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#Post#: 1695--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is faith a gift from God or something we summon up ourselves
?
By: Heartsong Date: May 3, 2015, 9:24 am
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=180.msg1688#msg1688
date=1430625320]
Our faith is not our own. It was given to us. By grace!
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that
not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[/quote]
This is something that I hadn't really understood before.
Although I believed that faith was a gift, when I read this
scripture the focus was always on grace and the understanding of
being saved by grace through faith, faith in that saving grace.
Yet now I see that we are saved through faith by grace and that
this faith is not of ourselves but it is a gift of God.
The Aramaic Bible makes it even more clear.
Eph. 2:8 For it is by his grace that we have been saved through
faith, and this faith was not from you, but it is the gift of
God,
#Post#: 1696--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is faith a gift from God or something we summon up ourselves
?
By: Piper Date: May 3, 2015, 11:50 am
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[font=trebuchet ms]If faith is a gift from God, and it is
impossible to please God without it, does this mean some never
receive the gift (of faith), and therefore will never please
God?
Is faith a gift we must request, or is it given freely by God
upon His observance of what lies within our hearts? Certainly,
if we have faith, even a tiny mustard seed, we may seek (more)
and/or we may ask to be increased.
It seems one can plant, another waters, but any increase is
given by God. Therefore, we might share the Word, either by use
of words or by example, which would mean we may deliver a
mustard seed to others, and that delivering is important because
if the mustard seed is not planted, how shall it grow? Perhaps
that same seed may be planted by God, Himself, (through
observance of creation, for example), but to hear of Christ and
to understand is great good news, for He is the sure foundation
and it is written that no other foundation may be laid. When we
share Christ, we share something gold, helping people to
understand the nature of the god they are seeking, for Jesus is
His exact representation and the radiance of His glory. So, the
way I see it, while a man may have saving faith in God, we are
negligent to not share Christ, because the foundation and the
fulness of faith rests in Christ Jesus.
These verses from Romans 10, come to mind:[/font]
[quote][font=arial]14But how are men to call upon him in whom
they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of
whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a
preacher?
15And how can men preach unless they are sent? As it is written,
"How beautiful are the feet of those who preach good
news!"[/font][/quote]
[font=trebuchet ms]
To withhold Christ from the world is to withhold the bread of
life and to leave the world spiritually starving. We should
never look lightly upon starvation.[/font]
#Post#: 1699--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is faith a gift from God or something we summon up ourselves
?
By: Kerry Date: May 3, 2015, 3:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Piper link=topic=180.msg1696#msg1696
date=1430671811]
If faith is a gift from God, and it is impossible to please God
without it, does this mean some never receive the gift (of
faith), and therefore will never please God? [/quote]All have
received it and I'd say more than once. I think they all
received it when entering this world, for Jesus gave them Light
then. The Gospel also has been preached to every living
creature under Heaven, and again I'd say more than once. If
someone has no faith, I'd say it's because he didn't use what
was he was given, and faith without works dies and then is dead.
And too, remember that every rejection of the Gospel hardens
the heart. The heart can become so hard that it would not
receive faith no matter how many times it was given.
[quote]Is faith a gift we must request, or is it given freely by
God upon His observance of what lies within our hearts?
[/quote]I think God deals with each individual as needed. We
couldn't ask for more faith if we had none to begin with.
Asking for more faith if the purposes of the heart are not
loving is a vain thing; but the person with a loving heart who
craves a better world and who wonders if there is a God out
there who can help is really praying for more faith without
knowing it.
I would say the best way to obtain more faith is by doing good
works when we see something we can do that would make the world
a better place, using what we already have. This is accepting
our place in the world as between God and the world and being
willing to allow the Goodness of God flow through us from Heaven
into and over the earth. Self becomes less important as the
mind is looking outwards and considering what is good for others
-- one becomes more like an empty tube as the false sense of
self begins to disappear -- like the tubes the oil in an oil
lamp has. That person can perceive or feel that things are
happening. It is possible to make the world a better place.
The Jews have a saying, "The reward for doing a good deed is a
chance to do another."
[quote]Certainly, if we have faith, even a tiny mustard seed, we
may seek (more) and/or we may ask to be increased.[/quote]
And always remembering that:
James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth
it not, to him it is sin.
The person who "knows to do good" has also received some the
Wisdom of Heaven. Faith, Charity and Wisdom exist together.
If we have one, the other two want to appear in equal measure.
If we stifle one, the other two will begin to fade away as the
three seek an equilibrium.
The fact that we can "spot" the chance to do a good deed should
inspire more faith in us. Where does the urge to want to be
helpful come from in people? Where does the mind that informs
us how to be helpful come from? When we then act and good
things happen, that makes us happy and it also tells us we can
make a difference by allowing things to flow naturally without
calculating, "Is this good for me personally."
There is nothing more depressing than to sit and think about
self. It's guaranteed to depress people almost all the time.
The world is bad enough as it is without our imagining the worst
that can happen to us since that makes us feel powerless and
stupid. We will feel as if we are like ping pong balls being
bounced around unmercifully.
Some thinking about self is necessary of course. A husband and
father should not give away all his money to the poor on the
streets thinking he's being unselfish. He has a wife and
children too. What is the point of him helping the poor on the
streets if his actions drive his own family onto the streets?
Thus he risks endangering them if he allows himself to fall
too low that he can't take care of them too.
[quote]It seems one can plant, another waters, but any increase
is given by God. Therefore, we might share the Word, either by
use of words or by example, which would mean we may deliver a
mustard seed to others, and that delivering is important because
if the mustard seed is not planted, how shall it grow? Perhaps
that same seed may be planted by God, Himself, (through
observance of creation, for example), but to hear of Christ and
to understand is great good news, for He is the sure foundation
and it is written that no other foundation may be laid. When we
share Christ, we share something gold, helping people to
understand the nature of the god they are seeking, for Jesus is
His exact representation and the radiance of His glory. So, the
way I see it, while a man may have saving faith in God, we are
negligent to not share Christ, because the foundation and the
fulness of faith rests in Christ Jesus.[/quote]There are many
ways the world can be made a better place, aren't there? It's
amazing when you think about it, how different people take on
different roles and even think in different ways, and God can
be acting in all that diversity.
Paul knew about this, I think, when he told the people "as
certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his
offspring." Someone who read what that poet wrote had already
received a little faith from God; and here was Paul then telling
them more, giving them more. Paul even says they were on the
right track with their inscription, "To the unknown God." And
there Paul was, ready to impart more faith and knowledge to
them.
These verses from Romans 10, come to mind:
To withhold Christ from the world is to withhold the bread of
life and to leave the world spiritually starving. We should
never look lightly upon starvation.
Yes, "freely ye have received, freely give." To receive faith
from God and then not to use it might be called spiritual
constipation. Trying to bottle things up for the benefit of
self backs us up like a stopped up drain. If God did want to
give us more, we couldn't receive it. It turns out that
spiritually what is good for "others" is also what is good for
"me." Thinking we can eat all the bread while letting others
starve is a good way to find ourselves starving someday.
This may sound insane or impossible to some people; but I seldom
worry about myself spiritually anymore. I don't worry about my
own salvation or going to hell. I just don't. By the grace of
God, I don't. I could lose my salvation and go to hell, yes, I
know that -- but why worry about my fate? Thinking more about
others and less about myself is the best way to avoid coming to
ruin. Doing what I know is both loving and right in the here
and now is what counts. I have my problems; but if I am doing
now what I know is both loving and right, my conscience is clear
even if the world seems to be collapsing at times. I am also
convinced all will be well in the end if I continue along that
same path but that I could come to ruin if I do not.
For me the worst feeling is being in a bad situation where I
know I helped make it bad and nothing to make it better. I
feel miserable -- and I also feel it's right that I be
miserable. For my own sanity -- out of pure "self-interest" --
I need to do something to try to make things better -- and the
irony is that means not taking "self" so seriously.
#Post#: 1700--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is faith a gift from God or something we summon up ourselves
?
By: Kerry Date: May 3, 2015, 3:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Heartsong link=topic=180.msg1695#msg1695
date=1430663063]
This is something that I hadn't really understood before.
Although I believed that faith was a gift, when I read this
scripture the focus was always on grace and the understanding of
being saved by grace through faith, faith in that saving grace.
Yet now I see that we are saved through faith by grace and that
this faith is not of ourselves but it is a gift of God.
The Aramaic Bible makes it even more clear.
Eph. 2:8 For it is by his grace that we have been saved through
faith, and this faith was not from you, but it is the gift of
God,
[/quote]You were ahead of me on that then. For years, it never
occurred to me that faith could be a gift from God. I had to
have someone bring up the subject before I considered that
maybe I had what I now consider a mistaken view. That passage
from Paul confounded me.
When something doesn't make sense to us, I think checking out
various translations often helps; and the Aramaic is interesting
since sometimes the Greek is ambiguous or meanings of words may
be in doubt. While no translation is infallible, the early
Aramaic can tell us a lot about how the early Christians
thought.
#Post#: 1702--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is faith a gift from God or something we summon up ourselves
?
By: Heartsong Date: May 3, 2015, 4:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Kerry link=topic=180.msg1700#msg1700
date=1430685690]
You were ahead of me on that then. For years, it never
occurred to me that faith could be a gift from God. I had to
have someone bring up the subject before I considered that
maybe I had what I now consider a mistaken view. That passage
from Paul confounded me.
When something doesn't make sense to us, I think checking out
various translations often helps; and the Aramaic is interesting
since sometimes the Greek is ambiguous or meanings of words may
be in doubt. While no translation is infallible, the early
Aramaic can tell us a lot about how the early Christians
thought.
[/quote]
I didn't understand before that faith could be a gift from God
from that scripture, Ephesians 2:8. I had understand before from
that scripture that grace was the gift referred to and not
faith.
Yes I like the way the Aramaic has some scriptures, makes it
more clear.
#Post#: 1703--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is faith a gift from God or something we summon up ourselves
?
By: Piper Date: May 3, 2015, 4:27 pm
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[font=trebuchet ms]Thanks, Kerry, for your post. Was thinking
of my dad, who repeatedly tells me how "faith is easy for some
people, but not for everyone" (including, I assume, himself).
Seeing as how our adventures into the wilds when I was a child
was a big part of the birth of my faith, I've never understood
why faith is so hard for him. It does seem to come easier for
some people than others.[/font]
#Post#: 1704--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is faith a gift from God or something we summon up ourselves
?
By: Piper Date: May 3, 2015, 4:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[font=trebuchet ms]Yes, living in the "now" is best. Not always
easy to do, and we should be prepared for certain possible
circumstance to the extent that we can, but . . . We do what
we're able, and, in faith, trust God to sort out the
rest.[/font]
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