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#Post#: 1059--------------------------------------------------
Paradise
DIR By: Piper
Date: April 12, 2015, 6:58 pm
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St. Luke tells us Jesus said to the repentant thief, "This day
thou shalt be with me in paradise"; we tend to think the thief
went straight to heaven. But St. John reports Christ saying to
Mary Magdalen after his resurrection, "I am not yet ascended to
my Father."
What, then, is paradise?
#Post#: 1065--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paradise
DIR By: Kerry
Date: April 12, 2015, 10:08 pm
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The word means "garden" or "park." I think it's the Garden of
Eden. Some say, including me, that there is an upper section
of Paradise and a lower section. The Psalm the "Song of
Ascents" may be about going up from the lower section to the
upper.
They are in the upper and lower waters. I believe Jesus went
to both sections after his death. The lower waters has been
corrupted and is now filled with all sorts of things. What we
call hell is there. Thus I believe Jesus visited the "lower
waters" to preach to souls trapped there and then to the "upper
waters" to be with Abraham and others, and that's where the
thief met him. He refreshed or repaired things in the upper
and lower waters, bringing a revitalized form of life. Compare
to Day Five of Genesis. Souls in the lower waters can be
thought of fish; and souls in the upper waters as birds.
I take much of this article with a grain of salt; but it
contains a curious detail.
HTML http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/11900-paradise
There are a nether Gehinnom and an upper one, over against the
nether and the upper Gan 'Eden. Curiously enough, hell and
paradise join each other. R. Johanan claims that a partition of
only a hand-breadth, or four inches wide, separates them. The
Rabbis say the width is but two fingers (= inches; Midr.
Ḳohelet; Yalḳ., 976). R. Akiba said: "Every man born
has two places reserved for him: one in paradise, and one in
Gehinnom. If he be righteous he gets his own place and that of
his wicked neighbor in paradise; if he be wicked he gets his own
place and that of his righteous neighbor in Gehinnom" (Hag. 16a;
see "Sefer Ḥasidim," §§ 609, 610). The question "Who may
be a candidate for either Gehinnom or paradise?" is solved by
the majority rule. If the majority of the acts of the individual
are meritorious, he enters paradise; if wicked, he goes to
Gehinnom; and if they are equal, God mercifully removes one
wicked act and places it in the scale of good deeds.
Rabbi Johanan seems to have agreed with Jesus who depicted
Abraham and Lazarus in one place that was close enough they
could see the rich man in Gehinnom.
#Post#: 1069--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paradise
DIR By: James
Date: April 13, 2015, 8:39 am
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As Jesus says this day you will be in paradise with me and Jesus
was going to be put into the grave, I have always seen that the
thief would as it were make a three day journey with Jesus into
the realm of the dead and that when Jesus rose the thief would
join that great cloud of witnesses mentioned in Hebrews .
This is dependant on ones understanding of what This Day might
encompass.
#Post#: 1070--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paradise
DIR By: Helen
Date: April 13, 2015, 12:12 pm
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Amen, good points in both posts.
And I too like Kerry believe very much in The Garden...I have
been there once or twice in dreams and sat with my mother on the
banks of the river there...beautiful. Every time I felt it was
a 'God-dream', I had not been thinking of her or anything. I
believe that is where people are now....in the Garden..I don't
believe anyone dwells in heaven yet. We just understand what
people mean when they say- " Grandma is in Heaven"
#Post#: 1076--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paradise
DIR By: Poppy
Date: April 13, 2015, 1:50 pm
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I once had a God dream in which a voice kept telling me. "Go
back to the garden."
#Post#: 1078--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paradise
DIR By: bradley
Date: April 13, 2015, 1:54 pm
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According to a dream I had, it was a garden on an Island filled
with people and animals who were friends to mankind. I had a
lion as my companion there. It was only filled with good souls
though, the rest drifted around on the sea, lost and alone.
#Post#: 1084--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paradise
DIR By: Piper
Date: April 13, 2015, 2:21 pm
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--- Quote from: bradley link ---
>
> According to a dream I had, it was a garden on an Island
filled with people and animals who were friends to mankind. I
had a lion as my companion there. It was only filled with good
souls though, the rest drifted around on the sea, lost and
alone.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hello, Brad. A lion! What a wonderful, symbolic companion!
#Post#: 1086--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paradise
DIR By: Kerry
Date: April 13, 2015, 2:28 pm
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--- Quote from: James link ---
>
> As Jesus says this day you will be in paradise with me and
Jesus was going to be put into the grave, I have always seen
that the thief would as it were make a three day journey with
Jesus into the realm of the dead and that when Jesus rose the
thief would join that great cloud of witnesses mentioned in
Hebrews .
>
> This is dependant on ones understanding of what This Day might
encompass.
--- End Quote ---
The cloud of witnesses is said to surround the saints who are
alive on the earth. Where are they? I think they may
resemble a pillar that reaches from Heaven to earth. When a
person is baptized, I think he's baptized into that "cloud of
witnesses" just as Israel is said to have been baptized in the
"cloud."
#Post#: 1088--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paradise
DIR By: Kerry
Date: April 13, 2015, 2:35 pm
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--- Quote from: Helen link ---
>
> Amen, good points in both posts.
>
> And I too like Kerry believe very much in The Garden...I have
been there once or twice in dreams and sat with my mother on the
banks of the river there...beautiful. Every time I felt it was
a 'God-dream', I had not been thinking of her or anything. I
believe that is where people are now....in the Garden..I don't
believe anyone dwells in heaven yet. We just understand what
people mean when they say- " Grandma is in Heaven"
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
I believe such experiences are granted to us to encourage us. .
. and to make us want to be with those we know are already
there.
I think some people may go to "Heaven" -- meaning the Third
Heaven -- but only if the Son of Man comes down and gets him and
takes him up.
#Post#: 1089--------------------------------------------------
Re: Paradise
DIR By: Kerry
Date: April 13, 2015, 2:43 pm
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--- Quote from: Poppy link ---
>
> I once had a God dream in which a voice kept telling me. "Go
back to the garden."
>
--- End Quote ---
This is interesting since it seems to mean you came from it.
--- Quote from: bradley link ---
>
> According to a dream I had, it was a garden on an Island
filled with people and animals who were friends to mankind. I
had a lion as my companion there. It was only filled with good
souls though, the rest drifted around on the sea, lost and
alone.
--- End Quote ---
It sounds like somewhere in Paradise to me. It also makes
sense to me that you could see lost souls in the sea just as
Lazarus could see the rich man.
The lion also suggests something to me, being one of the
cherubim.
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