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#Post#: 112705--------------------------------------------------
Re: C KAVANAGH - Liverpool v Man City
DIR By: TC021002
Date: October 11, 2026, 2:17 pm
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Don't see an issue with the 2nd yellow but the 1st was clearly
wrong imo.
#Post#: 112710--------------------------------------------------
Re: C KAVANAGH - Liverpool v Man City
DIR By: mac
Date: October 11, 2026, 2:41 pm
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--- Quote from: TA_Ref link ---
>
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=8462.msg112698#msg112698
date=1791742467]
> [quote author=TA_Ref link=topic=8462.msg112682#msg112682
date=1791737819]
> I don’t normally go this strong but he’s ruined the game by
his application of cautions. This didn’t necessarily need a
strong disciplinarian on this game. It just needed someone to
keep control of it.
>
--- End Quote ---
Gravenberch 2 - textbook SPA
[/quote]
I respect your opinion but I don’t agree that Gravenberch’s
second caution was ‘textbook SPA’. It was a very subjective SPA
but it was far from clear cut.
Firstly, the foul was committed about 15/20 yards inside Man
City’s half. It’s not like Doku was speeding away from
Gravenberch when he made the challenge. He may have done AFTER
the challenge but the challenge was not a cynical tackle
breaking anything up. It was an innocuous tackle in a safe area
of the field in my opinion.
We’re now going into what do we class as ‘promising attack’.
Given where the tackle occurs and also the fact that the
Liverpool defender Jacquet would come out to Doku if he got past
him then I can’t really see that as a promising attack. That’s
not really what SPA is for is it? It’s more for those cynical
fouls when a player is breaking away from you and there may be a
potential overload. None of those apply to this situation for
me. A clear cut SPA is the Fulham midfielder that hauled down
Ouattara after about 84 minutes (I’m aware people might not have
seen it) but this does not fall into a catergory of clear SPA.
It’s very very subjective. And I would lean on the side of no
caution rather than caution.
[/quote]
It’s a SPA. Doesn’t have to be a deliberate attempt to break up
the attack. Don’t get me wrong I would prefer a world where two
of those challenges didn’t get a player sent off but I don’t
think it can be argued as a caution in isolation. But you can
absolutely guarantee if it was O’Reilly who made it when on a
yellow, VVD and co would have been straight in there appealing
for a send off.
#Post#: 112711--------------------------------------------------
Re: C KAVANAGH - Liverpool v Man City
DIR By: Claretman
Date: October 11, 2026, 2:44 pm
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Two correct fouls and yellow cards given against Gravenberch who
should not have given the referee an option for the second as he
knew he was already on a yellow card. As usual the referee is
damned if he does and damned if he doesnt. Just because the game
is Liverpool v Manchester City and the game changed as a result
of the second yellow doesnt change the laws of the game. Blame
the player being sanctioned not the referee doing his job
properly.
#Post#: 112720--------------------------------------------------
Re: C KAVANAGH - Liverpool v Man City
DIR By: TA_Ref
Date: October 11, 2026, 4:43 pm
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--- Quote from: mac link ---
>
> [quote author=TA_Ref link=topic=8462.msg112682#msg112682
date=1791737819]
> I don’t normally go this strong but he’s ruined the game by
his application of cautions. This didn’t necessarily need a
strong disciplinarian on this game. It just needed someone to
keep control of it.
>
--- End Quote ---
And you would have controlled it how?
He’s only done one for waving a card, one for O’Reilly (studs on
top of foot, always a yellow), and Gravenberch twice. Second
isn’t a massive foul but it is a SPA, I missed the first. If he
doesn’t do the second the other naysayers say it’s only because
he was on a yellow. Risky challenge to make on a yellow for me.
[/quote]
I only really made the comment on control because it seemed to
me like he was going to be really lenient but then changed
during the match and became rather strict where his applications
of some cautions were a bit amiss to me. Let me get it right
that I’m in no position to challenge Chris Kavanagh on however
he chooses to control a match. If I was refereeing today, I
would’ve lost control after 30 seconds.
When there was an early scuffle, I expected yellows for Anderson
and MacAllister since they both started the ruckus and that’s
your normal standard procedure. But he let them both off which
gave me the impression he was going to be lenient, let the game
flow and not get too involved with cautions and things like
that. He changed that completely with the first Gravenberch
yellow which was not a YC imo. So, to me, he’s changing how he’s
refereeing the game during it and I’m sure that irritates
players but also supporters. I’ll be honest, I thought there was
more cautions than there was (a bit like Attwell yesterday, I
felt there were more than 7 yellows) and a couple of them were
standard. O’Reilly’s yellow felt harsh to me as well. Late,
careless challenge not worthy of a caution to me. I don’t buy
the idea that standing on the foot of an opponent is always a
yellow. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn’t. And then I’ve
made my thoughts on the Gravenberch red. What I would add to
that is that given ProRef’s guidance is that there is a higher
bar when it comes to second cautions, I’m just surprised
Kavanagh went for a second yellow. Is it supportable? Maybe,
probably. I just think that’ll happen next week and nothing will
be done.
#Post#: 112728--------------------------------------------------
Re: C KAVANAGH - Liverpool v Man City
DIR By: flipmode
Date: October 11, 2026, 7:18 pm
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From the limited highlights I saw, I don't think the first one
was a YC. I do concede though, I don't know if this was his
first foul of the game that got his YC, or maybe it was more and
he'd already been warned?
You really have to ask yourself why when on a YC though, would
any player make the challenge he did for the second? Left
Kavanagh with literally no other option but to give the second
yellow.
I do wonder if some of the ire pointed his way is more because
of the media narrative against City, and someone who had the
temerity to apply the laws of the game, somehow, was the
pantomine villian and made sure that the big bad wolf won again?
#Post#: 112730--------------------------------------------------
Re: C KAVANAGH - Liverpool v Man City
DIR By: Mikael W
Date: October 12, 2026, 1:24 am
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HTML https://streamin.link/v/56e8f3aa
I didn't watch the game, but it does come across like many views
were influenced by Sky's/Carragher's coverage - both cautions to
Gravenberch were correct.
[attach=1]
47min:
It is understandable that not all readers here know this, but
'step on foot' fouls have been an area of focus for UEFA
referees for about ten seasons now.
Gravenberch deliberately stands on Anderson's foot, because the
Man City player would otherwise have broken through the line of
midfield and been in a promising position.
I would not argue that the nature of the contact is explicitly
reckless - but to see this foul as innocuous/accidental is
completely misreading the incident.
[attach=2]
62min:
This is actually a fairly routine SPA decision - Doku has oceans
of space, and Gravenberch deliberately wipes him out.
The nature of the contact is careless, but this doesn't matter,
because it is a tactical foul which stops a promising attack.
Kavanagh should be praised for having the courage to make a
brave and unpopular decision, which was (clearly) correct.
--- Quote from: flipmode link ---
>
> I do wonder if some of the ire pointed his way is more because
of the media narrative against City, and someone who had the
temerity to apply the laws of the game, somehow, was the
pantomine villian and made sure that the big bad wolf won again?
>
--- End Quote ---
Exactly.
I was critical of Kavanagh in the past (sometimes excessively
so, or at least excessively formulated) but he has improved
greatly since returning from a long-term injury.
A place at Euro 2028 seems a very realistic and achievable goal
for the calm, steady English official.
#Post#: 112731--------------------------------------------------
Re: C KAVANAGH - Liverpool v Man City
DIR By: Blind Referee
Date: October 12, 2026, 2:26 am
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Thought Chris had a really solid game, was always in control and
looked at ease. Quite surprised at the comments re the sending
off ? First one may have been seemed as harsh by some, but I
would agree and support it, second caution was nailed on and as
straightforward a yellow card as they come - not sure if some on
here have a slight bias / agenda against Chris ? Top quality
referee, highly rated by FIFA, very, very rarely has an off day
and always officiates in a low key, not wanting to be the star
of the show manner
#Post#: 112744--------------------------------------------------
Re: C KAVANAGH - Liverpool v Man City
DIR By: Failed Ref
Date: October 12, 2026, 6:03 am
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RefWatch agreed that Kavanagh got the first YC wrong and for
what it's worth I agree. Sadly the second YC is nailed on and
Gravenberch was daft to do what he did knowing he was on a
yellow. He had to go.
P.s. I note the paranoid bunch are angry as they believe that a
referee born within a few miles of Maine Road should have done
the game. I despair.
#Post#: 112794--------------------------------------------------
Re: C KAVANAGH - Liverpool v Man City
DIR By: Leggy
Date: October 12, 2026, 12:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Claretman link ---
>
> Two correct fouls and yellow cards given against Gravenberch
who should not have given the referee an option for the second
as he knew he was already on a yellow card. As usual the referee
is damned if he does and damned if he doesnt. Just because the
game is Liverpool v Manchester City and the game changed as a
result of the second yellow doesnt change the laws of the game.
Blame the player being sanctioned not the referee doing his job
properly.
>
--- End Quote ---
"As usual the referee is damned if he does and damned if he
doesnt."
100% agree. In a parallel universe, CK gives the Liverpool
player the benefit of the doubt and a "final warning", possibly
because his sub-conscious is telling him that the first caution
was a bit soft. Liverpool take the hint and substitute him
straightaway.
CK gets dogs abuse for "being inconsistent", "treating a SPA
caution differently because its a second yellow card", etc. etc.
As the saying goes: "If you are standing on the edge of a
cliff, tread carefully".
#Post#: 112865--------------------------------------------------
Re: C KAVANAGH - Liverpool v Man City
DIR By: SM
Date: October 13, 2026, 3:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Failed Ref link ---
>
> P.s. I note the paranoid bunch are angry as they believe that
a referee born within a few miles of Maine Road should have done
the game. I despair.
>
--- End Quote ---
Herein though, it's a shame that even on this forum, it's just
slating another group of individuals because you disagree with
something they've said.
Ultimately though, given the events of the last few weeks, do
you not the optics of allocating a Greater Manchester referee to
a game involving a club from Manchester who have been found
guilty of effectively cheating. While there might not be a
conflict in supporting teams, the optics create the conflict,
whether there is a true conflict or not.
--- Quote from: Failed Ref link ---
>
> RefWatch agreed that Kavanagh got the first YC wrong and for
what it's worth I agree. Sadly the second YC is nailed on and
Gravenberch was daft to do what he did knowing he was on a
yellow. He had to go.
>
--- End Quote ---
So now a yellow card sanction effectively becomes a pseudo red
card?
You can't tackle, you can't attempt to win the ball.
Is this the beautiful game now? Football is a contact sport.
Maybe you as referees need to be reminded of this? Not all
contact is a foul, not all fouls are yellow cards.
Howard Webb last season spoke about how referee's have a bit of
discretion when it comes to second yellow cards, he spoke about
this after a City player wasn't sent off for a second yellow.
--- Quote from: mac link ---
>
> But you can absolutely guarantee if it was O’Reilly who made
it when on a yellow, VVD and co would have been straight in
there appealing for a send off.
>
--- End Quote ---
It's interesting you make this point, Fernandez making a yellow
card gesture after the second foul didn't get the same
punishment as the Liverpool player, after 8 minutes, did.
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