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#Post#: 10511--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bury expelled from the EFL
DIR By: flipmode
Date: August 28, 2019, 6:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I also disagree wholeheartedly with the notion that local PL
clubs, or those from afar, should help Bury/Bolton/others in
this situation.
This is a systemic failing on a whole number of levels. From
poor decision making on Bury's part, with numerous owners making
bad investment/mortgage decisions which severely impacted the
sustainability of the club, to the EFL in letting this absolute
fraudster pass the fit and proper persons test and get his hands
anywhere near Bury.
I do not, and never will subscribe to the idea that my club,
Manchester City, should have bailed them out. Back in the mid to
late 90s when City were in Divisions One and Two, it was the
30K+ fans who turned up week in, week out to watch utter dross
that stopped the club from going under. We spent way over our
means that season to get out of Division Two and had it not been
for that Dickov goal at Wembley in '99, I am of the firm belief
that ADUG would not have Manchester City in their business
portfolio today.
For me it's the people and the community who suffer most. Clubs
like Bury are one of the biggest sources of employment in the
local community and without that now, you really do wonder how
Bury as a whole, not just the club, will survive.
#Post#: 10513--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bury expelled from the EFL
DIR By: bmb
Date: August 28, 2019, 6:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Maybe the time has come for potential owners to have to put x
funds into a pot before they get passed fit & proper that can
then be used to bail out that club in this sort of scenario.
Like a deposit.
#Post#: 10515--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bury expelled from the EFL
DIR By: Hertsref123
Date: August 28, 2019, 6:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: flipmode link ---
>
> I also disagree wholeheartedly with the notion that local PL
clubs, or those from afar, should help Bury/Bolton/others in
this situation.
> This is a systemic failing on a whole number of levels. From
poor decision making on Bury's part, with numerous owners making
bad investment/mortgage decisions which severely impacted the
sustainability of the club, to the EFL in letting this absolute
fraudster pass the fit and proper persons test and get his hands
anywhere near Bury.
>
> I do not, and never will subscribe to the idea that my club,
Manchetser City, should have bailed them out. Back in the mid to
late 90s when City were in Divisions One and Two, it was the
30K+ fans who turned up week in, week out to watch utter dross
that stopped the club from going under. We spent way over our
means that season to get out of Division Two and had it not been
for that Dickov goal at Wembley in '99, I am of the firm belief
that ADUG would not have Manchester City in their business
portfolio today.
>
> For me it's the people and the community who suffer most.
Clubs like Bury are one of the biggest sources of employment in
the local community and without that now, you really do wonder
how Bury as a whole, not just the club, will survive.
>
--- End Quote ---
This.
#Post#: 10518--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bury expelled from the EFL
DIR By: TVOS
Date: August 28, 2019, 7:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately, there is a lot of point-missing around what has
happened to Bury.
On the Rochdale forum there is a thread that is now over 240
pages long. It was started about six years ago when Stewart Day
came in as owner/Chairman and our interest was piqued as Bury
are a local rival and a divisional rival.
So much didn't add up about this man and every time Bury signed
a player like Tom Pope or James Vaughan or Chris Maguire, paying
them a reported £5,000 per week or more, there were questions on
the Rochdale forum about where was the money coming from.
Day then started coming out with even more extreme schemes. He
was going to build an aparthotel at the ground; he was going to
hold a summer music festival (BL9 Weekender) on the pitch; he
came up with a car park scheme where people could buy a car park
space for £10,000 and earn money when it was rented out.
There will be many more things I've forgotten.
All the while, Rochdale fans were pointing out that these
schemes were pie in the sky and "The Chur", as he became known,
was a fraudster.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of Bury supporters wouldn't
have it. They thought he was the real deal and took it all in.
"Enjoy The Ride" became their motto, while the club put out
messages like "Wow! Wow! Wow!" every time they signed another
new player on £5,000 per week.
Any Bury fans who did question it - and they were a tiny
minority - were immediately shot down by the rest. They were
even censored from asking questions at fans forums by Day's
henchmen and acolytes in the crowd.
All the while we kept telling them they were being had, but they
wouldn't listen.
Even their supporters organisation handed over their shares in
the club to Day. They left themselves with no semblance of
control or ability to affect anything.
It was clear from the off to those with a modicum of commonsense
that Day was a conman and Steve Dale was an asset stripper. Dale
has become the big bad wolf (or bear) in all of this, but the
main protagonist was Day and those who believed everything he
said.
If the more influential Bury fans had listened and tried to
intervene sooner - just look at Blackpool fans, for example -
this situation might not have arisen. As it is, most of them
"enjoyed the ride" and are now crying to the wider football
world about the situation.
Meanwhile, other clubs - and I obviously have more knowledge of
my own - have constantly tried to do things the right way and
within our budgets.
We have sold players to pay bills, sold players to keep the club
solvent (Grant Holt, Rickie Lambert, Craig Dawson, Scott Hogan,
Daniel Adshead, Adam Le Fondre, Glenn Murray, et al), brought
through our own youngsters, developed the ground, created an
Academy system, and so on.
We have signed free transfers and 'broken toys' from elsewhere
and rewarded players for their contributions to our success with
wage rises while they are still at the club, rather than
tempting them away from elsewhere with five figure monthly
salaries.
Accrington Stanley are another excellent example of a club run
in this way and there will be others. I'm thinking Burton Albion
and Shrewsbury Town for starters.
Unfortunately, Bury fans have the mentality that they are a
"famous old club" who has won the FA Cup twice and whose
rightful level is outside the bottom two divisions. A lot of
them really do live on fantasy island, so when a conman comes
along promising them all sorts, they fall for it because they
think they deserve it and that he really loves "Berry Football
Club".
But this isn't the first time. They have been in administration
before and had another owner in the 1990s who was proven to be a
fraudster and a conman. They lapped him up to begin with as
well.
I know a small number of Bury supporters and I feel for them at
this moment. However, the vast majority of them sat by and did
nothing while Gigg Lane burned. And they know it!
#Post#: 10519--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bury expelled from the EFL
DIR By: TVOS
Date: August 28, 2019, 7:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: flipmode link ---
>
> I also disagree wholeheartedly with the notion that local PL
clubs, or those from afar, should help Bury/Bolton/others in
this situation.
> This is a systemic failing on a whole number of levels. From
poor decision making on Bury's part, with numerous owners making
bad investment/mortgage decisions which severely impacted the
sustainability of the club, to the EFL in letting this absolute
fraudster pass the fit and proper persons test and get his hands
anywhere near Bury.
>
> I do not, and never will subscribe to the idea that my club,
Manchester City, should have bailed them out. Back in the mid to
late 90s when City were in Divisions One and Two, it was the
30K+ fans who turned up week in, week out to watch utter dross
that stopped the club from going under. We spent way over our
means that season to get out of Division Two and had it not been
for that Dickov goal at Wembley in '99, I am of the firm belief
that ADUG would not have Manchester City in their business
portfolio today.
>
> For me it's the people and the community who suffer most.
Clubs like Bury are one of the biggest sources of employment in
the local community and without that now, you really do wonder
how Bury as a whole, not just the club, will survive.
>
--- End Quote ---
Clubs like Bury aren't the biggest source of employment in the
local community. There is a massive brand new shopping centre
that will employ double their staff, not to mention the market,
schools, colleges, etc.
I agree with you about PL clubs not bailing them out. Bury need
to look at models used elsewhere and start living in the real
world.
#Post#: 10520--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bury expelled from the EFL
DIR By: bmb
Date: August 28, 2019, 7:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Very informative TVOS. Lot there regarding more detailed ins and
outs that I didn't know about & I suspect the vast majority
outside of area don't either.
--- Quote from: TVOS link ---
>
> Day then started coming out with even more extreme schemes. He
was going to build an aparthotel at the ground; he was going to
hold a summer music festival (BL9 Weekender) on the pitch; he
came up with a car park scheme where people could buy a car park
space for £10,000 and earn money when it was rented out.
>
--- End Quote ---
Sounds like a grandiose Eddie Mitchell without the swearing!
#Post#: 10527--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bury expelled from the EFL
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: August 28, 2019, 10:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I understand that Bury are the first club from outside of the
bottom tier to be expelled from the EFL. The EFL Chief Executive
was talking this afternoon on the BBC TV news about trying to
introduce a cap on wages in the EFL. This might work but it
would certainly widen the gap between the 'have-s' in the PL
(where there will be no such cap) and the 'have-nots' away from
the top table. And do the players in the EFL earn anything like
the money that is paid to those in the PL? I think not. Thank
you TVOS for your very informative comments. A sorry state of
affairs indeed.
#Post#: 10529--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bury expelled from the EFL
DIR By: bmb
Date: August 28, 2019, 10:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Acme Thunderer link ---
>
> I understand that Bury are the first club from outside of the
bottom tier to be expelled from the EFL. The EFL Chief Executive
was talking this afternoon on the BBC TV news about trying to
introduce a cap on wages in the EFL. This might work but it
would certainly widen the gap between the 'have-s' in the PL
(where there will be no such cap) and the 'have-nots' away from
the top table. And do the players in the EFL earn anything like
the money that is paid to those in the PL? I think not. Thank
you TVOS for your very informative comments. A sorry state of
affairs indeed.
>
--- End Quote ---
This is where it also shows up FFP to be a farce, imo. AFCB
certainly had wage caps up to and including the first season in
the PL - £35,000/week. Could have paid more due to the amount
of money the owner was prepared to pay in & he offered to lodge
it in a separate account to provide funds for the club in the
event of anything as the above but was not allowed to do so by
the FL. He put it in a seperate account anyway so it was there
"in case of". Clubs with bigger grounds were able to pay more
wages than we were but didn't necessarily have the means to pay
them, we had the means to pay but were restricted by the size of
the ground & therefore a smaller % of gate receipts. Clubs who
were on parachute payments had a whole different sets of rules
due to that money coming in. There will never be a wage cap
because it might upset the prima donnas!
FFP does not protect clubs from overspending is my point!
*Yes I am aware that AFCB broke the FFP the season they got
promoted from the championship & even with that breech our wages
were still only in the mid of the wage table & nowhere near the
top of it. We paid the fine immediately unlike whoever else it
was QPR(?) because it was part of the money the owner had set
aside that he had not been allowed to spend!
#Post#: 10531--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bury expelled from the EFL
DIR By: QuoCob
Date: August 28, 2019, 10:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Wage capping is never enforceable, player will receive money
from other sponsored sources not listed as salary/wages.
#Post#: 10532--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bury expelled from the EFL
DIR By: TVOS
Date: August 28, 2019, 10:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Acme Thunderer link ---
>
> I understand that Bury are the first club from outside of the
bottom tier to be expelled from the EFL. The EFL Chief Executive
was talking this afternoon on the BBC TV news about trying to
introduce a cap on wages in the EFL. This might work but it
would certainly widen the gap between the 'have-s' in the PL
(where there will be no such cap) and the 'have-nots' away from
the top table. And do the players in the EFL earn anything like
the money that is paid to those in the PL? I think not. Thank
you TVOS for your very informative comments. A sorry state of
affairs indeed.
>
--- End Quote ---
Actually, I should have added your goodselves at Gresty Road
into the 'well run clubs'. Certainly the Crewe model is one
we've tried to replicate at Spotland.
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