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#Post#: 10629--------------------------------------------------
Re: 1st ruled out goal by VAR in PL
DIR By: Mackem ref
Date: August 31, 2019, 5:45 pm
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With regards to the challenge at Leicester today, is this not a
case in point of why a pitch side monitor is important. Surely
Bankes should be able to look at that and deem whether it is a
red or not! It’s irritating that the PL have to think they are
better than everyone else and develop their own brand of VAR
which is as useless as a chocolate fire guard!
Minutes spent agonising over multimeters offside is nowhere near
as important as trying to stamp out bad challenges from the
game. Keeping 22 players on the pitch is not a referee’s
priority - if a player is deserving of a red card, then they
should be disciplined appropriately.
#Post#: 10631--------------------------------------------------
Re: 1st ruled out goal by VAR in PL
DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
Date: August 31, 2019, 6:17 pm
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Kevin Friend didn’t endear himself to the Villa players this
afternoon... as for the ugly scenes in the crowd... disgraceful.
#Post#: 10635--------------------------------------------------
Re: 1st ruled out goal by VAR in PL
DIR By: guest320
Date: August 31, 2019, 6:31 pm
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I made some strong comments about VAR last week and I'm
absolutely going to reiterate them again now. The officials
using VAR have had an absolute shocker today. The way they are
using VAR for subjective decisions is a disgrace and just
plainly wrong!
Basically, if the referee has seen the incident then VAR will
not intervene. Awful tackles, clear penalties all seen by the
on-field referee and called blatantly wrong - and VAR will not
get involved because the referee has "seen" the incident. What
absolute rubbish! This completely misses the point of having VAR
in the first place! If this is the way they are going to
continue using it then I would rather not have it. Far too much
importance is placed on the opinion of the referee on the field.
It is simple, if in the opinion of the VAR referee, the on-field
referee has made a mistake then overturn it. This whole nonsense
about the referee having "seen" the incident is just a way of
making the whole system more complicated and the officials tying
themselves in knots!
And don't get me started on my team (Watford's) decision at
Newcastle. We are desperate for a win got ourselves ahead and
conceded a goal that should blatantly have been ruled out. I
completely understand how the referee missed it real time. But
when the goal goes in VAR check's it. After just one slow motion
replay you can clearly see the ball strike the hand of the
Newcastle attacker. This is not a subjective decision. The rule
is clear. In these instances the goal is simply ruled out. I
don't know what Craig Pawson the VAR ref could have been looking
at. I'm not going to say it cost us two points as there was one
half to go, but it was certainly a game changing decision that
went against us and I don't know why. The VAR ref would have
seen the slow motion replay, the rule is clear and not
subjective, and they still managed to get it wrong.
Unbelievable!!
#Post#: 10641--------------------------------------------------
Re: 1st ruled out goal by VAR in PL
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: September 1, 2019, 3:53 am
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--- Quote from: chriswfc link ---
>
> I made some strong comments about VAR last week and I'm
absolutely going to reiterate them again now. The officials
using VAR have had an absolute shocker today. The way they are
using VAR for subjective decisions is a disgrace and just
plainly wrong!
>
> Basically, if the referee has seen the incident then VAR will
not intervene. Awful tackles, clear penalties all seen by the
on-field referee and called blatantly wrong - and VAR will not
get involved because the referee has "seen" the incident. What
absolute rubbish! This completely misses the point of having VAR
in the first place! If this is the way they are going to
continue using it then I would rather not have it. Far too much
importance is placed on the opinion of the referee on the field.
It is simple, if in the opinion of the VAR referee, the on-field
referee has made a mistake then overturn it. This whole nonsense
about the referee having "seen" the incident is just a way of
making the whole system more complicated and the officials tying
themselves in knots!
>
> And don't get me started on my team (Watford's) decision at
Newcastle. We are desperate for a win got ourselves ahead and
conceded a goal that should blatantly have been ruled out. I
completely understand how the referee missed it real time. But
when the goal goes in VAR check's it. After just one slow motion
replay you can clearly see the ball strike the hand of the
Newcastle attacker. This is not a subjective decision. The rule
is clear. In these instances the goal is simply ruled out. I
don't know what Craig Pawson the VAR ref could have been looking
at. I'm not going to say it cost us two points as there was one
half to go, but it was certainly a game changing decision that
went against us and I don't know why. The VAR ref would have
seen the slow motion replay, the rule is clear and not
subjective, and they still managed to get it wrong.
Unbelievable!!
>
--- End Quote ---
With FIFA now wanting to introduce 'robot' Assistant Referees,
how long will it be before they decide that onfield officials
are no longer required at the top level and the whole game can
be officiated by someone looking at a TV screen.
The game which I have loved is being ruined by too much
meddling.
#Post#: 10645--------------------------------------------------
Re: 1st ruled out goal by VAR in PL
DIR By: Ref Fan
Date: September 1, 2019, 4:57 am
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While the focus has been on the non-intervention of VAR for what
many would claim were clear and obvious errors, it has to some
degree masked one or two sub par performances from the referees
themselves already this season.
Paul Tierney was poor last week at OT, and it doesn't sound as
if he was great at West Ham yesterday. Kevin Friend has been
heavily criticised on a separate match topic and questions
raised on Graham's Scott's decisions at Newcastle, both
yesterday. If the original expectation was that VAR would bail
a referee out if he made a bad decision (wasn't there an
interview with Taylor and Oliver in the Times earlier in August
which alluded to this?), is it possible it is making referees
slightly less likely to make the tough calls? Even if that were
the case, surely they must now realise the bar (by whoever) has
been set too high?
#Post#: 10646--------------------------------------------------
Re: 1st ruled out goal by VAR in PL
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: September 1, 2019, 6:23 am
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This is the Times interview with Oliver and Taylor -
HTML https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/michael-oliver-i-don-t-like-driving-home-for-four-hours-knowing-i-have-made-a-critical-mistake-kdd88g0nc
Some interesting quotes such as '“VAR was brought in for when
100 per cent of people were saying that’s a penalty or that’s a
red card.” and “It’s not what VAR should be for, where you
potentially change a decision and still have a debate. When we
are discussing clips like that as a group, if we can’t come to a
consensus then the VAR should stay well out of the way.”
In many ways, I do have sympathy with the PL's position. It
seems to me they would rather be accused of using VAR too little
rather than too much, as we saw at competitions such as the
Women's World Cup where it became far too intrusive. Their aim
does seem to fit in with the initial foundation of VAR - the
main problem seems to be that some clear and obvious errors
haven't been spotted, and certainly there can be no defence for
Craig Pawson's decision in the Newcastle V Watford game
considering what has been applied so far.
#Post#: 10647--------------------------------------------------
Re: 1st ruled out goal by VAR in PL
DIR By: carrowman
Date: September 1, 2019, 6:32 am
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--- Quote from: Ref Fan link ---
>
>
> Paul Tierney was poor last week at OT, and it doesn't sound as
if he was great at West Ham yesterday.
>
--- End Quote ---
Very lenient. Missed a very poor challenge on Zimmermann by
Haller which resulted in the player having to go off. Couple of
other challenges not punished but I was so far back, think I was
watching the match from a different postcode!
#Post#: 10652--------------------------------------------------
Re: 1st ruled out goal by VAR in PL
DIR By: rustyref
Date: September 1, 2019, 7:37 am
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Sometimes the authorities can't win. There were people on here
that were highly critical of how VAR was being used, such as in
the World Cup when it was being used to spot the most minor of
contact almost invisible to the naked eye to give penalties.
The FA / PGMOL have said they won't do that and that the bar
will be set high, with only very obviously incorrect decisions
being changed. That does mean that it has to effectively be an
absolute clanger of a decision to get overturned by VAR, and I
would rather the bar be a little lower, but would much rather
this than VAR taking 5 minutes to spot for minor contact.
#Post#: 10653--------------------------------------------------
Re: 1st ruled out goal by VAR in PL
DIR By: Microscopist
Date: September 1, 2019, 10:09 am
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Having seen how VAR is being applied with such a high threshold
for overturning decisions -
as one City fan puts it -
--- Quote ---
> A referee missing that a player has taken out a machete and
lopped off an opposition attacker’s leg at the knee.
> And even then the threshold for blood loss is very high for
the no penalty decision to be overturned.
>
--- End Quote ---
- then it would have been wise to have announced at the
beginning that VAR would be introduced gradually, In the first
season perhaps just for offside decisions (and then only for
those outwith the margin of error in the measurement). But that
is with hindsight.
Meantime VAR is bringing refereeing into disrepute and the two
decisions yesterday to chalk off Villa's equaliser and to allow
Newcastle's are really beyond the pale. The former because it
simply defies any explanation either for the referee's decision
or for VAR not bailing him out by saying "You'd better award a
penalty". The latter, whilst defensible in itself, in the
context of two high profile previous decisions that were
defended suggests that not all ball to hand contacts by
attackers leading to a goal are going to treated equally.
How to get out of it? Well, as the saying goes "I wouldn't
start from here."
#Post#: 10654--------------------------------------------------
Re: 1st ruled out goal by VAR in PL
DIR By: Carter
Date: September 1, 2019, 10:23 am
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Its all about looking after each other and nothing to do with
proper and fair implimetation.
The ref makes the decision knowing that its not going to be
overturned. Probably because as others have said the ref is
saying I have had a good view of it, so no changing it.
He can just stand there with his finger on his ear supposedly
selling to everyone its being reviewed, knowing the decision
will stand (other than offsides) so when VAR says play on he can
just say its not me its them.
This whole strategy is designed to make the refs match control
easier and not right the Clear & Obvious wrongs
Conspiracy maybe, jobs for the boys certainly, bad for the game
definitely.
The quicker evryone realises the better and its got rid of.
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