DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Religious Convictions
HTML https://religiousconvictions.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Poppy's
*****************************************************
#Post#: 1211--------------------------------------------------
BBC2 - Sex and the church.
By: Poppy Date: April 18, 2015, 1:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The last couple of weeks BBC2 in the UK has shown the first two
of three programmes entitled, 'Sex and the church'.
[quote]"Diarmaid MacCulloch examines how the Christian Church
took control of marriage in the 11th century and turned a civil
institution into a sacred rite, as well as forbidding its own
clergy from taking spouses - ending a thousand years of clerical
marriages. The historian then explores how a sexual revolution
took place in the 16th century when German monk Martin Luther
started to rail against the power and corruption of the pope and
the Catholic Church, leading to the Protestant Reformation and a
fundamental change in attitudes toward sex."[/quote]
It has been a real eye opener as it shows how the church became
anti sex, even within marriage, and anti women as it prevented
nuns, who had previously been allowed to study, from doing so.
It opened brothels and covered up child abuse many centuries
before this topic entered the modern arena.
So interesting.
#Post#: 1213--------------------------------------------------
Re: BBC2 - Sex and the church.
By: Piper Date: April 18, 2015, 3:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]So interesting.[/quote]
[font=trebuchet ms]So biased.
Luv ya, Poppy, but, really?
Read the Catechism if you truly wish to understand the Church's
views on sex and marriage.
We can dig up negative propaganda on any church, and the
Catholic Church has a much longer history than most,so if you
seek negative, you will find negative.
Anti-sex? That's actually funny, since Catholics usually have
large families. The babies are not growing out back in the
garden.
Brothels? And who ran them? The nuns? St. Peter's House of
Pleasure: a cross on the door, and a home for the anti-sex
shepherds of the faith to relieve their needs. Enjoy, and then
go to confession in the left wing of the building on your way
out to be set right with God ::)
Catechism. Read.
Don't propagate hate.
Christians have enough enemies, and the Catholic Church is not
one of them.[/font]
#Post#: 1214--------------------------------------------------
Re: BBC2 - Sex and the church.
By: Poppy Date: April 18, 2015, 4:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
So true? It's not me saying it it's historians. This was all
well documented historical fact. Names were named, documents
were shown. You can't re-write history. What happened,
happened, even if some people don't like it.
You can watch it online I'll PM you the links.
#Post#: 1217--------------------------------------------------
Re: BBC2 - Sex and the church.
By: Piper Date: April 18, 2015, 5:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[font=trebuchet ms]I won't base my opinion of the Church on one
show digging up dirt from the past. Bad things that happened in
one local in the past do not constitute what the Church as a
whole stands for or what it should be judged by.
Once again: I base my understanding of the Catholic Church upon
the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which clearly explains
their beliefs, including those which concern sex and marriage.
What of the good things in the history of the Church? The good,
God fearing people of mercy and kindness? What of those? Did
the show offer any balance whatsoever? If not, then the show is
biased with the agenda of making people dislike the Catholic
Church today.
Catholics are like all people; there are good and bad.
Individual Churches, likewise.
Catholics are our brothers and sisters in the faith, "even if
some people don't like it". At least we can give fair trial if
we wish to speak of their faith, by investing time to know what
it teaches.
You say the program is an 'eye opener.' Well, so is the
Catechism, more so, and it is relevant to the Church today. No
one need agree with what is in it, but at least know what is in
it before believing everything you see and hear or making
judgements based on programs intentionally pinpointing dark
history.[/font]
#Post#: 1221--------------------------------------------------
Re: BBC2 - Sex and the church.
By: Kerry Date: April 18, 2015, 10:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I'd be interested in seeing this series myself. Can you post
the links here?
I know a little about the brothels. I thought it was usually
the cities who ran them; but it wouldn't surprise me if a Bishop
or two ran some. Yes, the Church often backed the idea of
having brothels; and their reasoning then was the same we have
today for giving heroin addicts a less potent drug like
methadone. They figured that the fallen women who were willing
to work in brothels; and men having sex with them would be less
sinful than having men filled with lust wandering about,
perhaps raping innocent women. If people were going to have
sex one way or another, why not regulate it and operate it?
I read about the rapes in India; and I wonder if maybe a few
brothels would be better than what they have now.
It's not an easy black-or-white proposition. Is the government
regulating or even running gambling operations a good idea? Or
is it better to ban them and allow organized crime to spring up?
At any rate, the theory then was that brothels could cut down
on rape; and I'd like to watch the series to see if they give
that explanation.
I have mixed feelings on the subject myself. Currently we have
huge problems here in the USA where criminal gangs often operate
prostitution rings. They often hold immigrant women against
their will. Child prostitution is also a problem.
Before the BBC gets too self-righteous in its attitude, perhaps
they should ask if things were better back in the "good old
days" when there were legal brothels or today where schoolgirls
are being raped in the UK? Are we really all that enlightened
today when such things can happen in England?
Yes, there are religious, cultural and perhaps even tribal
influences at work today in the UK when school girls can be
raped with impunity; but it seems to me that Muslims in the UK
should prefer legal houses of prostitution to what they have
now.
#Post#: 1224--------------------------------------------------
Re: BBC2 - Sex and the church.
By: Piper Date: April 19, 2015, 1:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[font=trebuchet ms]What a can of worms we have now. (Realizing
we are on your "blog", Poppy, you might wish to ask that the
thread be split.)
Be reminded the Catholic Church is not condoning any such
behavior.
Dare I suggest that "men filled with lust wandering about" could
certainly conceive of relief other than raping women OR using
"fallen women"? Granted, the Church considers all three sinful,
but what is the lesser sin?
Just what is a "fallen woman"? Does a counterpart exist, that of
"fallen men"?
(Questions for consideration only. Not meaning to chew you out,
Kerry.)
I certainly don't buy that men are animals in rut who have no
control over their sexual urges. If any Bishop in times past
backed such a thing as prostitution, certainly the Church did
not.
The Church today teaches that sex not be without love:
[/font]
[quote][font=times new roman]2361 “Sexuality, by means of which
man and woman give themselves to one another through the acts
which are proper and exclusive to spouses, is not something
simply biological, but concerns the innermost being of the human
person as such. It is realized in a truly human way only if it
is an integral part of the love by which a man and woman commit
themselves totally to one another until death” [/font][/quote]
[font=trebuchet ms]The Church teaches that sexuality within
marriage is honorable and meant to be a source of joy and
pleasure:[/font]
[quote][font=times new roman]2362 “The acts in marriage by which
the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are
noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts
fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in
joy and gratitude”. Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure .
. .[/font][/quote]
[font=trebuchet ms]My point being: The Church is not anti-sex
within marriage.
Marriage is honored as a sacrament. It is taken very seriously
by the Church, as marriage should be. If it were impressed upon
everyone that marriage is a very serious commitment, one that
binds a person to another for possibly 7 or more decades, and if
people were counseled to not be impulsive, but truly spend much
time considering all implications before entering in, perhaps
more marriages would be lasting.[/font]
#Post#: 1225--------------------------------------------------
Re: BBC2 - Sex and the church.
By: Poppy Date: April 19, 2015, 4:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It's not suggesting that the church today condones such
behaviour Nancy. It's a history programme showing how the
church's attitude to sex changed, making sex a sin and marriage
a sacrament, but that it considered even married sex to be
sinful .
#Post#: 1226--------------------------------------------------
Re: BBC2 - Sex and the church.
By: Poppy Date: April 19, 2015, 4:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote=Kerry]I'd be interested in seeing this series myself.
Can you post the links here?[/quote]
I'll PM you.
#Post#: 1227--------------------------------------------------
Re: BBC2 - Sex and the church.
By: Heartsong Date: April 19, 2015, 4:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I found some links to this on youtube.
Warning:Graphic Images
Sex And The Church From Pleasure To Sin BBC Documentary 2015
I deleted this one.
-------------------------
I'm now watching Season 1 Episode 2.
Season 1, Episode 2 - “Sexual Revolution”
Professor Diarmaid MacCulloch continues his exploration of how
Christianity has shaped western attitudes to sex, gender and
sexuality through history. Travelling from the north east of
England to Germany and Italy, he explains how the Christian
church took control of marriage in the 11th century, turning a
civil institution into a sacred rite of Christianity. And he
reveals how the Protestant Reformation launched a sexual
revolution.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKUPq0lQvTU
#Post#: 1228--------------------------------------------------
Re: BBC2 - Sex and the church.
By: Heartsong Date: April 19, 2015, 4:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Poppy link=topic=140.msg1226#msg1226
date=1429435240]
I'll PM you.
[/quote]
Sorry just now saw this. If these videos are too offensive they
can be deleted.
*****************************************************
DIR Next Page