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#Post#: 111957--------------------------------------------------
Re: Darren England BHA v Arsenal
DIR By: DublinRef
Date: September 20, 2026, 9:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JCFC link ---
>
> I find the last sentence of the above most surprising. Dublin
Ref's posts have always been a model of sober judgement and
sound good sense, appropriately expressed.
>
--- End Quote ---
I greatly appreciate that JCFC, and especially from such an
esteemed poster such as yourself.
I also appreciate Adam’s remarks, there is an irony that El
Referee feels Adam is wrong to fear being “attacked” based on
disagreement, yet seems to apply that standard to my interaction
with him.
El Referee has explained that my reference to a “barristers
trick” of twisting the statement made was in his view
“personal.”
Well if that is the standard for personal remarks, I do
genuinely apologise. I never intend to play the man but just the
ball, my criticism was of an argument style, nothing to do with
El Referee’s personality, character or anything else. I’ve no
idea who El Referee is and I’m sure he/she is a throughly decent
person.
In terms of taking my posts with a pinch of salt, knowing me
that might actually be sound advice!!
Anyway - swings and roundabouts!
#Post#: 111965--------------------------------------------------
Re: Darren England BHA v Arsenal
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: September 20, 2026, 10:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DublinRef link ---
>
> [quote author=El Referee link=topic=8411.msg111943#msg111943
date=1789908153]
> [quote author=DublinRef link=topic=8411.msg111940#msg111940
date=1789907690]
> [quote author=El Referee link=topic=8411.msg111938#msg111938
date=1789907314]
> [quote author=Adam link=topic=8411.msg111935#msg111935
date=1789906509]
> [quote author=El Referee link=topic=8411.msg111933#msg111933
date=1789904667]
> [quote author=Adam link=topic=8411.msg111932#msg111932
date=1789903982]
> [quote author=El Referee link=topic=8411.msg111931#msg111931
date=1789902475]
>
HTML https://www.skysports.com/share/13589948
>
> There’s a few more angles of the Rice incident here. It’s one
that will certainly split opinion, but I still don’t see
anything more than a trip. Had the ball been there, I don’t
think anyone even considers this being a red.
>
--- End Quote ---
He looks at the player, changes his running path away from the
ball, pulls his foot back and then moves it forward at a
reasonable enough speed towards the player. Thats not a trip, a
trip is a stretch or single forward movement towards the player,
not one where the foot moves back to gather momentum before
going towards the player which is a swing, which is what
happened here. Its a red card. Opinion is not split, its
divided, with a larger proportion thinking red, according to
popular media and pundits anyway.
[/quote]
Does he change his running path? Yes. Does the Brighton change
his running path to barge Rice? Yes. Does changing your running
path have anything to do with this? No.
Rices foot is never pulled back in a kicking motion. He is
literally jogging.
Any group chat I am in is pretty evenly split. If you’re having
to use pundits as your justification, I’ll end the discussion
there.
[/quote]
I think you should watch it again. Jogging doesn't involve
backwards leg movement which is quite evident in the video
above.
In regards to your comment about pundits, many are knowledgeable
on the laws of the game and how the game should be conducted.
Just because there are some not so intelligent pundits in the
sphere it doesn't mean they should all be tarnished with that
brush. Listening to them is no less beneficial than armchair
experts in group chats. A forum like this is the most beneficial
and valuable source of opinion on refereeing decisions. The fact
that most agree with my original topic of it being a red card
should be enough to know that it more than likely should have
been one.
[/quote]
Jogging doesn’t involve backwards leg movement? What?! I’ll
definitely leave this one. The barrel is being scraped.
[/quote]
Well, to be technical, Adam is correct. When running, you propel
your body forwards over the planted foot. Your leg moves
backwards relative to your body, but that doesn’t necessarily
mean the foot itself is travelling backwards relative to the
ground - that’s why the leg appears behind you as you move
forward.
Anyway, it’s a rather cheap response because you know what he’s
getting at. There is a clear swinging motion of the leg; it
isn’t simply a case of sticking his leg in front of an opponent
as part of a natural running motion. He’s swinging the leg at
him to strike him with it.
[/quote]
No he isn’t. His justification has been ‘the pundits said’ and
‘your leg doesn’t go behind when jogging’.
I look forward to the next controversial decision in which you
both agree with whatever the pundits say. I’d also recommend
watching any runners or footballers gait.
[/quote]
The running argument is just getting silly and not really
relevant except as a matter of forensic detail. However, I’ll
state it again: while the foot is planted, the runner’s body
moves forwards over it. The leg does not travel backwards
relative to the ground simply because the leg is moving
backwards relative to the runner’s body.
So, technically, classifying his argument as “Jogging doesn’t
involve backwards leg movement” without specifying the frame of
reference doesn’t actually establish anything. More importantly,
none of this addresses the obvious distinction between a normal
running gait and deliberately swinging your leg towards another
player.
Anyhow, I have never used a pundits view to support any argument
I made, I was merely pointing out the technical inaccuracy in
your characterisation of Adam’s argument.
On your response to my other post, not only did I not claim it
being off the ball was the only relevant factor I specifically
have said, a number of times, the act must be viewed in context.
With respect you’re doing the old barristers trick of twisting
slightly what’s being said to allow you to reply to an argument
more favourable for your view.
[/quote]
Young barristers do it as well but I grant you it's an old trick
which a judge will often pull you up on.
#Post#: 111971--------------------------------------------------
Re: Darren England BHA v Arsenal
DIR By: DublinRef
Date: September 20, 2026, 11:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
>
> [quote author=DublinRef link=topic=8411.msg111949#msg111949
date=1789909979]
> [quote author=El Referee link=topic=8411.msg111943#msg111943
date=1789908153]
> [quote author=DublinRef link=topic=8411.msg111940#msg111940
date=1789907690]
> [quote author=El Referee link=topic=8411.msg111938#msg111938
date=1789907314]
> [quote author=Adam link=topic=8411.msg111935#msg111935
date=1789906509]
> [quote author=El Referee link=topic=8411.msg111933#msg111933
date=1789904667]
> [quote author=Adam link=topic=8411.msg111932#msg111932
date=1789903982]
> [quote author=El Referee link=topic=8411.msg111931#msg111931
date=1789902475]
>
HTML https://www.skysports.com/share/13589948
>
> There’s a few more angles of the Rice incident here. It’s one
that will certainly split opinion, but I still don’t see
anything more than a trip. Had the ball been there, I don’t
think anyone even considers this being a red.
>
--- End Quote ---
He looks at the player, changes his running path away from the
ball, pulls his foot back and then moves it forward at a
reasonable enough speed towards the player. Thats not a trip, a
trip is a stretch or single forward movement towards the player,
not one where the foot moves back to gather momentum before
going towards the player which is a swing, which is what
happened here. Its a red card. Opinion is not split, its
divided, with a larger proportion thinking red, according to
popular media and pundits anyway.
[/quote]
Does he change his running path? Yes. Does the Brighton change
his running path to barge Rice? Yes. Does changing your running
path have anything to do with this? No.
Rices foot is never pulled back in a kicking motion. He is
literally jogging.
Any group chat I am in is pretty evenly split. If you’re having
to use pundits as your justification, I’ll end the discussion
there.
[/quote]
I think you should watch it again. Jogging doesn't involve
backwards leg movement which is quite evident in the video
above.
In regards to your comment about pundits, many are knowledgeable
on the laws of the game and how the game should be conducted.
Just because there are some not so intelligent pundits in the
sphere it doesn't mean they should all be tarnished with that
brush. Listening to them is no less beneficial than armchair
experts in group chats. A forum like this is the most beneficial
and valuable source of opinion on refereeing decisions. The fact
that most agree with my original topic of it being a red card
should be enough to know that it more than likely should have
been one.
[/quote]
Jogging doesn’t involve backwards leg movement? What?! I’ll
definitely leave this one. The barrel is being scraped.
[/quote]
Well, to be technical, Adam is correct. When running, you propel
your body forwards over the planted foot. Your leg moves
backwards relative to your body, but that doesn’t necessarily
mean the foot itself is travelling backwards relative to the
ground - that’s why the leg appears behind you as you move
forward.
Anyway, it’s a rather cheap response because you know what he’s
getting at. There is a clear swinging motion of the leg; it
isn’t simply a case of sticking his leg in front of an opponent
as part of a natural running motion. He’s swinging the leg at
him to strike him with it.
[/quote]
No he isn’t. His justification has been ‘the pundits said’ and
‘your leg doesn’t go behind when jogging’.
I look forward to the next controversial decision in which you
both agree with whatever the pundits say. I’d also recommend
watching any runners or footballers gait.
[/quote]
The running argument is just getting silly and not really
relevant except as a matter of forensic detail. However, I’ll
state it again: while the foot is planted, the runner’s body
moves forwards over it. The leg does not travel backwards
relative to the ground simply because the leg is moving
backwards relative to the runner’s body.
So, technically, classifying his argument as “Jogging doesn’t
involve backwards leg movement” without specifying the frame of
reference doesn’t actually establish anything. More importantly,
none of this addresses the obvious distinction between a normal
running gait and deliberately swinging your leg towards another
player.
Anyhow, I have never used a pundits view to support any argument
I made, I was merely pointing out the technical inaccuracy in
your characterisation of Adam’s argument.
On your response to my other post, not only did I not claim it
being off the ball was the only relevant factor I specifically
have said, a number of times, the act must be viewed in context.
With respect you’re doing the old barristers trick of twisting
slightly what’s being said to allow you to reply to an argument
more favourable for your view.
[/quote]
Young barristers do it as well but I grant you it's an old trick
which a judge will often pull you up on.
[/quote]
Fair point, perhaps the old ones are just better at it!!
😂
#Post#: 111978--------------------------------------------------
Re: Darren England BHA v Arsenal
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: September 20, 2026, 1:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps so; as a colleague used to say "there's no point getting
older unless you get more cunning with it".
#Post#: 111986--------------------------------------------------
Re: Darren England BHA v Arsenal
DIR By: Claretman
Date: September 20, 2026, 4:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Surely you shouldnt be kicking or tripping an opponent off the
ball whether its petulant or not. If someone tried to kick or
trip me up i would deem it as violent and totally unnecessary
conduct.
You cant go around kicking and tripping opponents at will.
I said after the Fernandes petulant kick last week that proref
were encouraging players to go around kicking opponents with
little to no punishment. Perhaps Rice read my post.
#Post#: 111993--------------------------------------------------
Re: Darren England BHA v Arsenal
DIR By: gooner
Date: September 21, 2026, 2:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
hi,
VAR didn't get involved all match. DE and team did well during
the game including allowing the crowd to instigate the countdown
to the visitor's dead ball restarts. brighton were absolutely
fantastic making firm but fair challenges from the first minute
- haven't seen arsenal this rattled since bournemouth away last
season. the rice incident was similar to the foden/fernandes
incident in the manchester derby - yalcouye barged rice after
the ball had been played and rice clipped yalcouye's heels
intentionally after that - a YC was probably correct - it
occurred in the 7th minute of 7 added.
regards,
gnr
#Post#: 111995--------------------------------------------------
Re: Darren England BHA v Arsenal
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: September 21, 2026, 3:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: gooner link ---
>
> hi,
>
> VAR didn't get involved all match. DE and team did well during
the game including allowing the crowd to instigate the countdown
to the visitor's dead ball restarts. brighton were absolutely
fanstastic making firm but fair challenges from the first minute
- haven't seen arsenal this rattled since bournemouth away last
season. the rice incident was similar to the foden/fernandes
incident in the manchester derby - yalcouye barged rice after
the ball had been played and rice clipped yalcouye's heels
intentionally after that - a YC was probably correct - it
occurred in the 7th minute of 7 added.
>
> regards,
>
> gnr
>
--- End Quote ---
Would that all reports about matches involving the team they
support were as fair and balanced as gooner's
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