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#Post#: 10690--------------------------------------------------
Re: 1st ruled out goal by VAR in PL
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: September 2, 2019, 7:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> Sometimes the authorities can't win. There were people on
here that were highly critical of how VAR was being used, such
as in the World Cup when it was being used to spot the most
minor of contact almost invisible to the naked eye to give
penalties. The FA / PGMOL have said they won't do that and that
the bar will be set high, with only very obviously incorrect
decisions being changed. That does mean that it has to
effectively be an absolute clanger of a decision to get
overturned by VAR, and I would rather the bar be a little lower,
but would much rather this than VAR taking 5 minutes to spot for
minor contact.
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree with much of this.
Let's remember the situation when VAR was first introduced.
Decisions were being regularly changed that no one was
expecting. Remember the Spurs V Rochdale or Liverpool V West
Brom games when we were having multiple delays of several
minutes whilst they forensically poured over minor details and
sometimes came to decisions most people didn't agree with (e.g.
disallowing the Spurs goal V Rochdale.)
Remember the reaction in the women's world cup when the game was
regularly being held up for four or five minutes whilst the
officials looked at over a dozen replays before deciding to
change a decision.
I don't think that they have yet struck the right balance and
VAR should have intervened more than it has done in practice but
I don't think their approach in theory is that far wrong. Mike
Riley has always said that he thinks VAR should be introduced
for the scandalous decisions, the ones where everyone can tell
in seconds apart from the referee that it's wrong and no other
decision can be defended.
#Post#: 10694--------------------------------------------------
Re: 1st ruled out goal by VAR in PL
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: September 2, 2019, 9:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Two decisions from yesterday's PL games:
An Arsenal 3rd goal ruled out for offside via VAR. Tight but
correct and decision accepted
Everton 2nd goal looked offside but given via VAR - again tight
but decision accepted.
That to my mind is why we now need and have VAR in the PL.
#Post#: 10695--------------------------------------------------
Re: 1st ruled out goal by VAR in PL
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: September 2, 2019, 9:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Acme Thunderer link ---
>
> Two decisions from yesterday's PL games:
>
> An Arsenal 3rd goal ruled out for offside via VAR. Tight but
correct and decision accepted
>
> Everton 2nd goal looked offside but given via VAR - again
tight but decision accepted.
>
> That to my mind is why we now need and have VAR in the PL.
>
--- End Quote ---
Well I agree, although worth emphasising that the assistant made
the correct decision in both cases on the pitch.
#Post#: 10701--------------------------------------------------
Re: 1st ruled out goal by VAR in PL
DIR By: bmb
Date: September 2, 2019, 10:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> I don't think that they have yet struck the right balance and
VAR should have intervened more than it has done in practice but
I don't think their approach in theory is that far wrong. Mike
Riley has always said that he thinks VAR should be introduced
for the scandalous decisions, the ones where everyone can tell
in seconds apart from the referee that it's wrong and no other
decision can be defended.
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree the right balance has not yet been found and it is in
its infant phase so will be continually tweaked, whether the
tweaking makes it more or less efficient/useful is of course
open to interpretation & personal views!
What I don't agree with is how Mike Riley said it will be used
(for the scandalous decisions, the ones where everyone can tell
in seconds apart from the referee that it's wrong and no other
decision can be defended) not because I don't think that should
be the main focus, quite the opposite but because for me right
now that seems to be more where it is failing than where it is
working!
#Post#: 10702--------------------------------------------------
Re: 1st ruled out goal by VAR in PL
DIR By: QuoCob
Date: September 2, 2019, 10:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> [quote author=Acme Thunderer link=topic=933.msg10694#msg10694
date=1567435595]
> Two decisions from yesterday's PL games:
>
> An Arsenal 3rd goal ruled out for offside via VAR. Tight but
correct and decision accepted
>
> Everton 2nd goal looked offside but given via VAR - again
tight but decision accepted.
>
> That to my mind is why we now need and have VAR in the PL.
>
--- End Quote ---
Well I agree, although worth emphasising that the assistant made
the correct decision in both cases on the pitch.
[/quote]
Agreed, and it's easy when the decision is offside/not offside
(well done to the two ARs by the way) but it's when
interpretation and opinion is introduced, the problems start.
#Post#: 10704--------------------------------------------------
Re: 1st ruled out goal by VAR in PL
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: September 2, 2019, 11:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: QuoCob link ---
>
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=933.msg10695#msg10695
date=1567435852]
> [quote author=Acme Thunderer link=topic=933.msg10694#msg10694
date=1567435595]
> Two decisions from yesterday's PL games:
>
> An Arsenal 3rd goal ruled out for offside via VAR. Tight but
correct and decision accepted
>
> Everton 2nd goal looked offside but given via VAR - again
tight but decision accepted.
>
> That to my mind is why we now need and have VAR in the PL.
>
--- End Quote ---
Well I agree, although worth emphasising that the assistant made
the correct decision in both cases on the pitch.
[/quote]
Agreed, and it's easy when the decision is offside/not offside
(well done to the two ARs by the way) but it's when
interpretation and opinion is introduced, the problems start.
[/quote]
But that is why the PL have largely stayed away from intervening
with interpretation/opinion calls, which is being considered by
some a problem in itself.
#Post#: 10705--------------------------------------------------
Re: 1st ruled out goal by VAR in PL
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: September 2, 2019, 11:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: QuoCob link ---
>
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=933.msg10695#msg10695
date=1567435852]
> [quote author=Acme Thunderer link=topic=933.msg10694#msg10694
date=1567435595]
> Two decisions from yesterday's PL games:
>
> An Arsenal 3rd goal ruled out for offside via VAR. Tight but
correct and decision accepted
>
> Everton 2nd goal looked offside but given via VAR - again
tight but decision accepted.
>
> That to my mind is why we now need and have VAR in the PL.
>
--- End Quote ---
Well I agree, although worth emphasising that the assistant made
the correct decision in both cases on the pitch.
[/quote]
Agreed, and it's easy when the decision is offside/not offside
(well done to the two ARs by the way) but it's when
interpretation and opinion is introduced, the problems start.
[/quote]
This is why there will always be problems with VAR because all
it is doing is introducing interpretation and opinion because it
is operated by human beings and none of us can resist giving our
own opinion or interpretation.
Basically we are saying that you need more than 4 officials to
administer a football match ---but only at the highest levels!
My question is--How much has the game changed to justify this.
We still have only 11 players per side on the field, they just
use one ball and, in spite of some changes in the Laws over the
years there is nothing which has drastically changed.
We used to have 3 officials who managed very well. The
introduction of a fourth official was probably necessary with
more substitutions being allowed and clubs having many more
staff on the touchline who need to be controlled.
In the Premier League now we are looking at 6 officials to look
after a game which used to manage with 3 and the sad thing is
that, apart from many of us who have done the job, the majority
of fans just think that the onfield officials are rubbish and
that their mates who are running the VAR will just go along
with them anyway.
At the end of the day it is a game to be enjoyed by those
playing, those officiating and those people who pay good money
to support their teams. I don't really think that the
introduction of VAR is making the game less enjoyable for all
concerned.
#Post#: 10723--------------------------------------------------
Re: 1st ruled out goal by VAR in PL
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: September 2, 2019, 1:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"........ I don't really think that the introduction of VAR is
making the game less enjoyable for all concerned."
Oops----it should have said ---I don't really think that the
introduction of VAR is making the game MORE enjoyable for all
concerned.
#Post#: 10728--------------------------------------------------
Re: 1st ruled out goal by VAR in PL
DIR By: bruntyboy
Date: September 2, 2019, 6:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> Dermot Gallagher was on SSN earlier.
>
> Regarding the Watford V West Ham penalty appeal, he said he
thought it should have been a penalty and he thought VAR should
have intervened.
>
> Regarding Leicester V Bournemouth, he said he thought it
should have been a red card but he had spoken to plenty of
people who didn't think it was so he thought VAR was right not
to intervene.
>
> Regarding Newcastle V Watford, he said that the goal should
have been disallowed but Craig Pawson hadn't seen the handball,
whether because he'd felt under pressure to complete the check
too quickly or because he hadn't seen the relevant angle.
Gallagher said VARs would be encouraged to take an extra 10 or
15 seconds if needed to complete a check and ensure they had
gone through the whole checklist of possible offences.
>
> Regarding Palace V Aston Villa, he said he didn't think it was
simulation but he didn't think it was a penalty (I would suggest
the kind of compromise Microscopist suggested previously is more
difficult to apply with VAR). The learning point is to delay the
whistle when a goal might be imminently scored.
>
--- End Quote ---
Watford did well to be in two places at the same time. :)
#Post#: 10731--------------------------------------------------
Re: 1st ruled out goal by VAR in PL
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: September 3, 2019, 4:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bruntyboy link ---
>
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=933.msg10681#msg10681
date=1567422511]
> Dermot Gallagher was on SSN earlier.
>
> Regarding the Watford V West Ham penalty appeal, he said he
thought it should have been a penalty and he thought VAR should
have intervened.
>
> Regarding Leicester V Bournemouth, he said he thought it
should have been a red card but he had spoken to plenty of
people who didn't think it was so he thought VAR was right not
to intervene.
>
> Regarding Newcastle V Watford, he said that the goal should
have been disallowed but Craig Pawson hadn't seen the handball,
whether because he'd felt under pressure to complete the check
too quickly or because he hadn't seen the relevant angle.
Gallagher said VARs would be encouraged to take an extra 10 or
15 seconds if needed to complete a check and ensure they had
gone through the whole checklist of possible offences.
>
> Regarding Palace V Aston Villa, he said he didn't think it was
simulation but he didn't think it was a penalty (I would suggest
the kind of compromise Microscopist suggested previously is more
difficult to apply with VAR). The learning point is to delay the
whistle when a goal might be imminently scored.
>
--- End Quote ---
Watford did well to be in two places at the same time. :)
[/quote]
It's their new strategy for maximising the points available to
them - they need every one they can get! ;)
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