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#Post#: 149--------------------------------------------------
overcome verus understood {john one:5}
By: Alfie Date: November 30, 2014, 9:02 pm
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5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not
overcome[a] it
*** [a] understood
overcome ; has at its agenda the suggestion that that this is
about Satan and the angels that followed him
understood ; may be saying more
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through
him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has
been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all
mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness
has not overcome[a] it
to look at the issue of overcome vs. understood {verse 5} ; we
have to look at what came before it {verses 1-4}
in the beginning --- no Satan to overcome
all things made by him --- talking of Jesus here
light; life; mankind --- no overcoming here either
but now we have darkness ; "where?"
it would seem to be everywhere until :
the light shines in the darkness
when the light shines in the darkness
there is a separation between light and darkness
inside the area of the light is where mankind originates
inside the darkness is where angels originate
darkness is the originating place of both good and bad angels
do good angels try and overcome?
the issue here is that which originates in the light
and that is mankind
it is both the good and bad angels who don't understand --- even
the good angels look at mankind and marvel
--- not marvel at us ; but marvel at
what God is doing with us
Satan being an angel originated in darkness like all angels
was not impressed with the story of man enough to let the story
play out
he fell into the world that didn't impress him ; the world of
mankind
Satan and his followers fell to earth
and with them darkness entered the world of light
good angels didn't understand {the story of mankind} and watch
as Jesus played out the story
bad angels didn't understand { the story of mankind} and fell to
earth; trying to change the story
#Post#: 165--------------------------------------------------
Re: overcome verus understood {john one:5}
By: Helen Date: December 1, 2014, 8:14 pm
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.. not sure that I understand the 'everything coming out of
darkness' including angels.
God is life and light, and often shrouded Himself in darkness
He made darkness his secret place; His pavilion round about Him
were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.
Are you a believer that Satan was once one of God's Archangels
angels and then fell, ...or that he was 'made' the Adversary and
The Liar from the beginning ?
#Post#: 173--------------------------------------------------
Re: overcome verus understood {john one:5}
By: Alfie Date: December 2, 2014, 5:41 pm
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=17.msg165#msg165 date=1417486465]
.. not sure that I understand the 'everything coming out of
darkness' including angels.
God is life and light, and often shrouded Himself in darkness
He made darkness his secret place; His pavilion round about Him
were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.
Are you a believer that Satan was once one of God's Archangels
angels and then fell, ...or that he was 'made' the Adversary and
The Liar from the beginning ?
[/quote]
THIS IS MY THOUGHT :
IN THE BEGINNING WAS GOD
{GOD}
AND GOD CREATED DARKNESS
darkness darkness
AND IN THE DARKNESS
ANGELS WERE CREATED AND DWELL
angels
angels
FROM WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT
holy spirit --------------------holy spirit
A GLOBE OF WATER APPEARED
water
THE WATER WAS OPENED
WHEN LIGHT APPEARED
<--- light
A DRINK OFFERING
water became --- >
WAS POURED OUT
water * canopy
and
SLAIN ( separated )
water of the earth and ...
before the foundations of the world
land
from this land came the body of
Adam
from Adam came .....
Eve
timing:
1- we think of darkness as ABSENCE OF LIGHT
whereas in this scenario we see that
darkness existed first and the world of "light"
took up space separate from darkness
THUS;
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5 The light shines in the darkness,
what was created in darkness ? ANGELS
what was created in the light ? mankind {the body of
Adam}
that which was not UNDERSTOOD :
FIRST WE SHOULD SEE ; that understood is specific to whom it is
talking to ...... darkness THUS; and the darkness has not
[s]overcome[a][/s] UNDERSTOOD it
THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION IS : ANGELS HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD
...... MAN
SATAN FELL
WHEN AND WHY?
"A" STORY
IN THE BEGINNING WAS GOD
{GOD}
AND GOD CREATED DARKNESS
darkness darkness
AND IN THE DARKNESS
ANGELS WERE CREATED AND DWELL
angels
angels
ONE DAY; SATAN was called in to worship the image of God ,( the
soul of Adam)
Satan says no; "i was created first; he should worship me"
Satan falls to earth
a third of heaven ( darkness) follows
where ;
the image of God is added to .....
A DRINK OFFERING
water became --- >
WAS POURED OUT
water * canopy
and
SLAIN ( separated )
water of the earth and ...
before the foundations of the world
land
from this land came the [b]body of
Adam [/b]
AND THE STORY CONTINUES ( SEE BIBLE FOR MORE DETAILS ;D)
#Post#: 175--------------------------------------------------
Re: overcome verus understood {john one:5}
By: Ivor1 Date: December 3, 2014, 1:18 am
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Interesting take on Genesis and worth consideration
In the spirit dimension was light and dark are we know needed?
We need light as 3 dimensional creation for without it we don't
exist but I'm unsure that the spirit creatures have those needs
#Post#: 177--------------------------------------------------
Re: overcome verus understood {john one:5}
By: Alfie Date: December 3, 2014, 2:30 am
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[quote author=Ivor1 link=topic=17.msg175#msg175 date=1417591115]
Interesting take on Genesis and worth consideration
In the spirit dimension was light and dark are we know needed?
We need light as 3 dimensional creation for without it we don't
exist but I'm unsure that the spirit creatures have those needs
[/quote]
yes; right
people can't live completely underwater as a natural state ;
and yet with the flood
we see Satan still exists
thus; the
rules for existence for a spiritual creature must be different
many implications here {imo}
#Post#: 178--------------------------------------------------
Re: overcome verus understood {john one:5}
By: Deborah Date: December 3, 2014, 3:09 am
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I see it slightly differently:
When God created the universe, He did so by a process of
separation: light from darkness, earth from heaven, land from
sea (Genesis 1:4,7,9). At the end, He had created a world that
was orderly and ‘good’, as opposed to the chaos that had
preceded it (verse 2). But why did He begin with light and
darkness – especially when our sources of natural light, the sun
and stars, are not mentioned until day four? John tells us that
“God is light; in Him there is no darkness at all.” (I John 1:5)
“The dominion of darkness” (Colossians 1:13), on the other hand,
is that which is under the rule of Satan. Perhaps, then, there
is a hint that ‘evil’ is an essential part of the fabric of the
universe (see Isaiah 45:7); yet at the very beginning of
creation it was separated from the ‘good’.
For the continued well-being of the world, they should have
remained separate – but they did not. The dividing line ran even
through the Garden of Eden, in the form of a choice between two
trees: one representing life and the other representing
knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:9,17). It was through the
eating of the fruit of this latter tree, at Satan’s instigation,
that evil contaminated the human race and the goodness of
creation was corrupted.
#Post#: 189--------------------------------------------------
Re: overcome verus understood {john one:5}
By: Ivor1 Date: December 4, 2014, 1:57 am
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no argument from me on that assessment.. I like the line The
dividing line ran even through the Garden of Eden, in the form
of a choice between two trees
#Post#: 246--------------------------------------------------
Re: overcome verus understood {john one:5}
By: Ezra Date: December 6, 2014, 5:50 pm
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Al,
It is generally a good idea to try and grasp the meaning of the
English word by going back to the Greek (or Hebrew) to determine
the range of meanings and what is applicable in the context of
the verse.
In the KJV, the word is "comprehended" but could also be
"apprehended" in John 1:5. "The darkness apprehended it not".
That is a translation of katalambano, "which properly signifies
to lay hold of" (Vine) and is Strong's 2638 (KJV) where it is
defined as to take eagerly, to seize, to possess, to apprehend,
to comprehend, to perceive, or to overtake. ("overcome" is not
really a correct translation).
So now we have to determine what applies in the context of the
battle between Light (God) and Darkness (Satan). "Apprehend"
means to arrest, capture or seize. It also means to understand,
but in this context that would not be applicable. "Comprehend"
means either to understand or to grasp.
So now we have to look at the entire Bible narrative with a
focus on the enmity of Satan against God and against men. God
is Light (1 Jn 1:5) and Satan is "the power of darkness" (Lk
22:53). Ever since Satan rebelled against God and caused the
Fall of mankind, he has been working tirelessly to quench the
Light of the Gospel and the Light of Christ Himself, so that
human beings would be eternally damned. He has done this by
attacking God's Word, attacking God's people, and provoking
people to sin and go into idolatry. When the tower of Babel was
erected, it was a work of Satan to make the whole world
idolatrous (and so it is today). He has also been trying to
ensure that Messiah -- the Light to lighten the Gentiles, and
the glory of thy people Israel (Lk 2:32) -- would be killed
before His time. Thus we have the slaughter of the innocents by
king Herod and the flight of Christ into Egypt (Mt 2:13-18).
So what Darkness has been trying to do is to "arrest, capture or
seize" (apprehend) Light by attacking the Messiah and His
Gospel. But because Christ is God, that is impossible for
Darkness, and indeed Darkness was defeated at the Cross (Heb
2:14,15).
#Post#: 250--------------------------------------------------
Re: overcome verus understood {john one:5}
By: Helen Date: December 6, 2014, 6:46 pm
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Amen Deborah...a good post :)
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