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#Post#: 2527--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the World 'Looking Away'?
DIR By: Amadeus
Date: July 12, 2015, 9:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Piper link ---
>
> Amadeus,
> When I spoke of looking the other way (referring to the thread
title), until the fires are burning in our homeland, I meant
that it is easy (though not right) to ignore violence and
persecution until it begins to occur where we, ourselves, live.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
I know you referred to our homeland, meaning the United States,
but that is a foregone conclusion, an expected result. It is
like the kings that the people of Israel got both in the north
and in the south. They reaped what they sowed. Those who perhaps
did not really sow so badly still were unable to stop the
overwhelming tide of evil from overrunning them. Only the Ark of
Safety remains, but how many will even try to get aboard before
it is too late?
The match was not lit by God but by men who have allowed strange
fire within themselves to get the upper hand over the godly
inclinations they have known. Many who ventured too close are
also getting burned.
#Post#: 2528--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the World 'Looking Away'?
DIR By: Amadeus
Date: July 12, 2015, 9:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Kerry link ---
>
> I would say it was the "left hand" that confused the people at
the Tower of Babel. God (meaning the "right hand") is not the
author of confusion.
--- End Quote ---
At Babel and at so many other places up until today.
--- Quote ---
> I would ask myself if I might be an arrogant fool if I
believed Jesus was not working through others and needed me to
be "the only one" to speak or act on his behalf. I would
seriously doubt my own spiritual sanity if I began to believe
that Jesus stopped working through his servants nearly two
thousand years ago and that I was "the one" to establish a
church that failed so long ago. Ah yes, I agree. I'd
say the early Church wandered off into error quite early; but I
see God at work in it. The ones who were "grazed" in the
wilderness for forty years did not. They followed the Pillar
and obeyed Moses. Perhaps they were foolish in one way; but in
another way, they realized they lacked the spiritual discernment
that Moses had.
--- End Quote ---
God has always had a complete and infallible plan, I believe.
Everyone in one way or the other fits into that plan, but I also
believe that the exact part they take and the result that
applies to them is determined by their own choices.
--- Quote ---
> Does God judge the followers if they are misled by their
leaders? I don't think God does judge people that way, not
if they trust their leaders because of their faith in God. If
we have faith in God, we should believe God will provide the
right leaders for us. If they err, God will not punish the
people they misled. I believe He will reward them for trusting
in Him to provide leaders. Thus Jews were told not to try
to interpret the Law of Moses for themselves but to obey the
Sanhedrin. Jesus agreed with that.
--- End Quote ---
God understands all of the shades of difference in
understanding, belief and action on the part of every person. He
is not unfair, but how much does anyone other than God know
about what is fair and what is not? We are to obey those who
have been given the rule over us, but is there not boundary in
that? I would say, yes, but I cannot rarely if ever see
someone's boundary. My own? That is a complex question even
though I may know the answer to it.
What does Jesus mean when he says,"And if the blind lead the
blind, both shall fall into the DITCH."?
What exactly is the "ditch"?
It is not good, but is it necessarily the very worst of things?
--- Quote ---
> Most people do not have the time to study matters intensely at
length. Many (perhaps most) people should also realize and
accept gracefully that they are spiritually blind and deaf.
They cannot hear God themselves and need leaders. Now you have
seen at times I have made claims about receiving visions and
speaking personally with Jesus, Mary, and saints and angels. I
would not call myself spiritually blind or deaf; but I would be
worried about being self-deluded if I couldn't find other people
who agreed with what I received by spiritual means. If Heaven
reveals something to me, I suspect others have been told the
same thing before; so I will search to see if spiritual and
educated men before me have said something similar. I do not
trust my own judgment by itself.
--- End Quote ---
"I do not trust my own judgment by myself". And neither do I my
friend. Some people not understanding, I believe, just what the
Holy Ghost and what it isn't, make judgments as if they had all
of the perfect answers straight from God's mouth.
Each person who is or is to be a part of the Body of Christ have
a function as each part of our natural bodies have a function.
All of us are not experts in the workings of human anatomy.
Should we nor find our own function with God's help and work
well in it? The finger is important, but does it not go where
the arm takes it, and the arm where the body carries it?
--- Quote ---
> That was the Romans. They knew little of the Holy Spirit.
> Yes, but what about the people who said he had an unclean
spirit? The scribes who said he operated by Beelzebub?
>
> Now if they lacked the Holy Spirit when they said that, they
were driving the Spirit away by refusing to acknowledge it when
they saw it; and if they had it and accused Jesus falsely
because they feared losing their own authority or influence if
they acknowledged the Spirit in Jesus, then they were telling
the Spirit that was in them to go get lost. I lean to the
latter option. I think many of the Jewish leaders knew what was
what but feared a loss of their influence. I also believe if
you revile the Spirit when you know it's in someone else, you
can't have it in yourself for long. Reviling the Spirit in
ignorance is another matter.
--- End Quote ---
What we have and what we do with what we have in accordance with
our knowledge will accomplish a judgment for us. Ignorant people
who choose to remain in their ignorance will not be judged the
same as people who know something and in their knowledge act
wrongly.
The lukewarm are something that God spits out not because of
their ignorance but because their knowledge. Once a man gets
into knowledge and a path toward more knowledge, there should be
no reversing of direction nor stopping.
--- Quote ---
> Jesus said his sheep can hear his voice. Now if I follow a
false leader and find out later I was deceived when he goes down
in flames, that should tell me something about myself. I
shouldn't be angry at the false leader. I also shouldn't try to
justify him. I should ask myself why I wanted to believe in
him. What was wrong with me?
--- End Quote ---
To follow a false leader is to fall into a ditch with him. We
may be hurt, but we may also be helped toward something better
because we fell.
--- Quote ---
> It takes two to tango. We can't have false leaders without
having dubious followers of Christ who want
> their ears tickled more than to take up their crosses and to
follow him. It never ceases to amaze me when some
congregations rush to the defense of pastors when their sins
and crimes are revealed. It's as if they still want to be
deceived. The hymn goes "Revive us again," but they seem to be
singing, "Deceive us again." I tell you this: When I know I
have a weakness that made me want to be deceived and when I can
see how someone was clever enough to deceive me, I'm not about
to do that again. If he was clever enough to deceive me once, I
won't trust him again. Not at all. I don't have a grudge
about it. On the contrary, I am grateful in a way for it all.
God has just shown me how I could be deceived in the past.
It's sad that someone else had to take a fall to teach me; but I
took a fall too. Why can't the false pastors take their falls
and admit they're not real pastors? Why do they make a mockery
out of forgiveness, saying their congregations owe it to them to
forgive them and more than forgive -- to let them in power so
they have the opportunity to repeat things?
--- End Quote ---
Why can't the deceive person when he realizes he's been deceived
make the best of a bad thing? Why can't the fool when he
realizes he has been a fool make the best of a bad thing? Why is
a person willing to cheat others to satisfy his own lusts? Etc.?
At each point of understanding does God open up a better door
for us or does he insist that we continue down our pathway
toward or into a bottomless pit? Why do people continue to
choose the wrong way?
#Post#: 2529--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the World 'Looking Away'?
DIR By: Kerry
Date: July 13, 2015, 12:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Amadeus link ---
>
> God has always had a complete and infallible plan, I believe.
Everyone in one way or the other fits into that plan, but I also
believe that the exact part they take and the result that
applies to them is determined by their own choices.
--- End Quote ---
Yes, and some parts are interchangeable. A person can lose
his position without damaging God's plan too much since there is
almost always someone who can take his place.
--- Quote ---
> God understands all of the shades of difference in
understanding, belief and action on the part of every person. He
is not unfair, but how much does anyone other than God know
about what is fair and what is not? We are to obey those who
have been given the rule over us, but is there not boundary in
that? I would say, yes, but I cannot rarely if ever see
someone's boundary. My own? That is a complex question even
though I may know the answer to it.
--- End Quote ---
Yes, I'd say there is a boundary -- and I think that is doing
something known for certain to be wrong. There is no leader,
either secular or religious, whose lawful authority entitles him
to expect obedience when he orders men to do what both he and
they know to be wrong. Such a man has lost his lawful
authority and is no longer to be obeyed -- just as Pharaoh gave
away his God-given right to rule by his evil orders to murder
children and later to refuse Israel religious freedom. You
may have noted that it is not said that Moses "murdered" the
Egyptian. "Murder" would be killing someone by disobeying the
laws of legitimate lawful authority. Pharaoh's authority was
not legitimate then, so it is said only that Moses killed the
man.
--- Quote ---
> What does Jesus mean when he says,"And if the blind lead the
blind, both shall fall into the DITCH."?
>
> What exactly is the "ditch"?
>
> It is not good, but is it necessarily the very worst of
things?
--- End Quote ---
My first thought would be the grave where both would die as the
animals do.
Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men
befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one
dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so
that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Solomon goes on to ask a question:
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the
spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
Who knows? Indeed, who knows? The person who knows will
also know how to act in this life. When he dies, his spirit
will go up; but when those who do not know die, their spirit
will go downward to the earth.
--- Quote ---
> "I do not trust my own judgment by myself". And neither do I
my friend. Some people not understanding, I believe, just what
the Holy Ghost and what it isn't, make judgments as if they had
all of the perfect answers straight from God's mouth.
>
> Each person who is or is to be a part of the Body of Christ
have a function as each part of our natural bodies have a
function. All of us are not experts in the workings of human
anatomy. Should we nor find our own function with God's help and
work well in it? The finger is important, but does it not go
where the arm takes it, and the arm where the body carries it?
--- End Quote ---
And if everything is working right, the finger will know if
something is expected of it when the arm moves. The mind may
tell it to do something first, but then the finger will see how
the arm moves to make it possible.
--- Quote ---
> What we have and what we do with what we have in accordance
with our knowledge will accomplish a judgment for us. Ignorant
people who choose to remain in their ignorance will not be
judged the same as people who know something and in their
knowledge act wrongly.
--- End Quote ---
I'm not sure about this. I can see why people can be excused
for not knowing something; but if they could know it and choose
not to, aren't they trying to justify their sins by saying they
didn't know?
What does God do to get their attention then? I think He
sometimes put them in the same situation they chose to be
ignorant about. I believe if the world chooses to look away
from events in Syria, that may be choosing willful ignorance;
and maybe they will have to be put in the same position they are
now ignoring. When others ignore their suffering, perhaps then
they'll realize how wrong it is.
--- Quote ---
> To follow a false leader is to fall into a ditch with him. We
may be hurt, but we may also be helped toward something better
because we fell.
>
> Why can't the deceive person when he realizes he's been
deceived make the best of a bad thing? Why can't the fool when
he realizes he has been a fool make the best of a bad thing? Why
is a person willing to cheat others to satisfy his own lusts?
Etc.? At each point of understanding does God open up a better
door for us or does he insist that we continue down our pathway
toward or into a bottomless pit? Why do people continue to
choose the wrong way?
--- End Quote ---
I believe people have almost countless opportunities to change
for the better. We have all made mistakes, and what I see is
that some people learn from their mistakes while others are too
stubborn.
There is a type of hardening of the heart which seems to involve
thinking that changing one's mind is admitting failure. This
type of person would rather go to destruction than admit he was
wrong about something. He says to others, "I'll prove to you
I'm right" even when he knows he's wrong. In his mind, this
seems to be equated to "being free" to do as he pleases; but in
my opinion, it's being enslaved by his past decisions.
#Post#: 2530--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the World 'Looking Away'?
DIR By: Amadeus
Date: July 13, 2015, 1:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Kerry link ---
>
> Yes, and some parts are interchangeable. A person can
lose his position without damaging God's plan too much since
there is almost always someone who can take his place.
--- End Quote ---
Yes, no one is irreplaceable.
--- Quote ---
> Yes, I'd say there is a boundary -- and I think that is doing
something known for certain to be wrong. There is no leader,
either secular or religious, whose lawful authority entitles him
to expect obedience when he orders men to do what both he and
they know to be wrong. Such a man has lost his lawful
authority and is no longer to be obeyed -- just as Pharaoh gave
away his God-given right to rule by his evil orders to murder
children and later to refuse Israel religious freedom.
--- End Quote ---
Agreed!
--- Quote ---
>
> You may have noted that it is not said that Moses "murdered"
the Egyptian. "Murder" would be killing someone by disobeying
the laws of legitimate lawful authority. Pharaoh's authority
was not legitimate then, so it is said only that Moses killed
the man.
--- End Quote ---
While I had not thought of it in that sense, it does fit,
doesn't it? In God's eyes it is not murder to render proper and
timely judgment. The "proper" would of course a given person's
authority to accomplish the judgment... in this case: killing.
Can a person miss the mark on this without destroying himself or
his own hopes? I would have to answer: sometimes.
--- Quote ---
> My first thought would be the grave where both would die as
the animals do.
>
> Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men
befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one
dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so
that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
--- End Quote ---
Yes, at least the natural grave, but here lies the problem in
rendering against one who followed a man into the ditch: One
follower may be as you might have put it, innocently ignorant,
while another, also ignorant, need not have remained ignorant.
How much fault is to be laid on the one who could have improved
himself in understanding but did not? The reasons he chose not
to must be considered. It really can get too deep to be fair if
we have less than the knowledge and perception of God.
--- Quote ---
> Solomon goes on to ask a question:
>
> 21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the
spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
>
> Who knows? Indeed, who knows? The person who knows will
also know how to act in this life. When he dies, his spirit
will go up; but when those who do not know die, their spirit
will go downward to the earth. And if everything is
working right, the finger will know if something is expected of
it when the arm moves. The mind may tell it to do something
first, but then the finger will see how the arm moves to make it
possible. I'm not sure about this. I can see why people
can be excused for not knowing something; but if they could know
it and choose not to, aren't they trying to justify their sins
by saying they didn't know?
--- End Quote ---
The body of the natural man is imperfect, but usually in most
people, most of the time, the finger obeys the mind. In the Body
of Christ, is there, or will there be before the end, such
imperfection so that we could not remove such words as:
imperfect, usually, most, etc. from our description?
--- Quote ---
> What does God do to get their attention then? I think He
sometimes put them in the same situation they chose to be
ignorant about. I believe if the world chooses to look away
from events in Syria, that may be choosing willful ignorance;
and maybe they will have to be put in the same position they are
now ignoring. When others ignore their suffering, perhaps then
they'll realize how wrong it is.
> I believe people have almost countless opportunities to change
for the better. We have all made mistakes, and what I see is
that some people learn from their mistakes while others are too
stubborn.
--- End Quote ---
I agree. Look again to the natural body of a person. It is
difficult, if not impossible, for all of the other body parts to
ignore a serious injury to one part. If one pinky finger of one
hand is crushed in a metal crushing press, the remainder of the
body, the other hand and the mouth in particular will likely be
instructed by the brain to render whatever aid is available.
People (specialized soldiers come to mind) can be and are
trained or train themselves to work through pain until a given
task is accomplished in spite of serious even life-threatening
injuries they have received. The natural person will not usually
easily ignore his own pain and suffering for long. To do this
because it will help someone else may be done, but it is not
easy.
To bring ourselves or to be brought to the place where the body
to be consider first is not our natural body, but the body of
people (e.g. military group [platoon]) is something that any one
paying attention will notice. Is this not to be the Way of the
Body of Christ? How indeed can God get our attention when
another person (potential or actual member with us in the Body
of Christ) needs our help to accomplish God's purpose, which
help will cost the helper perhaps his physical life? Some would
certainly do it for a close natural family member, but to do it
for someone unknown to us would require what? Perhaps a
connection with God via the Holy Ghost will make it possible to
hear God voicing His will on the matter, but even if we hear it,
will we do it? Does the following verse tell us how to be ready
to obey Him even in seemingly impossibly difficult situations?
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness;
and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33
If our mistake has been that we disobeyed God, when we knew His
will for us for a matter, will He give us another chance for our
own sake? How many times can we tell God, no, and still be given
another opportunity to do or make it right?
I am unable to count the number of mistakes I have made in my
lifetime, when I knew, or should have known better. I do not
believe that I have been finally rejected by God, but I do
believe that such a rejection is still possible if I push too
hard my own way and/or presume too much on God's mercy.
--- Quote ---
> There is a type of hardening of the heart which seems to
involve thinking that changing one's mind is admitting failure.
This type of person would rather go to destruction than admit
he was wrong about something. He says to others, "I'll prove
to you I'm right" even when he knows he's wrong. In his mind,
this seems to be equated to "being free" to do as he pleases;
but in my opinion, it's being enslaved by his past decisions.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, there is also this. Perhaps pride enters into this type of
situation if it is not the actual cause:
"Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a
fall." Prov 16:18
#Post#: 2531--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the World 'Looking Away'?
DIR By: Kerry
Date: July 14, 2015, 11:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Amadeus link ---
>
> While I had not thought of it in that sense, it does fit,
doesn't it? In God's eyes it is not murder to render proper and
timely judgment. The "proper" would of course a given person's
authority to accomplish the judgment... in this case: killing.
Can a person miss the mark on this without destroying himself or
his own hopes? I would have to answer: sometimes.
--- End Quote ---
I agree. It's easy to miss the mark when we take justice into
our own hands. The temptation is to be biased in our own
favor. In the case of Moses, however, note that when he
intervenes, it's not always for himself or his family or even
for Israel.
Jewish tradition has more of the story about the killing of the
Egyptian. It says the Egyptian was hitting the Israelite,
telling him to go to work. The Israelite did not want to go
because he knew the Egyptian would rape his wife once he went
to work. The government did not exist to protect everyone,
let alone the Israelites. If a government official wanted to
rape your wife, you let him. If that rabbinical story is true,
you can see how there was no real legitimate government since
Pharoah's government was out to serve him and the ruling class.
It wouldn't surprise me if that story is true since the story
is in the Bible about how the midwives of Israel were to kill
male babies; and Exodus approves of their disobedience.
Moses was equally outraged at how the men were treating Jethro's
daughters. There again, there was no real law and order so
Moses intervened. There's more to that story too in the
rabbinical literature which says the other men hated Jethro
because he was not an idolater like them. Moses did not know
who any of these people were when he intervened -- he just saw
men refusing to allow the women to have water. Since there was
no law and order, Moses acted.
--- Quote ---
> Yes, at least the natural grave, but here lies the problem in
rendering against one who followed a man into the ditch: One
follower may be as you might have put it, innocently ignorant,
while another, also ignorant, need not have remained ignorant.
How much fault is to be laid on the one who could have improved
himself in understanding but did not? The reasons he chose not
to must be considered. It really can get too deep to be fair if
we have less than the knowledge and perception of God.
--- End Quote ---
I think such things are often judged by their results. If
someone tried to mislead you and did for a while but you had
your eyes opened and stopped following him, he would not be
punished for misleading you; but if you had spread his lies and
misled others, he would held accountable in part for them and so
would you. He's not off the hook for his actions until there's
no one left being misled by the lies he started. The spiritual
urge will be for him to return to help try to resolve the
problems he helped create. Man was formed out of the dirt, and
he returns to it -- but is that permanent? I don't think it
is. If we fall into the ditch, I think we are given more
chances to learn how to avoid falling into it. We read, for
example, that Israel was struck with blindness -- but this is
part of God's plan -- and all Israel will be saved.
In a way, I think "man" is being included here:
Genesis 8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest,
and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night
shall not cease.
Compare that language to:
Mark 4:23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that
hear shall more be given.
25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath
not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.
26 And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should
cast seed into the ground;
27 And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should
spring and grow up, he knoweth not how.
28 For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the
blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.
29 But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth
in the sickle, because the harvest is come.
The tares may be burned; but that's a way of returning to "dust
and ashes." The seeds of the tares are prevented from
sprouting again; but the ashes can become new life in the next
season.
--- Quote ---
> The body of the natural man is imperfect, but usually in most
people, most of the time, the finger obeys the mind. In the Body
of Christ, is there, or will there be before the end, such
imperfection so that we could not remove such words as:
imperfect, usually, most, etc. from our description?
--- End Quote ---
It is a work in progress; and I say it is impossible for any one
person or even any one group of people to find complete and
eternal rest of perfection until all mankind finds it. Can I
find perfection for myself if I have caused my brother to
stumble, if I have contributed in some way to encouraging
imperfection in him?
--- Quote ---
> I agree. Look again to the natural body of a person. It is
difficult, if not impossible, for all of the other body parts to
ignore a serious injury to one part. If one pinky finger of one
hand is crushed in a metal crushing press, the remainder of the
body, the other hand and the mouth in particular will likely be
instructed by the brain to render whatever aid is available.
People (specialized soldiers come to mind) can be and are
trained or train themselves to work through pain until a given
task is accomplished in spite of serious even life-threatening
injuries they have received. The natural person will not usually
easily ignore his own pain and suffering for long. To do this
because it will help someone else may be done, but it is not
easy.
--- End Quote ---
We humans have to learn how to love our neighbors as ourselves
-- ultimately all mankind can operate in harmony.
I believe marriage is often the first step to learning this.
Thus the male-and-female adam was divided so the two parts could
learn to love. If children follow, the parents can learn to
take care of them. This should widen then to caring about
people in our groups -- nations, tribes, etc. Then it comes to
include all humanity -- and then all living creatures. The
commandment to love each other exists at various levels. If we
love people of our own religion, while it is a good thing to
love them, it can lead to sin if we allow ourselves to believe
loving them means hating other people of other religions. It
ceases to be love but becomes partiality or favoritism -- the
way parents sometimes show partiality towards their children,
wanting to defend them even when they're behaving like monsters.
Indeed, I argue that parents can help make their children into
monsters by being "overly protective" when they know their
children are wrong.
I see something similar going on with the Daesh or ISIS people.
Their view seems to be that anyone who doesn't agree with
their narrow interpretations of Islam should be killed; and some
may even believe they are killing people who threaten "true
religion" and "decent moral values."
Let us remember that where the Daesh has power, at least in
Iraq, are Sunni areas where the people felt oppressed by the
ruling Shia. Let us also remember that the USA allowed, even
encouraged, this in some ways.
--- Quote ---
> To bring ourselves or to be brought to the place where the
body to be consider first is not our natural body, but the body
of people (e.g. military group ) is something that any one
paying attention will notice. Is this not to be the Way of the
Body of Christ? How indeed can God get our attention when
another person (potential or actual member with us in the Body
of Christ) needs our help to accomplish God's purpose, which
help will cost the helper perhaps his physical life? Some would
certainly do it for a close natural family member, but to do it
for someone unknown to us would require what? Perhaps a
connection with God via the Holy Ghost will make it possible to
hear God voicing His will on the matter, but even if we hear it,
will we do it? Does the following verse tell us how to be ready
to obey Him even in seemingly impossibly difficult situations?
>
> "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness;
and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33
--- End Quote ---
I would guess such discernment in difficult situations evolves
over time as the result of obeying the Voice of God in easier
matters.
--- Quote ---
> If our mistake has been that we disobeyed God, when we knew
His will for us for a matter, will He give us another chance for
our own sake? How many times can we tell God, no, and still be
given another opportunity to do or make it right?
--- End Quote ---
Some sins have no forgiveness in this life. That does not mean
they cannot be forgiven however.
I believe Abraham's children had to make bricks in Egypt
because they disobeyed in the matter of the Tower of Babel when
they wanted to make bricks. To me, it's the same people.
Those who wished to do better took their medicine and went into
bondage in Egypt while others who did not want to take their
medicine increased in wickedness. At the Tower of Babel, men
took the idea of "self-sacrifice" too far -- and they wanted to
believe they could break into Heaven by sacrificing their
uniqueness as men. We see governments today who encourage this
kind of uniformity in its citizens; and there are still people
who believe sacrificing or denying the uniqueness of the
individual is the way to achieve peace. This is a slave
mentality; and the Israelites in Egypt had a bad case of it.
Even after they left, they wanted to return to slavery.
I believe they helped correct a lot of the bad situations they
had created for others. They knew they wouldn't enter the Land
of Promise and accepted that fate; but they didn't return to
Egypt. It seems that the parents knew they had the slave
mentality but wanted something better for their children.
--- Quote ---
> I am unable to count the number of mistakes I have made in my
lifetime, when I knew, or should have known better. I do not
believe that I have been finally rejected by God, but I do
believe that such a rejection is still possible if I push too
hard my own way and/or presume too much on God's mercy.
--- End Quote ---
The danger lies in the possibility of God saying, "Have it your
way then".
--- Quote ---
> Yes, there is also this. Perhaps pride enters into this type
of situation if it is not the actual cause:
>
> "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before
a fall." Prov 16:18
--- End Quote ---
Aye, and I think sometimes how we treat others can provoke them
into taking a proud stance. I don't think trying to humiliate
people as a way of getting them to change works. When we try
to shame others, it seems to me it often makes them become
defensive and then they can go into acting proud. If someone
is already feeling bad about their past actions, why not try to
show them a way to feel better about things in the future?
#Post#: 2548--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the World 'Looking Away'?
DIR By: Piper
Date: July 16, 2015, 11:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> Kerry: If you ask me, they don't believe in any God at all.
They seem to hate anything and everything and want to kill and
destroy things.
>
--- End Quote ---
The stories that keep surfacing are horrendous.
Pray.
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