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#Post#: 1229--------------------------------------------------
Re: BBC2 - Sex and the church.
DIR By: Poppy
Date: April 19, 2015, 4:31 am
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--- Quote from: Heartsong link ---
>
> Sorry just now saw this. If these videos are too offensive
they can be deleted.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi Heartsong, that's why I didn't post them on here. It's only
bits of the first episode which shows anything racy and then
it's just images.
#Post#: 1231--------------------------------------------------
Re: BBC2 - Sex and the church.
DIR By: Poppy
Date: April 19, 2015, 4:45 am
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--- Quote ---
> =Piper I base my understanding of the Catholic Church upon the
Catechism of the Catholic Church
--- End Quote ---
When was the catechism written?
It seems to me that some of the early church leaders could, and
did, add much to the teachings of Jesus. They had power and
they used it to control people.
#Post#: 1239--------------------------------------------------
Re: BBC2 - Sex and the church.
DIR By: Kerry
Date: April 19, 2015, 7:11 am
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--- Quote from: Piper link ---
>
> [size=12pt][font=trebuchet ms]What a can of worms we have now.
(Realizing we are on your "blog", Poppy, you might wish to ask
that the thread be split.)
>
> Be reminded the Catholic Church is not condoning any such
behavior.
>
> Dare I suggest that "men filled with lust wandering about"
could certainly conceive of relief other than raping women OR
using "fallen women"? Granted, the Church considers all three
sinful, but what is the lesser sin?
>
> Just what is a "fallen woman"? Does a counterpart exist, that
of "fallen men"?
--- End Quote ---
You do not know what a fallen woman is? Come now. And yes,
there is a counterpart of fallen men. I forget what medieval
author said in his autobiography that as soon as he left France
and entered Italy, he was approached and asked if he would like
a woman, or perhaps a boy?
--- Quote ---
> (Questions for consideration only. Not meaning to chew you
out, Kerry.)
>
> I certainly don't buy that men are animals in rut who have no
control over their sexual urges. If any Bishop in times past
backed such a thing as prostitution, certainly the Church did
not.
--- End Quote ---
Consider the culture of the day. If a woman was known not to
be a virgin, it reduced her prospects of marriage considerably.
Once her reputation was damaged, the odds were stacked
against her. You can preach about such things all you want; but
the reality is still there.
Are we any better off today? Today we no longer care that
much if women are chaste before marriage. They can still find
husbands. Is that an improvement?
--- Quote ---
> Marriage is honored as a sacrament. It is taken very
seriously by the Church, as marriage should be. If it were
impressed upon everyone that marriage is a very serious
commitment, one that binds a person to another for possibly 7 or
more decades, and if people were counseled to not be impulsive,
but truly spend much time considering all implications before
entering in, perhaps more marriages would be lasting.
>
--- End Quote ---
Today it's considered a sacrament. Poppy sent me a PM with
the links to the shows; but I know that for a long time,
marriage was considered a secular thing, not something the
church got involved with. I'm not sure exactly when the first
marriage occurred inside a church -- I've tried to research it
and can't find out when. Nor am I sure when the Catholic Church
first said it was a sacrament.
I know that today the Catechism also calls it a covenant; and
that's a rather new idea. I believe that idea arose in France
and was debated in the 1940's. Today it's in the Catholic
Catechism and taught as if it is part of a Tradition that goes
back to the Apostles.
#Post#: 1241--------------------------------------------------
Re: BBC2 - Sex and the church.
DIR By: Kerry
Date: April 19, 2015, 7:48 am
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--- Quote from: Poppy link ---
>
> It's not suggesting that the church today condones such
behaviour Nancy. It's a history programme showing how the
church's attitude to sex changed, making sex a sin and marriage
a sacrament, but that it considered even married sex to be
sinful .
>
--- End Quote ---
First a statement, then a question. I will agree that for
centuries Christianity was like Judaism considering marriage to
be a matter for the state and not for religion; and somewhere
along the line, the distinction between state and religion got
blurred.
Question: When the Protestants broke with Rome, what
denominations sought to return to the original position of early
Christianity -- what denominations, if any, said marriage was a
secular institution and not a religious one?
I can think of only one denomination. . . .
#Post#: 1242--------------------------------------------------
Re: BBC2 - Sex and the church.
DIR By: bradley
Date: April 19, 2015, 8:04 am
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I know that the catholic church has had many faults down
throughout history, to include the modern catholic church.
Never the less, I would err on the church's side in much of the
dialog concerning its dirty laundry list put out by those
at the history channel, who seems to love to put out propaganda
(putting one set of historical documents as more valid than
others that contradict because they are "against the church")
against christianity.
#Post#: 1244--------------------------------------------------
Re: BBC2 - Sex and the church.
DIR By: Poppy
Date: April 19, 2015, 9:07 am
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If you Google 'Sex and the church' you will find links so that
you can watch it for yourself - not on the history channel but
on BBC2.
#Post#: 1245--------------------------------------------------
Re: BBC2 - Sex and the church.
DIR By: Piper
Date: April 19, 2015, 10:42 am
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I still can not get the "Quote" function to work. I click on
"Quote" and a bar comes up at the top of the forum that says
"Loading", but I wait and wait, and nothing more happens.
So I'll copy and paste:
--- Quote ---
> Poppy: It's not suggesting that the church today condones
such behaviour Nancy. It's a history programme showing how the
church's attitude to sex changed, making sex a sin and marriage
a sacrament, but that it considered even married sex to be
sinful .
--- End Quote ---
The bias of the show, the very subject matter, is obviously
going to sway people against the Church, especially if they are
already ill-informed. And I believe that is the agenda of such
shows that pinpoint only negative history. Your OP alone:
anti-sex, even within marriage; anti-women; brothels; and child
abuse . . . all negative.
Why promote division? Where are the shows with positive Church
history?
#Post#: 1246--------------------------------------------------
Re: BBC2 - Sex and the church.
DIR By: Kerry
Date: April 19, 2015, 11:23 am
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--- Quote from: Piper link ---
>
> I still can not get the "Quote" function to work. I click on
"Quote" and a bar comes up at the top of the forum that says
"Loading", but I wait and wait, and nothing more happens.
--- End Quote ---
The only thing I can think of to suggest is to delete all the
cookies for this site in your browser and then log in again.
#Post#: 1247--------------------------------------------------
Re: BBC2 - Sex and the church.
DIR By: Piper
Date: April 19, 2015, 11:44 am
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--- Quote ---
> Poppy: It seems to me that some of the early church leaders
could, and did, add much to the teachings of Jesus. They had
power and they used it to control people.
--- End Quote ---
I have heard many people, first-hand, say that the entire intent
of Christianity overall is "to control people." I've heard it
said that Christianity only wishes to "make people feel guilty,"
thereby controlling their lives.
What you and/or others may see as "control", some may see simply
as shepherding the faithful. Some people are grateful for what
they see as guidance. Certainly, I admit I NEED guidance, as
this faith has taken me down a road of utter confusion. The
divisions I've discovered are astounding. I found my head
spinning, not knowing who to believe. I could not even identify
the solid teachings of the faith, as everyone proclaimed
something different.
If we wish to believe the direct teachings of Jesus alone are
all we need to guide us thru the ages, then perhaps we should
focus only on the red-letter text of the bible. But, I think
many questions arise as time goes by, many questions in modern
life arise, in which faithful Christians need guidance,
including questions of morality relevant to the times and
obviously the original gospel, the original faith must be
preserved or it is twisted and changed dramatically by every
whim of personal interpretation or agenda.
In brief, Catholics believe Jesus set men (his apostles) in
authority and by giving the keys to Peter, an office, successive
by its historical nature was established. Jesus thereby
established in His Church His own visible authority guarded by
the Holy Spirit. In this way, it is believed, the Church
protects the deposit of faith.
Jesus is a King who established a Kingdom. The Pope is seen as
the King's steward.
Annnnnywaaaay . . .
--- Quote ---
> Poppy: When was the catechism written?
--- End Quote ---
Here is a very informative link which will explain
comprehensively about the Catechisms, if anyone is truly
interested:
HTML http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/frequently-asked-questions-about-the-catechism-of-the-catholic-church.cfm
HTML http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/frequently-asked-questions-about-the-catechism-of-the-catholic-church.cfm
#Post#: 1248--------------------------------------------------
Re: BBC2 - Sex and the church.
DIR By: Poppy
Date: April 19, 2015, 11:55 am
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[quote=Piper]Jesus is a King who established a Kingdom. The
Pope is seen as the King's steward.[/quote]
The Roman church was founded by Emperor Constantine when he
believed the Christian God had helped him win an important
battle. Following on from that more and more was added to the
teachings of Jesus.
--- Quote ---
> What is a brief history of the Catechism?
> The Catechism of the Catholic Church originated with a
recommendation made at the Extraordinary Synod of Bishops in
1985. In 1986 Pope John Paul II appointed a Commission of
Cardinals and Bishops to develop a compendium of Catholic
doctrine. In 1989 the Commission sent the text to all the
Bishops of the world for consultation. In 1990 the Commission
examined and evaluated over 24,000 amendments suggested by the
world's bishops. The final draft is considerably different from
the one that was circulated in 1989. In 1991 the Commission
prepared the text for the Holy Father's official approval. On
June 25, 1992 Pope John Paul II officially approved the
definitive version of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. On
December 8, 1992 Pope John Paul II promulgated the Catechism
with an apostolic constitution.
--- End Quote ---
This quote taken from the site you gave me a link to, says that
the catechism is a modern document. I would have thought it may
have originated much earlier than that. If there was a previous
one I didn't have time to go through the whole site looking for
it.
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