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#Post#: 638--------------------------------------------------
Re: Who was the referee? Appeals for information
By: Whistleblower Date: September 5, 2018, 3:41 am
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It was very generally thought that Ray Lewis would be awarded
the FA Cup Final in 1991. However, there was talk of a marked
split in the FA Committee which doled out these honours between
those supporting Lewis and another referee who I heard was
Martin Bodenham and so they compromised on the rather
"alternative" choice of Roger Milford, who of course did not
exactly distinguish himself in the Final. The world of senior
refereeing is awash with rumours but I heard this from more than
one source but who knows if it's entirely accurate.
Interestingly though, both Lewis and Bodenham were very senior
FIFA referees and neither ever got the FA Cup Final though both
were awarded the League Cup Final; Lewis in 1991 and Bodenham in
1997
#Post#: 667--------------------------------------------------
Re: Who was the referee? Appeals for information
By: Left Field Date: September 5, 2018, 1:02 pm
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[quote author=Whistleblower link=topic=9.msg638#msg638
date=1536136907]
It was very generally thought that Ray Lewis would be awarded
the FA Cup Final in 1991. However, there was talk of a marked
split in the FA Committee which doled out these honours between
those supporting Lewis and another referee who I heard was
Martin Bodenham and so they compromised on the rather
"alternative" choice of Roger Milford, who of course did not
exactly distinguish himself in the Final. The world of senior
refereeing is awash with rumours but I heard this from more than
one source but who knows if it's entirely accurate.
Interestingly though, both Lewis and Bodenham were very senior
FIFA referees and neither ever got the FA Cup Final though both
were awarded the League Cup Final; Lewis in 1991 and Bodenham in
1997
[/quote]
While Ray Lewis would seem an obvious contender for the 1991 FA
Cup Final (at least before he had been appointed to the League
Cup Final a few weeks earlier) I would be very surprised if
Martin Bodenham had been in the frame as he wasn't an
international referee at the time and his appointments were
above-average but not spectacular. It may have been a case of
one person throwing his name into the ring rather than him being
strongly considered. Roger Milford was a very popular choice at
the time within the wider footballing fraternity where he seemed
to be many players and fans' favourite referee, not unlike
Gordon Hill twenty years earlier. How he was regarded among
other referees I'm not sure and alas Rate the Ref was not around
at the time to get that sort of indication. As it turned out his
errors in that Final have perhaps coloured views of his overall
refereeing.
Martin Bodenham's ascent started strongly the following season
when he was one of those who rose to FIFA status as the new age
limits curtailed the international careers of officials such as
Ray Lewis. Those age limits opened doors for some and closed
them for others - as can be true of raising or abandoning them
as well.
#Post#: 669--------------------------------------------------
Re: Who was the referee? Appeals for information
By: Whistleblower Date: September 5, 2018, 4:25 pm
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Roger Milford certainly cultivated a certain reputation for
himself as being slightly anti-establishment. All the more
surprising perhaps that he was awarded the FA Cup Final; neither
was he a FIFA referee. I suspect Milford divided opinion among
fellow referees with more than a few thinking his self-promotion
and somewhat idiosyncratic style of officiating didn't exactly
make for good colleague relationships. I have heard it said that
Linesmen were sharply divided about officiating with him. For
some he was their favourite referee with whom to work while for
others, a bete-noir would be more accurate.
#Post#: 670--------------------------------------------------
Re: Who was the referee? Appeals for information
By: Acme Thunderer Date: September 6, 2018, 3:48 am
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An interesting article on Arthur Jones, thanks LF. A few points:
- like Eric Garner, Arthur rued not being able to referee the
Mersey derby. However, to my mind, the Mersey derby was the one
League game that Arthur (and Eric) could have refereed as local
refs, assuming they didn't support either side. Arthur refereed
the Manchester derby in Sept 1976 and there is a good sighting
of him at 1.24 on the Youtube film (Man City v Man Utd 1976/77).
The linesman on the right at the KO looks a bit like Gwyn Owen
of Anglesey who became a supplementary ref that season.
- professional refs, Arthur questioned whether they would be any
more dedicated than the FL refs were at the time. Not sure on
that one but I am certain that full time professionals were
needed as the game developed, particularly in the PL.
- moving free kicks 10 yards forward, I thought this was tried
but not sure whether it was at the top levels.
- deflections by defenders playing forwards onside. This was
never my understanding and I was always taught that forwards
could only be played onside if it followed a back pass, however
unintentioned.
I love Arthur's uniform, definitely old school as I think Arthur
was!
#Post#: 673--------------------------------------------------
Re: Who was the referee? Appeals for information
By: robbie_scouse Date: September 6, 2018, 9:39 am
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[quote author=Left Field link=topic=9.msg667#msg667
date=1536170559]
Martin Bodenham's ascent started strongly the following season
when he was one of those who rose to FIFA status as the new age
limits curtailed the international careers of officials such as
Ray Lewis.
[/quote]
Indeed - he took charge of the FA Cup Semi Final (and replay)
between Liverpool and Portsmouth in the 91/92 season.
#Post#: 692--------------------------------------------------
Re: Who was the referee? Appeals for information
By: Left Field Date: September 7, 2018, 12:57 pm
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The picture below comes from a Manchester United-Birmingham
match in 1976. I know who the referee is and I imagine so do
many others - here he is sending off Archie Styles of Birmingham
in the era before red cards when dismissals seemed routinely to
be characterised by kerfuffle, confusion and sometimes chaos.
[attachimg=1]
My interest is more in the linesman. If the programme details
are correct he would have been Frank Phipps who a few years
later had one of the shortest careers as a Football League
referee, completing half a season before departing early in
1980. It's probably unlikely that anyone came across Mr. Phipps
either on the line or in the middle but someone might have done
and could say (within the limits of a murky picture) whether the
pictured linesman is him.
For most of his career on the line Mr. Phipps was based in the
Wirral so a Cheshire referee. The vaguely visible badge looks a
little like a Cheshire one. He later moved to Wrexham where he
also had his brief career in the FL middle although I'm not sure
whether he was an Englishman who moved to Wales or a Welshman
returning home.
#Post#: 704--------------------------------------------------
Re: Who was the referee? Appeals for information
By: Grahamexref Date: September 7, 2018, 4:49 pm
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Yes, I am sure the referee is well known to many senior RTR
members; first two initials BJ and was always known as John
because of his most unusual first name !. Sorry, but I cannot
help with the identity of the linesman.
#Post#: 706--------------------------------------------------
Re: Who was the referee? Appeals for information
By: Whistleblower Date: September 7, 2018, 7:02 pm
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At the risk of making an arcane point. The photograph does
exceedingly well show the evolving practice of white sock
turnovers. The referee favouring the traditional generous white
turnover while the linesman following the then current trend of
only showing a strip of white. i was always very firmly in the
the camp of following the referee in this photo. Now of course
the all black sock render all distinctions void.
#Post#: 712--------------------------------------------------
Re: Who was the referee? Appeals for information
By: Acme Thunderer Date: September 8, 2018, 4:29 am
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[quote author=Grahamexref link=topic=9.msg704#msg704
date=1536356983]
Yes, I am sure the referee is well known to many senior RTR
members; first two initials BJ and was always known as John
because of his most unusual first name !. Sorry, but I cannot
help with the identity of the linesman.
[/quote]
Yes, the name of the ref is given in the 10 minute film of the
game, available to watch via Google. However the name of the
linesman is not and I too cannot put a name to the face. The
incident leading to the sending off of Styles took place right
at the end of the game, and following another incident, BJ
called the game to an end with unseemly haste, leading to the
commentator talking of a 'shambles', which was perhaps an
understatement!
#Post#: 750--------------------------------------------------
Re: Who was the referee? Appeals for information
By: Boris10 Date: September 9, 2018, 9:07 am
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F Phipps was a regular in West Yorks/Lancs.
It does look quite like him-very often he sported a short
moustache.
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