URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       RateTheRef
  HTML https://ratetheref.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: General Discussion
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 105620--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Chris Kavanagh - West Ham vs Arsenal 
   DIR By: Ref Fan
       Date: May 10, 2026, 2:21 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       As another poster mentioned, we can't assume at this stage that
       CK had no view of the incident with Raya.
       He may have had a decent view, partial view or no view.  If he
       had no view, I think it's legitimate to ask whether he should
       have.  If he did have a reasonably good view, the on field
       decision was goal so I would have thought C & O was relevant
       with VAR requiring compelling evidence to advise an OFR.
       Personally I wasn't convinced there was a definite foul but I
       accept others will have better eyes than me and saw it
       differently.  I guess the key will be what CK told VAR he had or
       hadn't seen.
       In terms of the time taken, I very much hope Darren England and
       his assistant spent some of that assessing aspects of the
       grappling from the corner prior to the 'foul' and were not just
       focused on the GK part of it.
       #Post#: 105621--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Chris Kavanagh - West Ham vs Arsenal 
   DIR By: mac
       Date: May 10, 2026, 2:28 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       It is a foul or two on GK, but I think I said after Fulham v Man
       United early in the season (and if I didn’t, I definitely
       thought it!) that VAR should not get involved in any corner or
       jostling scenario. Any decision stays with on field decision, as
       there is always so much going on you could find anything if you
       looked hard enough.
       Otherwise my opinions on VAR as a format need no reiteration.
       #Post#: 105622--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Chris Kavanagh - West Ham vs Arsenal 
   DIR By: gooner
       Date: May 10, 2026, 2:32 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Claretman link ---
       >
       >
       > Concidence i know but certain teams always seem to get the rub
       of the green when certain officials officiate them
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       hi,
       i've watched all 60 arsenal matches live/broadcast live this
       season and i can assure you they haven't always got the 'rub of
       the green' regardless of who the official(s) is/are  [emoji15]
       regards,
       gnr
       #Post#: 105623--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Chris Kavanagh - West Ham vs Arsenal 
   DIR By: badref
       Date: May 10, 2026, 2:32 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       West Ham fan here, and for what it’s worth I think it’s a clear
       foul - Pablo has got his hand across the GK’s chest and fully
       holding onto his left arm continually the whole time.
       Gary Neville and all 3 pundits in the studio agreed it was a
       foul as well
       #Post#: 105631--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Chris Kavanagh - West Ham vs Arsenal 
   DIR By: Tweed
       Date: May 10, 2026, 3:34 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I think it's a foul and I think when you zone in on arm on neck
       it's a clear and obvious overturn.  But there is so much going
       on there the VAR has to get the right sequence, focus on the
       right two players - reading an article on the BBC website he
       seems to have checked three or four different ones then made
       sure he had the chronology right.  For me that's the best part
       of three minutes well spent.  And again he had to explain
       everything to Kavanagh, again, 1 and a half minutes well spent.
       I also thought Kavanagh was excellent throughout in a game that
       threatened to bubble.  And to be fair after a shaky start, West
       Ham were excellent.  You'd think there's a t least one win in
       them in next couple of weeks.
       #Post#: 105633--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Chris Kavanagh - West Ham vs Arsenal 
   DIR By: mac
       Date: May 10, 2026, 4:01 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I heard on comms about sequence…not sure how relevant it is in
       this situation. In the Liverpool v City game the sequence was
       very clear; attacking foul & dogso followed by defensive foul,
       so right to penalise the first offence. In these, the sequence
       is only relevant for anything that happens after it is
       determined there is a foul on the gk. Anything that happens
       while the gk is being fouled, either attacking or defensive
       foul, must surely be at the same time and if severe/impactful
       enough to be penalised, treated the same as the gk foul.
       That’s why I think it’s iffy to review these scenarios as there
       is usually legitimate argument for more than one offence being
       committed.
       #Post#: 105639--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Chris Kavanagh - West Ham vs Arsenal 
   DIR By: dtrv2
       Date: May 10, 2026, 4:17 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Chris G?ld?r link ---
       >
       > [quote author=dtrv2 link=topic=8015.msg105613#msg105613
       date=1778438400]
       > Totally agree with everything TA_Ref has said. It's a clear
       foul - in fact two clear fouls - on Raya, so a free kick had to
       be given. The ball has dropped right where he's about to catch
       it. Yes, there was a foul on an Arsenal player at the front
       post, a foul by Trossard and Rice way off the ball, but as we've
       seen (and heard from Webb) this season, they're not going to
       give those fouls that would have no impact on the actual play.
       >
       > As for the time, seeing the replays, you don't need to watch
       it 17 times to see it's two clear fouls, but given the magnitude
       of the decision at both the top and bottom, I can fully
       understand the willingness to take their time and not rush.
       Unfortunately, as we can see in this thread, it does give some
       people the ammunition to argue that the time and number of
       replays means it's not clear and obvious, which is clearly was.
       Also, the whole 'referees call' is irrelevant here given
       Kavanagh had absolutely no ability to see the shirt pull or arm.
       Possibly Hussin could have helped but in a crowded area, it'd be
       very difficult to see. So with no on field call, that will have
       opened up the opportunity for VAR to come in.
       >
       > What I will say, is I do have sympathy with those who complain
       about other incidents where VAR has stayed out (and no, they
       haven't just happened in Arsenal matches...!). However, a) two
       wrongs don't make a right, and b) in a number of those, the
       referee will have seen those and judged there to be no foul,
       reducing the VAR's ability to intervene, so arguably not really
       comparing apples with apples.
       >
       > Anyway, outside of that big decision, thought Kavanagh did ok.
       Missed a few very late challenges as he turned away too quickly,
       but handled the tension and cynical challenges/time wasting late
       on well. Good intervention by James Bell too which then lead to
       the West Am coach getting sent off.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Your whole post seems to be based on the presumption that
       Kavanagh had no view of the incident. Unless you have access to
       and have heard some audio no one else has I don't know how you
       have come to that conclusion. It's certainly possible he had no
       view but until this is reviwed on the mic'd up programme and we
       all get to hear exactly what was seen and by who, it seems a bit
       presumptious to be posting about what "must have" happened based
       on something we don't know yet.
       [/quote]
       To be fair, that's a fair point. I've just never known a referee
       with the capability of seeing through the bodies of players. I'm
       sure this'll be covered in a future episode of Mic'd Up though,
       and we'll see then if CK had that ability. [emoji106]
       #Post#: 105640--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Chris Kavanagh - West Ham vs Arsenal 
   DIR By: TA_Ref
       Date: May 10, 2026, 5:06 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       For anyone that missed Match of the Day, Darren Cann was a guest
       on the programme this evening to help explain the VAR process,
       rationale of making the right decision, and discussing the other
       incidents occurring inside the box as well.
       He also explained his idea to stop all the nonsense happening
       from set pieces which has already been mentioned on the thread.
       I can’t attach the segment but it’s worth a listen if you
       haven’t watched it.
       #Post#: 105642--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Chris Kavanagh - West Ham vs Arsenal 
   DIR By: Adam
       Date: May 10, 2026, 5:53 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: TA_Ref link ---
       >
       > For anyone that missed Match of the Day, Darren Cann was a
       guest on the programme this evening to help explain the VAR
       process, rationale of making the right decision, and discussing
       the other incidents occurring inside the box as well.
       >
       > He also explained his idea to stop all the nonsense happening
       from set pieces which has already been mentioned on the thread.
       >
       > I can’t attach the segment but it’s worth a listen if you
       haven’t watched it.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I could listen to Darren Cann all day. He always gives great
       insight whenever hes on BBC and he comes across as well as the
       most lovely person. He came across really well in particular
       tonight so id echo what you said and say anyone who hasn't heard
       him give it a watch.
       #Post#: 105647--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Chris Kavanagh - West Ham vs Arsenal 
   DIR By: bruntyboy
       Date: May 10, 2026, 6:34 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: dtrv2 link ---
       >
       > Totally agree with everything TA_Ref has said. It's a clear
       foul - in fact two clear fouls - on Raya, so a free kick had to
       be given. The ball has dropped right where he's about to catch
       it. Yes, there was a foul on an Arsenal player at the front
       post, a foul by Trossard and Rice way off the ball, but as we've
       seen (and heard from Webb) this season, they're not going to
       give those fouls that would have no impact on the actual play.
       >
       > As for the time, seeing the replays, you don't need to watch
       it 17 times to see it's two clear fouls, but given the magnitude
       of the decision at both the top and bottom, I can fully
       understand the willingness to take their time and not rush.
       Unfortunately, as we can see in this thread, it does give some
       people the ammunition to argue that the time and number of
       replays means it's not clear and obvious, which is clearly was.
       Also, the whole 'referees call' is irrelevant here given
       Kavanagh had absolutely no ability to see the shirt pull or arm.
       Possibly Hussin could have helped but in a crowded area, it'd be
       very difficult to see. So with no on field call, that will have
       opened up the opportunity for VAR to come in.
       >
       > What I will say, is I do have sympathy with those who complain
       about other incidents where VAR has stayed out (and no, they
       haven't just happened in Arsenal matches...!). However, a) two
       wrongs don't make a right, and b) in a number of those, the
       referee will have seen those and judged there to be no foul,
       reducing the VAR's ability to intervene, so arguably not really
       comparing apples with apples.
       >
       > Anyway, outside of that big decision, thought Kavanagh did ok.
       Missed a few very late challenges as he turned away too quickly,
       but handled the tension and cynical challenges/time wasting late
       on well. Good intervention by James Bell too which then lead to
       the West Am coach getting sent off.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       The Trossard foul wasn't way off the ball and was in front of
       the Raya situation in the six yard box.
       In this instance it would appear that the referee initially
       judged there to be no foul as the goal wasn't disallowed.
       *****************************************************
       Page 5 of 10
   DIR Previous Page
   DIR Next Page