DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
RateTheRef
HTML https://ratetheref.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: General Discussion
*****************************************************
#Post#: 106515--------------------------------------------------
Merging SG1 and SG2?
DIR By: TA_Ref
Date: May 22, 2026, 3:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I’ve been seeing a lot of posts on social media this evening
about the possible merging of SG1 and SG2 for next season.
A tweet from Andy Davies on X says ‘the merging of both groups
has been in circo for 4 months’. Hackett (unreliable, I know…)
also says he thinks Webb will merge both groups for next season
too.
I mean, this is the first I’ve heard of this if I’m being
honest. I am an advocate for it though, I think it would be good
for the leagues. I’m interested as to how it would work though.
Like would all SG1 become eligible to referee several
championship games per week and vice versa? Hopefully it does
happen because there is quite a lot of talent in SG2 in my
opinion.
#Post#: 106516--------------------------------------------------
Re: Merging SG1 and SG2?
DIR By: Adam
Date: May 22, 2026, 3:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Id be a big fan. It rewards those who perform well and has more
consequences for those who dont. I like it, itll also allow more
talent to shine through.
#Post#: 106517--------------------------------------------------
Re: Merging SG1 and SG2?
DIR By: olliebcafc
Date: May 22, 2026, 3:58 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Germany have this. You’d often see the big hitters like Felix
Brych at a random 2. Bundesliga game. My only consideration is
would that not only be feasible if VAR is brought to the
championship? As far as I know clubs voted against it
#Post#: 106520--------------------------------------------------
Re: Merging SG1 and SG2?
DIR By: rustyref
Date: May 22, 2026, 4:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I'd be surprised, if for no other reason it would cost them a
lot of money as they'd have to put the SG2 referees on the same
contract as SG1 referees currently are.
Whilst there are some good up and coming SG2 referees, there are
some that have been there for many years with no sniff of a
Premier League game. The lacks of Backhouse, Busby, Langford,
Linington, Martin, Ward and Whitestone aren't going to get an
EPL game, so feels pointless merging it.
#Post#: 106521--------------------------------------------------
Re: Merging SG1 and SG2?
DIR By: HChip
Date: May 22, 2026, 4:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The way Andy said it makes it seem like its getting more
unlikely as the days go by.
I agree with Rusty’s point. It is all well and good having the
good quality officials at your disposal, but you’ve got to think
of the lower quality officials who have a much lower chance of
getting a PL game and it would be pointless merging, especially
after the Supplementary Group was just introduced.
They wouldn’t have brought in the Supp List if the merge was
inbound, and they certainly won’t disband it after a year.
I can’t see it happening in my opinion.
#Post#: 106522--------------------------------------------------
Re: Merging SG1 and SG2?
DIR By: bmb
Date: May 22, 2026, 5:58 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
SG1 referees are already contracted to referee Championship
games, as well as League 1 & League 2. They have no guarantee of
exclusively PL games, of course the reality of appointments is
different as we all know but contractually it's already covered
and any merge will not change that or make it more likely to
happen.
#Post#: 106523--------------------------------------------------
Re: Merging SG1 and SG2?
DIR By: Lanyardhater
Date: May 22, 2026, 6:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I disagree with the nay-sayers. I think it would be a big
improvement for this reason. Labelling referees as Championship
referees means it becomes a huge talking-point whenever one of
them gets a Premier game, not least on RTR, with “trial game”
being the usual description. They shouldn’t be made to feel
they are on trial! The entire pool should be considered for
matches in both divisions, with proportions based of course on
performance and experience. Why shouldn’t one or more of those
names mentioned get a Premier game? The relatively small number
of SG1s means their appearance with each club comes around too
quickly. You know what they say about familiarity. Shake it up
a bit!
If the National List ever becomes professional, I would hope for
that to be merged in as well to create one large pool of
referees. It was of course exactly thus when there was just one
single Football League list for the top four divisions, before
the old Division 1 declared UDI and decided it wanted its own
green-shirted ‘elite’ panel and no-one else was going to get a
look in. (Words like ‘elite’ and ‘select’ really jar with me in
a refereeing context.)
The proportion of matches each referee got in each of the four
divisions obviously varied according to experience and
performance - but everyone could feel that they were in with a
shout of higher matches when the little white booklet landed on
the doormat next month if they were having a good spell. I knew
a couple of Football League referees in those far-off days, and
the knowledge that there was no barrier to them getting top
division games if their marks were good was a tremendous
incentive to performance. And to the outside world, it was no
big deal because the referees had not been “labelled” as only
supposed to be refereeing at a lower level.
Earlier this year (before I finally worked out how to elevate
myself from Guest to Member!) I was amazed to even see people on
here questioning whether someone was up to the task of handling
one particular top clash in League 1 - the exact level he was
“labelled” for, and at which he had been officiating for the
past three seasons!
I am probably provoking sighs from those who have already
“labelled” me as another sentimental old git who just wants to
return to the past. But I will give just one example of the
sort of routine progress that could be made in those days. Bill
Castle (Sedgley, near Dudley, Worcs.), not one of the two I knew
personally, became a Football League referee (so part of that
single four-division pool) in August 1967. Just one year later,
on the second Saturday of the 1968/69 season, he was refereeing
Everton v Tottenham Hotspur in front of a crowd of 55000! Such
progress would be unthinkable today, but then it was utterly
unremarkable. To the outside world Mr. Castle was just another
Football League referee doing another Football League game so no
big deal.
Anything that removes artificial barriers to progress is a good
thing in my opinion, so I hope the purported merging of the
Premier and Championship panels is not fake news.
#Post#: 106524--------------------------------------------------
Re: Merging SG1 and SG2?
DIR By: RCG
Date: May 22, 2026, 8:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Merging the 2 or creating a "new" list may give them the
opportunity to review, refine and rewrite contracts - which has,
until recently, certainly been something that has prevented
wholesale changes
I would imagine that from a stakeholders point of view the
creation of the supplementary list whilst good for the
individuals suggests the present situation would not have
allowed for as much movement/promotion and is therefore not fit
for purpose. As Nemesis is fond of saying there are a lot of
referees "fortunate" to have football as an employer
One list would also give the appearance of similar training so
more current SG2 refs could be used on VAR or as mentioned above
their appearance in PL games less of an issue. Was there much of
a forurure when established FL refs did NL games now their lists
have been combined? Or vice versa?
The status quo will not see an improvement so maybe change is
the right way to go
#Post#: 106527--------------------------------------------------
Re: Merging SG1 and SG2?
DIR By: ajb95
Date: May 23, 2026, 4:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RCG link ---
>
> Merging the 2 or creating a "new" list may give them the
opportunity to review, refine and rewrite contracts - which has,
until recently, certainly been something that has prevented
wholesale changes
> I would imagine that from a stakeholders point of view the
creation of the supplementary list whilst good for the
individuals suggests the present situation would not have
allowed for as much movement/promotion and is therefore not fit
for purpose. As Nemesis is fond of saying there are a lot of
referees "fortunate" to have football as an employer
> One list would also give the appearance of similar training so
more current SG2 refs could be used on VAR or as mentioned above
their appearance in PL games less of an issue. Was there much of
a forurure when established FL refs did NL games now their lists
have been combined? Or vice versa?
>
> The status quo will not see an improvement so maybe change is
the right way to go
>
--- End Quote ---
I would like to see it go back to what it was before PGMOL. Was
created as I don’t think it’s fit for purpose. You pick your
best 20 referees who will do predominantly PL games then your
next 25 to do championship games and then the remainder to do
league 1/2.
Each year everyone is graded and the lowest 2/3 get demoted and
the best 2/3 get promoted, regardless of age, experience etc.
Remove it from PL control as well
There are too many refs in SG1 who aren’t good enough for
various reasons and the only way to shake things up is to remove
them and get some other more high performing referees in.
#Post#: 106531--------------------------------------------------
Re: Merging SG1 and SG2?
DIR By: rustyref
Date: May 23, 2026, 5:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
There needs to be a realisation that SG1 and SG2 referees are on
employment contracts, and that can make demotion (or
reclassification as they prefer to call it) tricky. If they
merged SG1 and SG2 they would still be on an employment
contract, just with a bigger total wage bill as you'd have to
assume that SG2 salaries would be uplifted to SG1 level as
opposed to the other way round. If I or any of us in our
employment make a mistake we don't get sacked, it would have to
be an act of gross misconduct to trigger that. If we made a
minor error it might trigger an informal warning, something a
bit less minor a formal warning or a performance improvement
plan, even a major error is going to at worse result in a
written warning. I once made a mistake in an IT change that
caused a major outage and had significant impact on trading and
therefore a major financial impact, I didn't mean to do it and
it was accepted it was a one off error of judgement and I was
just told to be more careful in future. Was my mistake there
any different to a referee missing a penalty or red card? I
would argue not.
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 3
DIR Next Page