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#Post#: 1451--------------------------------------------------
Grace be there for us
By: Colin Feener Date: April 24, 2015, 11:58 pm
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Way back there the Lord taught me about grace. I stopped
because of the comments made back then.
What is grace , this amazing grace. Paul said we are under
grace and not the law. And I even heard we are saved by grace.
Well this is what the Lord taught me. When Jesus was nailed to
the cross and just before his death he said this. Forgive them
father, they know not what they do. When we partake of the
scriptures and we do the deeds of the flesh, living by the
letter. That is we are under the Law and the Law is given to
sinners and yes we are sinners when we live by the law because
the law is that which is against God. People who live by the law
or the literal understanding of the scriptures not living by the
Spirit. That which prophets nothing also does again kill our
Lord and to live by the law we again partake of the crusifixion
of Jesus and that is what the Lord hated. Yet the4 church is
still there and we do not stand accused. Its because of that.
Jesus asked his father to forgive us because we know not what
we are doing and then we are under grace instead of the law and
we need the law and grace to move on up to the spirit and then
we have overcome the law. Without grace we would be condemed
right from the start and unable to attain the faith that makes
us Children of God.
#Post#: 1453--------------------------------------------------
Re: Grace be there for us
By: Poppy Date: April 25, 2015, 6:10 am
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Grace is the unmerited favour of God. This lovely song has been
on my mind lately so I thought I'd share it.
HTML https://youtu.be/kdugliaCXUk
#Post#: 1458--------------------------------------------------
Re: Grace be there for us
By: Helen Date: April 25, 2015, 8:38 am
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Colin, agree totally with your OP. Grace has been brought down
to a wishy washy " unmerited favour"
Yet as you say it has so much more depth. Also agree that many
do not fully understand the grace to us via the cross and
sacrifice.
If after being declared righteous we return ( like a dog to
vomit) back to rules, regulations and laws..we make the cross of
Christ of no effect.
I like what Paul says :- 2 Cor 6 " We then, as workers together
with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God
in vain.
2(For He saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in
the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, NOW is the
accepted time; behold, NOW is the day of salvation.)"
He did His part, now we do our part, :-"Jesus answered and said
unto them, This is the work of God, that ye BELIEVE on Him whom
he hath sent."
Believe, and stay believing in the great Grace which is also to
us- His ability, "in us" to do what we can't do. Indeed as the
song goes -"Hallelujah it is all by grace"
Drawn by grace, saved by grace, kept by grace, strengthened by
grace, led by grace, live by grace and die by grace. 'Tis indeed
AMAZING GRACE...yet nothing wishy washy...we are save(the walk
and the end result) by grace through faith.
Co workers, He did His part, we lean into grace every moment
from here on out, until the end.
Blessings....H
#Post#: 1461--------------------------------------------------
Re: Grace be there for us
By: Poppy Date: April 25, 2015, 9:44 am
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[quote]Grace has been brought down to a wishy washy " unmerited
favour"[/quote]
I don't believe that God's 'unmerited favour' in all its many
and wonderful facets is at all wishy-washy.
#Post#: 1466--------------------------------------------------
Re: Grace be there for us
By: Piper Date: April 25, 2015, 11:23 am
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[font=trebuchet ms]Grace is first and foremost the gift of the
Spirit who justifies and sanctifies us. (Justification delivers
us from 'unrighteousness' to 'sonship' / sanctification is
ongoing grace that makes us 'holy') Grace also includes the
gifts of the Spirit that enable us to participate in God's work
and aid the salvation of others.
Grace is given to us by God, though we never earned it. Christ
gives to us His own life, fills us with the Holy Spirit, healing
us of sin and sanctifying us (making us holy). Grace is
supernatural, depending on God's unwarranted initiative; He
alone can reveal and give Himself. Grace surpasses the power of
human intellect and will.
When we are in God's "favor," we are under grace, and we receive
the free and undeserved help to respond to God's calling to
become children of God, adoptive sons, and partakers of the
divine nature and of eternal life.
Grace is participation in the life of God, introducing us into
the intimacy of Trinitarian life ( the intimate relationship of
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). Christ becomes Head of the Body.
As adopted sons we may call God "Father." We receive the life
of the Spirit, who breathes charity into each of God's children.
"Habitual grace" lives inside of us, working to help us live and
act in keeping with God's call. "Actual grace" refers to God's
interventions, from the beginning of conversion, continuing all
through the course of sanctification (the work of God that makes
us holy).
Grace includes the very beginning of our faith; our preparation
to receive grace is a work of grace in itself: God prepares us,
arousing and sustaining our collaboration in justification
through faith, sanctification through charity (we learn to "love
God" and "love our neighbor").
God's mercy is a grace which goes before us and follows after
us. God completes what He begins in us:[/font]
[quote][font=times new roman]Indeed we also work, but we are
only collaborating with God who works, for his mercy has gone
before us. It has gone before us so that we may be healed, and
follows us so that once healed, we may be given life; it goes
before us so that we may be called, and follows us so that we
may be glorified; it goes before us so that we may live
devoutly, and follows us so that we may always live with God:
for without him we can do nothing.[/font]
~St. Augustine[/quote]
[font=trebuchet ms]Grace belongs to the supernatural order and
escapes our experience. It can not be known, but by faith. We
can not rely on our feelings or on works we might do to conclude
we are justified and saved. (We work out our salvation "with
fear and trembling.) However, as the Lord told us, "Thus you
will know them by their fruits"-- if we habitually reflect on
God's blessings in our life and in the lives of the those before
us who have loved God, we can be guaranteed that grace is
working in us, increasing our faith and bringing our faith to
completion in Christ.
From Acts on the trial of St. Joan of Arc:[/font]
[quote][font=times new roman]A pleasing illustration of this
attitude is found in the reply of St. Joan of Arc to a question
posed as a trap by her ecclesiastical judges: "Asked if she
knew that she was in God's grace, she replied: 'If I am not, may
it please God to put me in it; if I am, may it please God to
keep me there.'"[/font][/quote]
[center]~ Above post adapted in its entirety from the Catechism
of the Catholic Church[/center]
#Post#: 1468--------------------------------------------------
Re: Grace be there for us
By: Poppy Date: April 25, 2015, 11:40 am
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How wonderful it is for us sinners who are so unworthy to
receive the unmerited favour of God. Totally undeserved,
totally unmerited. God looked upon us and loved us and by his
grace saved us from the consequences of our sin. We did nothing
to earn his love, we did nothing to earn his favour but
nevertheless he pours his grace on us and sets us free. Nothing
wish-washy in that. It's awesome.
#Post#: 1477--------------------------------------------------
Re: Grace be there for us
By: Helen Date: April 25, 2015, 3:02 pm
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I still contend that Grace HAS BEEN BROUGHT DOWN...in most of
Christendom from all that is IS, to a glib " unmerited favour."
No one is saying it does not include ' unmerited favour' it
does...but that is not ALL Grace is...As Paul shows us. And as
Colin was showing us in the opening post!!!
That was Colin's whole point. The DEPTH and reaching power of
Grace.
But as Colin said..not many understand when he speaks on the
deeper spiritual things.
I admit, sometimes I don't always understand all that Colin is
saying...but in this post he laid it out very clearly. He shows
as Paul preaches, we can fall from grace, make grace of non
effect etc etc
Not 'falling from Grace as in not saved anymore', but any
returning to self works (as Colin said 'any law') nullifies the
grace....
But...who am I....Colin can speak from himself..my reply was to
him, and he will understand what I meant about how 'they' are
watering down the depth of grace.
#Post#: 1479--------------------------------------------------
Re: Grace be there for us
By: Kerry Date: April 25, 2015, 3:18 pm
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[quote author=Poppy link=topic=162.msg1468#msg1468
date=1429980007]
How wonderful it is for us sinners who are so unworthy to
receive the unmerited favour of God. Totally undeserved,
totally unmerited. God looked upon us and loved us and by his
grace saved us from the consequences of our sin. We did nothing
to earn his love, we did nothing to earn his favour but
nevertheless he pours his grace on us and sets us free. Nothing
wish-washy in that. It's awesome.
[/quote]Do you think people can be saved if they do not repent
of their sins?
#Post#: 1509--------------------------------------------------
Re: Grace be there for us
By: Helen Date: April 26, 2015, 1:13 pm
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Hi Kerry you asked " Do you think people can be saved if they
don't repent of their sins."
I have left this and not answered, ( even though your question
was to Pat) as I didn't want to take Colin's thread off on a
side tangent. But both Colin and Pat have been on and off the
site , and not picked up on this thread, so I felt it safe in
jumping in here. And if Colin was to delete it thats fine too.
:)
I have to answer - We'd better be!! I know it is said, No
repentance, no forgiveness. But who of us , when we stand
before the Lord at the end, will have every sin accounted for?
Have every heart attitude perfect?
Not me!!! We do our best, but our best will never be enough for
His purity and perfection.
In Eph.4 it says- Unto every one of us is given grace...
And Titus...For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath
appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us (if Grace is only 'unmerited
favour' how does it teach us?) that, denying ungodliness and
worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly,
in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the
glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus
Christ; 14 Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from
all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous
of good works."
The great creator became our saviour..
In many ways I can see why the "Jesus Only" movement took of so
strongly back in the 70's Is there anything that is not Jesus
Christ? I see in the above HE IS GRACE...in the fact grace can
not be separated from Him. It is not "a something" it is Him.
Peace is not a something, it is Him... and so on.
( BTW I just had to correct two typos, I hate your rule of not
being able to get back into my post after some time elapses I
see so many mistakes after I go away and come back again. :-[ I
think I will start bugging you to go in and edit all my
mistakes!! LOL )
Yes we can 'have'/show joy, peace, love, yet it also is
Him..like the vine and the branches...it is all really Him.
Thats why I have always loved Watchman Nee's "Christ The Sum Of
ALL Spiritual Things."
Grace is indeed given to all men. They have received His grace,
just like a blank check...but many have not 'cashed it',
therefore do not benefit from it in this life. As Paul said- "
Receive not the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ in vain."
They've got it, it's given...that is why my answer has to be
YES.
* Note:- Colin please tell us if we are bothering your boards by
posting in them..and we will take our comments somewhere else
:D 8) ;D Thanks x
#Post#: 1512--------------------------------------------------
Re: Grace be there for us
By: Kerry Date: April 26, 2015, 2:55 pm
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[quote author=Helen link=topic=162.msg1509#msg1509
date=1430072030]
I have to answer - We'd better be!! I know it is said, No
repentance, no forgiveness. But who of us , when we stand
before the Lord at the end, will have every sin accounted for?
Have every heart attitude perfect?
Not me!!! We do our best, but our best will never be enough for
His purity and perfection.
[/quote]If we don't know something is a sin, we aren't held
accountable for it. That sort of sin is easily fixed. When we
do become aware of it, repent. If we die with sins of
ignorance remaining, we are not held accountable (unless we
were willfully ignorant).
I believe God does not zip someone off to Paradise immediately
after becoming a Christian because then the Spirit could not
reveal to him things he can change for the better. The Spirit
does not condemn us for such flaws but always shows us a better
way.
I do not think anyone can knowingly and willfully hang onto a
sin after the Spirit has shown him there is a better way of
doing things. Now some people may believe this or that is a
sin when it may not be -- sometimes what we believe are sins is
a trick of Satan meant to make people feel condemned. There are
some Christians who feel guilty it seems over things I don't
see a problem with -- I don't see them as sinning at all, but
they seem to think they are.
The Spirit reveals why something is a sin as well as a better
way of going about things. If we sin after receiving
enlightenment on a sin, there is no forgiveness for that sin.
How could there be? Nothing has changed since Ezekiel wrote
this:
Ezekiel 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his
righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for
his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness
that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and
right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his
transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he
shall not die.
Ezekiel is talking about the New Covenant -- about the new heart
and new Spirit.
31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have
transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why
will ye die, O house of Israel?
In the Old Testament, people often believed they could sin and
sacrificing animals would fix things. That made God angry.
What then of Christians who think Jesus' sacrifice means all
their sins are fixed? If people believe they can continue to
sin after the Holy Spirit has shown them how to avoid it and how
life would be better if they did. I believe Jesus came to set
us free of sins -- free -- so we are no longer slaves to them.
Most sins, I think, are the result of sin running the people.
People aren't in control of themselves -- they're like puppets
of sin, often without knowing it. When the Spirit tells a
Christian a better way of doing something, he understands truth
about that situation. He's in control or could be.
The key to this passage may be "the knowledge of the truth."
Do people who think they are struggling with this sin or that
have the truth about that sin yet? Is it actually a sin? Why
is it a sin?
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received
the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice
for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery
indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or
three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought
worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath
counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified,
an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
But our sins are so many, I don't expect them all to be fixed
before we die. Never mind all those sins we don't know about.
We are answerable though, I believe, for the areas in life we
know the truth about, know we were wrong in and then go on
wanting to be wrong in.
I'm not saying Saul went to hell or Ananias and Sapphira; but I
do say they knew what they doing and resisted the truth. They
will pay for their sins themselves. The blood of sheep or goats
would not fix Saul's willful disobedience and lying; and the
blood of Christ would not fix Ananias and Sapphira resisting the
Spirit and lying to God.
When the Spirit shows us truth and we can see clearly there is a
better way of going about something, we should thank God for
the opportunity to change for the better and thank Jesus for not
holding our past offenses committed in ignorance against us.
That is what I believe.
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