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#Post#: 1358--------------------------------------------------
Re: what is the problem?
By: A nonny mouse Date: April 23, 2015, 3:22 am
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=120.msg1352#msg1352
date=1429753588]
I get confused when people talk about separation from God. Is
God everywhere? If He is everywhere, how could anyone be
separated from Him?
[/quote]
IMO God is the sovereign arbitrator of his relationship with man
(individually or corporately).....separate, distant, always
sitting on your shoulder, in anger, in love, etc.?
#Post#: 1364--------------------------------------------------
Re: what is the problem?
By: Kerry Date: April 23, 2015, 6:50 am
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[quote author=A Trusting Deist link=topic=120.msg1358#msg1358
date=1429777331]
IMO God is the sovereign arbitrator of his relationship with man
(individually or corporately).....separate, distant, always
sitting on your shoulder, in anger, in love, etc.?
[/quote]Is God everywhere or not then? ???
Is He the sole arbiter? I don't know about that either. It
seems to me God allows us to make decisions which He then
respects.
Psalm 18:26 With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with
the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward.
James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.
Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye
double minded.
Maybe if you think God is hiding from you it means you're like
Adam and Eve trying to hide from Him?
Sometimes people say hell is not a place but separation from
God. That also confounds me.
Psalm 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I
make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
#Post#: 1367--------------------------------------------------
Re: what is the problem?
By: HappyHeretic Date: April 23, 2015, 8:25 am
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Was it Arthur Wallis who said "At the heart of the human problem
is the problem of the human heart" ?
Does that help us get where you want us to be, Patrick?
Mike HM
#Post#: 1368--------------------------------------------------
Re: what is the problem?
By: Kerry Date: April 23, 2015, 8:48 am
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[quote author=HereticMouse link=topic=120.msg1367#msg1367
date=1429795555]
Was it Arthur Wallis who said "At the heart of the human problem
is the problem of the human heart" ?
Does that help us get where you want us to be, Patrick?
Mike HM
[/quote]This sounds right. After all, we read:
Genesis 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in
the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his
heart was only evil continually.
#Post#: 1372--------------------------------------------------
Re: what is the problem?
By: Piper Date: April 23, 2015, 1:40 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=120.msg1352#msg1352
date=1429753588]
I get confused when people talk about separation from God. Is
God everywhere? If He is everywhere, how could anyone be
separated from Him?
[/quote]
[font=trebuchet ms]We can "fall from grace" by doing something
that causes us to lose God's favor. For example, Jesus said in
Revelations that it is better to be "hot" or "cold". If we are
"lukewarm", He may "spit" us out of His mouth. I think
unrepented, habitual sin or mortal sin causes a fall from
grace, as well.
Didn't Adam and Eve cause the "fall" for which God expelled them
from the Garden?
No, if God is omnipresent, spirit, not taking up space but the
creator of it, then we live and move and breathe in Him. There
is nowhere we can go to escape His presence. Nothing can
separate us from His love, which always beckons, but I believe
we can lose His favor. He might, as Scripture puts it, "turn
His face away."
We want to be like Mary, who "found favor" with God.[/font]
#Post#: 1387--------------------------------------------------
Re: what is the problem?
By: Amadeus Date: April 23, 2015, 7:09 pm
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[quote]Patrick: John my friend ;
feel free to answer as you see fit
( as you can see ; i am not in a hurry with this topic )
i would rather go deep into this ; than give a quick answer
without pondering
i value your comments :) [/quote]
[font=courier]Thanks, Patrick,
I will look at my answer to Piper and see what else if anything
else occurs to me now.
[/font]
[quote]Amadeus: I did provide it in that the solution is God's
plan. God is not the author of confusion. But what do I mean?
Perhaps it is simply acknowledging and getting into the plan of
God as He wants us to be in it. That is complex, but at the same
time it is simple.[/quote]
[font=courier]It’s simple because to God it certainly is, while
for you or me or anyone without God’s help, it’s indiscernible.
When we work hard to figure it out, we too often come up blank
because God has either been left out of, or we have given Him
too small of a part of the whole equation. My use of the word
equation goes back to my early love (high school) of algebra. I
was good at algebra and enjoyed it then. To find God’s part
however isn’t like it was with algebra, at least not completely.
[/font]
[quote]Simply God's solution is Jesus. The details, however, may
seem complex if we try to explain them in detail. I won't say
more because as you say, this is Patrick's place.
I will say that, I believe, any one can find that solution with
or without regard to their connection or lack of a connection to
an organized church group.[/quote]
[font=courier]By anyone, I mean anyone who is able to get on the
right Pathway and God wants him/her to know the solution.
Part of the problem here even for some people who really are
believers in a measure is that they want the answer for the
wrong reason. As you read the verse 4:3 consider to whom James
addressed the entire book:
“James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the
twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers
temptations;” James 1:1-2
“Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may
consume it upon your lusts.” James 4:3
He was not speaking to unbelievers.
[/font]
[quote]The answer is in the vision that each believer must
have.[/quote]
[font=courier]
Shouldn’t our purpose really be to see more clearly, to approach
more closely to the “face to face” of I Cor 13:12?
“Where there is no vision, the people perish:..” Prov 29:18
What kind of a vision did nearly anyone in the OT have?
“And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man
see me, and live.” Ex 33:20
Yet earlier in the same chapter read these words:
“And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh
unto his friend… Ex 33:11
Obviously Moses could see but not as much as he would have liked
to see.
Is that difference similar to us seeing through a glass darkly
yet approaching (hopefully) the face to face here?
“For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face:
now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am
known.” I Cor 13:12
Certainly we have available a better vision than Moses did at
the time of Exodus chapter 33.
Perhaps the following words with regard to John the Baptist will
help…
“Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there
hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding
he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.”
Matt 11:11
And with regard to Abraham give us a clue as to the improved
vision made possible to men by Jesus:
“For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder
and maker is God.” Heb 11:10[/font]
#Post#: 1399--------------------------------------------------
Re: what is the problem?
By: Piper Date: April 24, 2015, 12:14 am
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[font=trebuchet ms]John,
Please explain the verse:[/font]
[font=courier]My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into
divers temptations;” James 1:1-2[/font]
#Post#: 1415--------------------------------------------------
Re: what is the problem?
By: Twinc Date: April 24, 2015, 7:48 am
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just look how we have complicated the simple simple original
gospel of simply simply believe as at Jn.20:31 which is here as
elsewhere proved as Jesus said almost simply simply impossible
for complicated adults - twinc
#Post#: 1417--------------------------------------------------
Re: what is the problem?
By: Amadeus Date: April 24, 2015, 8:25 am
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[quote author=Piper link=topic=120.msg1399#msg1399
date=1429852475]
[font=trebuchet ms]John,
Please explain the verse:[/font]
[font=courier]My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into
divers temptations;” James 1:1-2[/font]
[/quote]
[font=courier]Consider Jesus! He was without sin at all times,
but he had to overcome all of the things which are constantly
attracting men to sin:
"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the
lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father,
but is of the world.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that
doeth the will of God abideth for ever." I John 2:16-17
The world that is to pass away is the world into which each of
us is born when born to our natural mother. That will happen,
but we must do what Jesus did and that is to pursue each
temptation until it is gone from us, that is to say until it is
overcome.
For Jesus: "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye
might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be
of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33
Jesus overcame what? The world of his own flesh, which consists
of tribulations, which are brought about in and through our
struggles against "the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the
eyes, and the pride of life". Jesus started without sin and with
the Holy Spirit, but as a man of flesh he was incomplete because
he was not an overcomer when he was born to Mary. As per John
16:33 he became an overcomer. What he overcame is as per I John
2:16.
All of the battles between his own flesh and the will of the
Father were won and he was a complete overcomer ready to make a
Way for you and for me. So then as an overcomer, the sinless
complete sacrifice he paid the price after John 16:33 through
his sufferings and death.
When the Way was clear (Jesus had cleared it) for you and for me
to become overcomers then we were given access to what was
needed for us to become overcomers. What is it that we are to
overcome if not the "divers temptations" into which we are
frequently falling. Joy why? Joy because when we have overcome
all of them then we will be complete as Jesus was complete at
John 16:33.
Are not the rewards of an overcomer reasons for Joy?
"To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life,
which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7
"He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Rev
2:11
“To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna,
and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name
written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.” Rev
2:17
“And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to
him will I give power over the nations:
And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a
potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my
Father.
And I will give him the morning star.” Rev 2:26-28
“He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment;
and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I
will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.”
Rev 3:5
“Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my
God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the
name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new
Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I
will write upon him my new name.” Rev 3:12
“To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my
throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father
in his throne.” Rev 3:21[/font]
#Post#: 1427--------------------------------------------------
Re: what is the problem?
By: Piper Date: April 24, 2015, 11:07 am
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[font=trebuchet ms]Thank you, John. I appreciate, esp. the list
of verses which show why we should "count it all joy" to be
overcomers.
The wording tripped me up: I didn't know what "diverse
temptations" meant. Some bible versions say "many trials" which
is a bit easier to understand. It almost sounded like, "Be
joyful when temptations come your way" which seemed to conflict
with Jesus telling us to pray, "Lead us NOT into temptation."
All that talk of lust was difficult, too. Lust of the flesh,
lust of the eyes, and the pride of life." The TLB says it this
way:[/font]
[quote][center][font=arial]15 Stop loving this evil world and
all that it offers you, for when you love these things you show
that you do not really love God; 16 for all these worldly
things, these evil desires—the craze for sex, the ambition to
buy everything that appeals to you, and the pride that comes
from wealth and importance—these are not from God. They are from
this evil world itself.[/font][/center][/quote]
[font=trebuchet ms]I think you're using the KJV, which can still
be difficult for me at times (and impossible for Kevin!),
although I do think the language within it beautiful.
I think I understand: The trials in our life and each
temptation we successfully resist all strengthen us, helping us
to be counted as overcomers worthy of the "rewards" you listed.
Thanks. :)[/font]
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