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#Post#: 1620--------------------------------------------------
Re: God's goodness ...
By: Kerry Date: April 29, 2015, 6:41 am
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[quote author=HereticMouse link=topic=160.msg1617#msg1617
date=1430305004]
Matt 8 refers to Is 53 after Jesus healed people:
16 When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought
to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all
the sick. 17 This was to fulfill what was spoken through the
prophet Isaiah:
“He took up our infirmities
and bore our diseases.”
Oh and look - Jesus healed all the sick there.
Mike HM
[/quote]I have already said there were times when Jesus healed
all who came to him, so what are you crowing about? Why not
try telling me something I don't know?
As for Matthew's quoting Isaiah? Matthew is a hard book to
understand. The citations of the Old Testament are extremely
hard. Take this:
Matthew 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it
might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet,
saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
What is the original text -- well, it's not about Jesus, that's
for sure.
Hosea 11:11 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and
called my son out of Egypt.
2 As they called them, so they went from them: they sacrificed
unto Baalim, and burned incense to graven images.
If we get too literal there, we may think Israel equals Jesus,
and Jesus sacrificed to Baalim and burned incense to graven
images.
Similarly the prophecy about Rachel weeping in Rama had also
already been fulfilled when the tribe of Benjamin was led into
captivity. Go figure then -- I can explain it, can you, how
Rachel could be called the mother of the Jews?
And truly problematical is this passage in Matthew:
23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it
might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be
called a Nazarene.
No such verse exists. Shall I go on? Or do you want to latch
onto things you think you understand while dismissing other
things?
#Post#: 1623--------------------------------------------------
Re: God's goodness ...
By: Kerry Date: April 29, 2015, 7:42 am
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Remember this tragic story from December last year? This
article about it is from christianpost.com
HTML http://www.christianpost.com/news/christian-woman-prayed-6-months-for-dead-husbands-resurrection-until-his-corpse-had-rotted-beyond-recognition-130568/:
A Christian woman from Canada who prayed with her children for
her dead husband's resurrection for six months after he died was
dealt a hard blow when she learned that he failed to rise and
his body had rotted beyond recognition inside a bedroom she
locked and left behind for Jesus.
According to the Hamilton Spectator, during the six months that
the woman, Kaling Wald, 50, kept the body of her husband, Peter
Wald, 52, locked in an upstairs bedroom of their home, she would
tell curious neighbors that he was "in God's hands now" whenever
they inquired about him.
Court documents revealed that Kaling Wald's husband died
"probably around March 20" in 2013. He suffered from diabetes
but refused to go to the hospital after his left foot became
infected, because he believed that God would heal him. The body
was only discovered after Wald and her family faced eviction for
not paying the mortgage on the home, according to Reuters.
When the sheriff came to evict the family on Sept. 17, 2013,
Peter Wald's belongings had been packed and ready to go.
"That was how strong our faith was," Wald told the Spectator.
When she unlocked the bedroom door where she had left his body
for Jesus, however, it was badly decomposed and had attracted
rodents. His feet were stuck out from under blankets with gauze
still wrapped around the left foot. He could not be identified
by photograph.
#Post#: 1626--------------------------------------------------
Re: God's goodness ...
By: HappyHeretic Date: April 29, 2015, 9:07 am
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=160.msg1620#msg1620
date=1430307665]
I have already said there were times when Jesus healed all who
came to him, so what are you crowing about? Why not try
telling me something I don't know?
As for Matthew's quoting Isaiah? Matthew is a hard book to
understand. The citations of the Old Testament are extremely
hard.
[/quote]
Are you saying that Is 53 was not quoted in Matthew 8 in a
context of Jesus healing people?
Whether there are other difficult bits and pieces, this one is
straight forward.
You may continue to undermine the goodness of God and continue
to believe Him to be less good than He actually is.
Mike HM
#Post#: 1627--------------------------------------------------
Re: God's goodness ...
By: HappyHeretic Date: April 29, 2015, 9:08 am
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=160.msg1623#msg1623
date=1430311366]
Remember this tragic story from December last year? This
article about it is from christianpost.com
HTML http://www.christianpost.com/news/christian-woman-prayed-6-months-for-dead-husbands-resurrection-until-his-corpse-had-rotted-beyond-recognition-130568/:
[/quote]
I was not aware of the story. What point exactly are you trying
to make by posting it in this thread?
Mike HM
#Post#: 1631--------------------------------------------------
Re: God's goodness ...
By: A nonny mouse Date: April 29, 2015, 11:29 am
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=160.msg1619#msg1619
date=1430306708]
You were doing just fine until you added that last phrase which
implies maybe God didn't get things completely right to begin
with and has to intervene at times -- or perhaps just for the
fun of it, breaks His own laws.
What we call "signs and wonders" or "miracles" are really only
things we don't understand yet or can't do ourselves. We should
accept the fact we don't understand them and not leap to the
conclusion that God is changing His Mind about things and making
exceptions to His laws.
[/quote]
Kerry (and whoever else wishes to comment), I can understand
anyone not wishing to agree with me, but I can’t understand the
need for trying so hard to discredit (and to misrepresent) what
I believe as to my personal inclination.
To me my position is incredibly simple and clear in terms of
being a plausible option.
For years I had battled with the nonsense of thousands of
‘believers’, each claiming to be the beneficiaries of theologies
which they considered to be based on the same Bible, and yet
sufficiently unique and important to underpin the formation of a
new and divisive ‘Denomination’.
Initially I began to develop an understanding that resolved the
nonsense; only later to find that I was not alone, with many
notable intellectuals having come to the same resolutions in the
form of ‘Deism’.
Why the need to resort to the same old cherry picking of man’s
numerous ‘Biblical’ attempts to Create God in man’s own image,
in order to discredit what I now believe?
#Post#: 1633--------------------------------------------------
Re: God's goodness ...
By: Kerry Date: April 29, 2015, 1:35 pm
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[quote author=A Trusting Deist link=topic=160.msg1631#msg1631
date=1430324993]
Kerry (and whoever else wishes to comment), I can understand
anyone not wishing to agree with me, but I can’t understand the
need for trying so hard to discredit (and to misrepresent) what
I believe as to my personal inclination.
To me my position is incredibly simple and clear in terms of
being a plausible option.
For years I had battled with the nonsense of thousands of
‘believers’, each claiming to be the beneficiaries of theologies
which they considered to be based on the same Bible, and yet
sufficiently unique and important to underpin the formation of a
new and divisive ‘Denomination’.
Initially I began to develop an understanding that resolved the
nonsense; only later to find that I was not alone, with many
notable intellectuals having come to the same resolutions in the
form of ‘Deism’.
Why the need to resort to the same old cherry picking of man’s
numerous ‘Biblical’ attempts to Create God in man’s own image,
in order to discredit what I now believe?
[/quote]I am persuaded that you are not far from the truth. I
do not give a fig about winning an argument. Rather I would
like to see you sigh a sigh of relief and say, "God is all I
ever hoped for and more. Before I had only hoped, and now I
know."
Job was in a more desperate but similar position. He had heard
things about God. Words and more words. By men. But he got
his revelation: "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the
ear: but now mine eye seeth thee."
The soul is at rest. All is well. Everything has always been
well. God is on His Throne and nothing could possibly go
wrong, not permanently anyway.
In a way, it is even right to think that each person creates his
own truths. That can be tricky, of course. We can imagine all
kinds of hell for ourselves and then dwell in them.
#Post#: 1636--------------------------------------------------
Re: God's goodness ...
By: A nonny mouse Date: April 29, 2015, 5:21 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=160.msg1633#msg1633
date=1430332526]
I would like to see you sigh a sigh of relief and say, "God is
all I ever hoped for and more. Before I had only hoped, and now
I know."
[/quote]
But, as inconvenient as it might be, I am not able to say that.
What I would have to say is that I have come to realise that God
appears to be unlikely to be as I once hoped, in as much as I
once believed God to be as presented by the Evangelical
Alliance's Statement of Faith.
But I do indeed breath a sigh of relieve in finding the Deistic
resolution to the inconsistencies, and implausibilities that
later emerged.
#Post#: 1639--------------------------------------------------
Re: God's goodness ...
By: Kerry Date: April 29, 2015, 6:44 pm
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[quote author=A Trusting Deist link=topic=160.msg1636#msg1636
date=1430346085]
But, as inconvenient as it might be, I am not able to say that.
What I would have to say is that I have come to realise that God
appears to be unlikely to be as I once hoped, in as much as I
once believed God to be as presented by the Evangelical
Alliance's Statement of Faith.
But I do indeed breath a sigh of relieve in finding the Deistic
resolution to the inconsistencies, and implausibilities that
later emerged.
[/quote]Do you mean this list of 11 articles?
WE BELIEVE IN...
The one true God who lives eternally in three persons—the
Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
The love, grace and sovereignty of God in creating, sustaining,
ruling, redeeming and judging the world.
The divine inspiration and supreme authority of the Old and New
Testament Scriptures, which are the written Word of God—fully
trustworthy for faith and conduct.
The dignity of all people, made male and female in God's image
to love, be holy and care for creation, yet corrupted by sin,
which incurs divine wrath and judgement.
The incarnation of God’s eternal Son, the Lord Jesus Christ—born
of the virgin Mary; truly divine and truly human, yet without
sin.
The atoning sacrifice of Christ on the cross: dying in our
place, paying the price of sin and defeating evil, so
reconciling us with God.
The bodily resurrection of Christ, the first fruits of our
resurrection; his ascension to the Father, and his reign and
mediation as the only Saviour of the world.
The justification of sinners solely by the grace of God through
faith in Christ.
The ministry of God the Holy Spirit, who leads us to repentance,
unites us with Christ through new birth, empowers our
discipleship and enables our witness.
The Church, the body of Christ both local and universal, the
priesthood of all believers—given life by the Spirit and endowed
with the Spirit's gifts to worship God and proclaim the gospel,
promoting justice and love.
The personal and visible return of Jesus Christ to fulfil the
purposes of God, who will raise all people to judgement, bring
eternal life to the redeemed and eternal condemnation to the
lost, and establish a new heaven and new earth.
Did you really hope all those things were true, or did people
persuade you they were? There's a few things there that make
me miserable if I believed them. I would have hoped for
something better. For one thing, I have never hoped for
"eternal life to the redeemed and eternal condemnation to the
lost." Could anyone really hope for that?
#Post#: 1640--------------------------------------------------
Re: God's goodness ...
By: Kerry Date: April 29, 2015, 7:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=HereticMouse link=topic=160.msg1627#msg1627
date=1430316498]
I was not aware of the story. What point exactly are you trying
to make by posting it in this thread?
Mike HM
[/quote]How a man died from a sickness that is treatable by
doctors. There's no guarantee that doctors would have cured
him; but what is clear to me is he wasn't willing to let them
try. He stuck to his ideas about what God should do for him and
he died. Then his grieving wife could afford their house; and
finally someone came to evict her. That too probably could have
been avoided if her husband had gotten medical attention. Then
his rotting body was discovered let his body while she stuck to
her ideas that God would resurrect him.
These things are the result of delusion. Stubbornness too in
sticking to beliefs when you can see they're not true. And add
arrogance to the mix as well for such people believe they know
what to expect from God since the know His Mind so well. They
are like little children who think candy is good and brushing
your teeth is bad -- and the children say, "If you love me,
you'll buy me more candy and you won't make me brush my teeth."
What will it take for them to learn?
These people were not praying to God. They had a substitute, an
idol, whom they trusted to save them and their idol did not.
Their faith in their idol led to disaster since their idol also
told them not to help themselves and not to allow other humans
to help. It may not be God's Will to heal everyone right now;
but I'd say some demon was taking delight in seeing the
suffering and dying he caused by filling their minds with
delusions.
This was the work of the Devil -- and they thought they were
good Christians. If God had wanted to heal the man, how could
He have when the man was asking a demon for help?
#Post#: 1643--------------------------------------------------
Re: God's goodness ...
By: A nonny mouse Date: April 30, 2015, 1:48 am
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=160.msg1639#msg1639
date=1430351074]
Do you mean this list of 11 articles?............
Did you really hope all those things were true, or did people
persuade you they were?
[/quote]
Originally I both 'hoped and believed' in all items within that
Statement of Faith since it was what my original 'Church'
persuaded me to hope and believe.
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