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#Post#: 1230--------------------------------------------------
Re: What do I no longer 'believe'?
By: Poppy Date: April 19, 2015, 4:35 am
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Obviously the books in the bible were written by men but Jesus
believed the OT scriptures to be the word of God so I do too.
#Post#: 1232--------------------------------------------------
Re: What do I no longer 'believe'?
By: A nonny mouse Date: April 19, 2015, 5:21 am
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[quote author=Poppy link=topic=133.msg1230#msg1230
date=1429436113]
Obviously the books in the bible were written by men but Jesus
believed the OT scriptures to be the word of God so I do too.
[/quote]
But how do you know that?
Jesus never committed a single word to writing (is that of no
significance?).
All that you have is the writings of scribes based on the
apostles best recall of what they had heard decades earlier
(that being why their accounts differed one from the other).
And who's to say those scribes had no 'religious' agendas based
on what Jesus might have 'come' in order to straighten out?
Take "Jesus of Nazareth" as an example....I've just been reading
that Nazareth didn't exist until 3 centuries after Christ (the
writer concluding that the notion was fabricated by the scribes
of that period).
Might that be true?.....I've absolutely no idea.
#Post#: 1233--------------------------------------------------
Re: What do I no longer 'believe'?
By: Poppy Date: April 19, 2015, 5:46 am
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So when Jesus quote OT scripture prophecy and the NT writers who
were his close followers did you're saying they were mistaken in
thinking they were quoting Spirit inspired writings.
#Post#: 1234--------------------------------------------------
Re: What do I no longer 'believe'?
By: Kerry Date: April 19, 2015, 6:48 am
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[quote author=James link=topic=133.msg1216#msg1216
date=1429394360]
I wonder if you vowed never to follow man again and as such will
not aline yourself with any general truth on the basis that you
want a distinctive doctrine that sets you apart from your fellow
man. You even revel in such a position calling yourself a
heretic, by which you say I am not as other men are.[/quote]
I wondered the same thing. I would say I have followed what I
would call false teachers in the past. What should my reaction
be, I asked myself, when it became clear to me they were in
error?
I believe I profited by the experiences. Even though the spin
they put on the Scriptures was often wrong, I was still learning
the texts themselves. This was valuable to me later just as
Paul's studies before he became a Christian proved useful to him
later.
I believe God allowed me to be steered in the wrong direction to
chastise me. There was something wrong with me that wanted the
wrong kind of answers. I was like the children of Israel when
they demanded a king. God allowed me to have what I wanted.
Rather than condemn them, I had to ask what was wrong with me
for picking them as leaders. This question may be the one Mike
needs to ask himself.
#Post#: 1235--------------------------------------------------
Re: What do I no longer 'believe'?
By: A nonny mouse Date: April 19, 2015, 6:49 am
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[quote author=Poppy link=topic=133.msg1233#msg1233
date=1429440373]
So when Jesus quote OT scripture prophecy and the NT writers who
were his close followers did you're saying they were mistaken in
thinking they were quoting Spirit inspired writings.
[/quote]
But did they really do that or is it just what others reckoned
they had done?
I consider that my questioning have as much credibility as do
your questionings regarding the credibility of the Catholic
Catechisms based on when they were written.
You are a Protestant no naturally you 'protest' against
Catholicism.
I too am A Protestant (but with a difference in that I am
'protesting' against both Catholicism and against Reformation
Protestantism).
For me the whole 'shooting match' from Genesis onwards, is of
man's fabrication and is therefore bound to be party correct and
partly wrong (not least on the basis of the limited knowledge
and superstitious nature of the earliest writers).
But I believe Sovereign God has always maintained overall
control with his major intervention being the Incarnation of
Christ resolving all needed knowledge, and hitherto excessive
imaginings, into the simple common denominator of Love.
Otherwise what is true and what is false out of what has been
written remains unclear to us at this present time.
#Post#: 1236--------------------------------------------------
Re: What do I no longer 'believe'?
By: A nonny mouse Date: April 19, 2015, 6:58 am
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=133.msg1234#msg1234
date=1429444104]
I believe God allowed me to be steered in the wrong direction to
chastise me. There was something wrong with me that wanted the
wrong kind of answers. I was like the children of Israel when
they demanded a king. God allowed me to have what I wanted.
Rather than condemn them, I had to ask what was wrong with me
for picking them as leaders. This question may be the one Mike
needs to ask himself.
[/quote]
I wouldn't be where I am today were it not for my total open
mindedness towards radical rethinking.
Only a few moments ago I allowed myself a degree of
re-examination as I read through
HTML http://www.pathguy.com/jesus/
Who else is open minded enough to even bother to read it it
right through?
#Post#: 1243--------------------------------------------------
Re: What do I no longer 'believe'?
By: Amadeus Date: April 19, 2015, 9:02 am
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[quote author=Way of the Spirit link=topic=133.msg1160#msg1160
date=1429175980]
Here I am, tucked away in my own little corner where members who
are 'offended' by the current radically minded 'me' can opt out
and leave me to my personal 'heresies'.[/quote]
[font=courier][size=14pt]And just what is a heresy, Mike? Is
there only one absolute standard or do different persons and/or
groups have their own definitions? Consider truth? According to
what I believe there is really only one absolute truth, but
obviously men seem to have many. Is it not so with heresies as
well?[/font]
[quote]If there is indeed but one true God then to my way of
thinking/believing he has to be ‘God of the entire universe’ and
not just the 'God of Israel', adopted by Western Christendom.
(By 'God of the entire universe' I mean ‘universe’ as we
currently understand it, as distinct from 'God of the universe'
that was limited to the Hebrew/Egyptian confines of the
15th-11th century BC.)[/quote]
[font=courier]Many probably fit into the boxes you have
described, but do not some (in addition to yourself) think a bit
outside of the box even if they do not deny the tenets of some
within your defined boxes? Who is really alone? And who is
really not alone?[/font]
[quote]In my ‘book’ myths and fables such as those of the
Genesis creation and Noah’s Ark stories have no more
authenticity than do the fables surrounding the ‘Pillars of
Hercules’, purporting the world to be ‘flat’, off the edge of
which sailors would fall if daring to venture beyond the
Straights of Gibraltar.
That being the extent of the knowledge of our cosmos that
limited those who wrote what we call the old Testament.[/quote]
[font=courier]Why do you call any of those stories myths and
fables? You were apparently not around at the of the mentioned
stories so why not rather at worst hold them in abeyance rather
than throw into a seemingly fictional pot?
Why would a really omnipotent God be unable to control what is
written and assure that what He wants to convey is conveyed
through the writings of men? You wish to make no distinction
between groups of stories, but what if the omnipotent God
does?[/font]
[quote]‘Man’, (including Moses and the Prophets) has, in my
opinion, always had the propensity to respond to his inner
conviction of an unknown paranormal realm by ‘creating’ God in
his own image/imagination and committing his imaginings to ‘holy
writings’.[/quote]
[font=courier]
Even if man has 'created' a god or gods as you say, why could
God (an omnipotent God) use such creations to leave a record of
discernable truth (the only real truth)?[/font]
[quote]Christ (in my opinion) came to correct all such
imaginings, replacing such writings with the one single law of
‘Love’ written (if I might indulge in a borrowed phrase of
Christendom) only in the ‘fleshy tables of man’s heart’.[/quote]
[font=courier]While I might agree in part with your statement,
would this really mean that an omnipotent God could not or would
not use the very "imaginings" of men to accomplish His
purposes?[/font]
[quote]Man however, as is his wont, reverted to his propensity
to create God in his own image and, shortly after the death of
Christ, immediately began to reverse the purpose of Christ’s
‘mission’ by reviving and adding to man’s earliest ‘holy
writings’ in the form of a new composite holy text book.[/quote]
[font=courier]Whatever man has done or is doing that works as
you say, how could any such doing really confuse the purpose of
an omnipotent God purposes? Of course individuals could [as they
always have] go their own way, but who can change God's Word?
Changing the translation or the superficial meanings is hardly
changing the Word of God, is it? People who understanding even
in a measure what God's Word really is, should not be affected
by such things... if... they are trusting in God rather than in
their own abilities.[/font]
[quote]So, here we are today, ‘Christ Within’ by means of
‘Faith’ supplanted by ‘God in a text book’ by means of
‘Religion’.
And that (as ironic as you can get) is ‘this man’ having created
God in my own image/imagination.
[/quote]
[font=courier]As I believe it, that which is within a person
that is of God cannot be supplanted by anything that God has not
allowed within His plan. Can man twist what God has created? I
believe so, but again if a person is really leaning on God
rather than on himself, what difference can it make to that
person?[/font]
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