people if they
wanted to receive the gift of tongues if they didn't have it
already. My sister doesn't speak in tongues and also didn't
feel "moved" to want to. She stayed in her seat. While the
drama went on, she struck up a conversation with the woman next
to her. That woman asked her if she already spoke in tongues,
and my sister gave her an honest answer, "No, and I don't think
every Christians needs to." The woman then admitted that she
didn't really speak in tongues herself. She faked it because
other people in the church might think something was wrong with
her if she didn't.
I was at a Pentecostal meeting once -- a church conference in
fact -- where several ministers were present. I found out later
that the man sitting next to me was a minister. At any rate,
the event was rather mild with only two people speaking in
tongues; but one was completely disgraceful. A woman fell down,
some might say it was being "slain by the Spirit," but it
looked to me as if she was in the middle of having sex with an
invisible man. I pointed at her and asked the minister, "Would
you call that decent and orderly?" He said, "What do you
mean? Why do you ask that?" I said, "Paul said all things
should be done decently and in order, and that doesn't look
decent or orderly to me. Does it to you?"
He was a nice fellow. Although a minister in that
denomination, he admitted to me it didn't look right. He had
reservations about his own church, it turned out; and he was
staying in it, hoping to do good. I can't judge the man; but I
wonder if maybe he could have done more good by saying, "This is
so much bunk, and I'm leaving." I wondered if maybe he stayed
in his church so he still had a job. I don't know. It could go
either way. I liked him though. I tend to think he had good
motives for staying and pretending all the speaking in tongues
and other stuff was was real; but I don't know if he was right
to stay.
At the same meeting a man I knew casually went up to the altar
for another reason. He had people pray over him; and then he
gave his testimony of how he kept falling into sin and kept
coming back to being forgiven. He was crying about this. He
didn't look like someone who had been forgiven to me. But
there it was -- he was trapped by this cycle of sinning and then
coming back to his church to get his "fix" of religion. The
more he sinned, the more he felt he needed their prayers. It
looked like someone addicted to drugs to me.
That fellow used to visit me and we'd discuss the Bible. The
last time he visited me, he said he had gone to one of the
pastors -- the then youth pastor who is now "the" pastor" -- who
told him not to read the Old Testament since it wasn't important
and would confuse him. My talking about the Old Testament
would also confuse him. Wasn't that a fascinating thing for a
minister to tell someone?
-------------------
A note about the third video. I live close to Gettysburg, and
I attended the University of Pennsylvania. I was astounded by
the bold claim in the title of the video, "Speaking in Tongues
Medical Study proves Holy Spirit praying." That is a
bald-faced lie. If you listen to what Dr. Newburg, who did
the study, says in the video, you can see it's a lie. It
is also a lie about the pastor, Reverend Stolzfus, in the video
who says he's not interested in trying to prove things to
science. Yet this "Reverend Keith Barr" came along and took
what the scientist and the other minister said, and lies about
it, saying it proves something. For shame! I can understand
both what Dr. Newburg and Reverend Stolzfus are saying and
continue to think of them both as honorable men; but the
"Reverend" Barr should be whipped for his outright lies.
#Post#: 1729--------------------------------------------------
Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
By: Amadeus Date: May 4, 2015, 10:10 pm
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[font=courier]Probably some people have arguments against
anything that is really "good" (of God), but that doesn't make
those things evil anymore than it makes God evil.
I cannot convince anyone of any portion of the truth that I do
have. Only God can do that and He cannot (because He cannot
change His Word) do that unless the person is open to truth.
Comes back to Pilate's question: "What is truth?" Jesus answered
that question in John 14:6 if we can understand his answer.
Jesus is Truth, but what is Jesus?
Speaking in an unknown tongue is speaking something that is
unknown to a listener. Jesus did that all of the time according
to what I read in scripture.
"Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see
not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By
hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye
shall see, and shall not perceive:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull
of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time
they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and
should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and
I should heal them." Matt 13:13-15
[/font]
#Post#: 1731--------------------------------------------------
Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
By: Kerry Date: May 4, 2015, 11:07 pm
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I found an article that shows parallels between the Pentecostal
and voodoo experiences. Some of the things I've seen of
alleged Christian speaking in tongues didn't seem real to me.
It didn't sound like a real language to me to begin with; and
when people fall down and twitch, I have to wonder.
HTML http://openanthcoop.ning.com/profiles/blogs/possession-in-haitian-voodoo
In both cultures trembling and convulsions can be seen as well
as inarticulate vocalizations. In Haitian voodoo these body
movements and vocalizations may conform to the rhythm of the
music. These convulsive motions and glossolalia are seen in the
initial stages of possession. Alfred Metraux writes, “People who
are used to possession pass quickly through the whole range of
nervous symptoms. They quake, stagger, make a few mechanical
movements, and then, suddenly – there they are: in full trance”
(1959: 121). The greater more
terrible lwa are more violent in their possession whereas the
gentler ones are softer. The inexperienced one being possessed
will also behave more wildly. Metraux writes, “His chaotic leaps
and gestures are like the bucking of a wild horse, who feels the
weight of a rider on his back” (1959: 122). During the process
of possession the body is polarized between the head, where the
lwa enter, and the feet, legs, and torso,
which connect the possessed with the group and the earth (Locke
1985: 13). Locke and Kelly write, “Phenomenologically, the sense
of embodiment changes: the legs become heavy and may be rooted
to the
ground while the rest of the body may seem to expand, contract
or dismember” (1985: 13).
Vocalizations are also heard in Haitian voodoo possession.
Lowenthal writes, “When a lwa first enters an individual there
usually follows a brief period of inarticulate vocalization,
including humming and yelping, accompanied by what is apparently
uncontrolled gesticulation and body movement” (1978: 406).
#Post#: 1732--------------------------------------------------
Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
By: Kerry Date: May 4, 2015, 11:41 pm
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Is there a sign each believer can use to verify he is living
properly aligned with the Will of God? There is, and it is not
the speaking in tongues.
1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love
of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to
us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God,
and God in him.
The person who speaks in tongues can rest easy if he also sees
the Love of God expressed in his life; but the person who speaks
in tongues and does not see that Love of God being expressed
should worry.
1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of
angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or
a tinkling cymbal.
I also do not think people who don't speak in tongues should
fret and worry and wonder if perhaps they don't have the Holy
Spirit. We should use the gifts God has given us and not fret
or envy over what we don't have. If we use the ones we do have,
perhaps God will give us more; but I don't think we should
demand anything from God to prove something to ourselves or to
others.
#Post#: 1735--------------------------------------------------
Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
By: Heartsong Date: May 5, 2015, 8:54 am
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Shocking footage of one of the worst "invasions" of false
spirits that the church has ever seen. Proof that she has been
invaded by counterfeit spirits on a worldwide scale. This is
Part One of a documentary tracing this massive invasion - and
showing the terrible impact it has had.
Leaders and movements involved:
prophetic, apostolic, todd bentley, lakeland revival, rick
joyner, morningstar, toronto blessing, new mystics, john
crowder, ihop, mike bickle, patricia king, false revival, the
river, bob jones, john paul jackson, sid roth, chuck pierce,
bill johnson, randy clark, peter wagner, dutch sheets,
pentecostal, charismatic.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBpw2oQrvMM
SHOCKING DOCUMENTARY 2- False spirits invade the church -
KUNDALINI WARNING - Andrew Strom -Part 2
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCcGaTRwG_4
SHOCKING DOCUMENTARY 3- False spirits invade the church -
KUNDALINI WARNING - Andrew Strom -Part 3
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWeUNoR30_0
#Post#: 1736--------------------------------------------------
Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
By: Poppy Date: May 5, 2015, 9:29 am
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Whilst so much of the Church attributes one of the blessed and
precious Gifts of the Holy Spirit to Satan no wonder it is
totally ineffective. And I should think this really grieves the
Spirit.
#Post#: 1739--------------------------------------------------
Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
By: A nonny mouse Date: May 5, 2015, 10:16 am
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Well done Cathy, you've sacrificed popularity for the truth.
#Post#: 1740--------------------------------------------------
Re: The importance of praying in other tongues.
By: Heartsong Date: May 5, 2015, 10:41 am
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[quote author=A Trusting Deist link=topic=182.msg1739#msg1739
date=1430838972]
Well done Cathy, you've sacrificed popularity for the truth.
[/quote]
I was brought up in these kinds of churches so I'm very familiar
with this. I didn't realize at the time what this was all about
but I knew something was very wrong with it. It was hard for me
to see these things taking place in a church and claiming that
it was the holy spirit. I especially was concerned for children
in the church who were forced to see these things without regard
to how it affected them. I hope these churches will wake up and
realize that this is not the holy spirit but a very unholy
spirit.
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