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#Post#: 105609--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh - West Ham vs Arsenal
DIR By: Adam
Date: May 10, 2026, 1:23 pm
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I think everyone agrees it meets the criteria to be a foul.
However the question is why intervene now? When, as you all say,
theres been so many similar incidents that havent. Thats my
gripe anyway.
#Post#: 105610--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh - West Ham vs Arsenal
DIR By: TA_Ref
Date: May 10, 2026, 1:26 pm
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I know the foul was given against Pablo,
But if we are also being honest, there is also a very clear
sustained shirt pull by Todibo on Raya before the ball reaches
that area.
(And please don’t crucify me on the fouls on the attackers. I’ve
already made that very clear)
#Post#: 105611--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh - West Ham vs Arsenal
DIR By: HChip
Date: May 10, 2026, 1:32 pm
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--- Quote from: olliebcafc link ---
>
> A very similar goal was checked and cleared on the opening day
of the season, Man Utd v Arsenal…
>
--- End Quote ---
Whoops - sorry! When I posted my post, yours didnt show above!
#Post#: 105613--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh - West Ham vs Arsenal
DIR By: dtrv2
Date: May 10, 2026, 1:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Totally agree with everything TA_Ref has said. It's a clear foul
- in fact two clear fouls - on Raya, so a free kick had to be
given. The ball has dropped right where he's about to catch it.
Yes, there was a foul on an Arsenal player at the front post, a
foul by Trossard and Rice way off the ball, but as we've seen
(and heard from Webb) this season, they're not going to give
those fouls that would have no impact on the actual play.
As for the time, seeing the replays, you don't need to watch it
17 times to see it's two clear fouls, but given the magnitude of
the decision at both the top and bottom, I can fully understand
the willingness to take their time and not rush. Unfortunately,
as we can see in this thread, it does give some people the
ammunition to argue that the time and number of replays means
it's not clear and obvious, which is clearly was. Also, the
whole 'referees call' is irrelevant here given Kavanagh had
absolutely no ability to see the shirt pull or arm. Possibly
Hussin could have helped but in a crowded area, it'd be very
difficult to see. So with no on field call, that will have
opened up the opportunity for VAR to come in.
What I will say, is I do have sympathy with those who complain
about other incidents where VAR has stayed out (and no, they
haven't just happened in Arsenal matches...!). However, a) two
wrongs don't make a right, and b) in a number of those, the
referee will have seen those and judged there to be no foul,
reducing the VAR's ability to intervene, so arguably not really
comparing apples with apples.
Anyway, outside of that big decision, thought Kavanagh did ok.
Missed a few very late challenges as he turned away too quickly,
but handled the tension and cynical challenges/time wasting late
on well. Good intervention by James Bell too which then lead to
the West Am coach getting sent off.
#Post#: 105614--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh - West Ham vs Arsenal
DIR By: chris.g?ld?r
Date: May 10, 2026, 1:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: dtrv2 link ---
>
> Totally agree with everything TA_Ref has said. It's a clear
foul - in fact two clear fouls - on Raya, so a free kick had to
be given. The ball has dropped right where he's about to catch
it. Yes, there was a foul on an Arsenal player at the front
post, a foul by Trossard and Rice way off the ball, but as we've
seen (and heard from Webb) this season, they're not going to
give those fouls that would have no impact on the actual play.
>
> As for the time, seeing the replays, you don't need to watch
it 17 times to see it's two clear fouls, but given the magnitude
of the decision at both the top and bottom, I can fully
understand the willingness to take their time and not rush.
Unfortunately, as we can see in this thread, it does give some
people the ammunition to argue that the time and number of
replays means it's not clear and obvious, which is clearly was.
Also, the whole 'referees call' is irrelevant here given
Kavanagh had absolutely no ability to see the shirt pull or arm.
Possibly Hussin could have helped but in a crowded area, it'd be
very difficult to see. So with no on field call, that will have
opened up the opportunity for VAR to come in.
>
> What I will say, is I do have sympathy with those who complain
about other incidents where VAR has stayed out (and no, they
haven't just happened in Arsenal matches...!). However, a) two
wrongs don't make a right, and b) in a number of those, the
referee will have seen those and judged there to be no foul,
reducing the VAR's ability to intervene, so arguably not really
comparing apples with apples.
>
> Anyway, outside of that big decision, thought Kavanagh did ok.
Missed a few very late challenges as he turned away too quickly,
but handled the tension and cynical challenges/time wasting late
on well. Good intervention by James Bell too which then lead to
the West Am coach getting sent off.
>
--- End Quote ---
Your whole post seems to be based on the presumption that
Kavanagh had no view of the incident. Unless you have access to
and have heard some audio no one else has I don't know how you
have come to that conclusion. It's certainly possible he had no
view but until this is reviwed on the mic'd up programme and we
all get to hear exactly what was seen and by who, it seems a bit
presumptious to be posting about what "must have" happened based
on something we don't know yet.
#Post#: 105615--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh - West Ham vs Arsenal
DIR By: Marvin Grapevine
Date: May 10, 2026, 1:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Darren England was the VAR in the Arsenal - Chelsea game who
didn’t get involved in two much clearer incidents at corners
where Rice hugged and handled the ball and Raya punched the head
of an attacker…
This is going to cause a lot of issues for PGMOL given the
importance of the decision at both ends of the table.
#Post#: 105616--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh - West Ham vs Arsenal
DIR By: TA_Ref
Date: May 10, 2026, 1:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Marvin Grapevine link ---
>
> Darren England was the VAR in the Arsenal - Chelsea game who
didn’t get involved in two much clearer incidents at corners
where Rice hugged and handled the ball and Raya punched the head
of an attacker…
>
> This is going to cause a lot of issues for PGMOL given the
importance of the decision at both ends of the table.
>
--- End Quote ---
The Rice incident should’ve resulted in a penalty but like
normal, hugging is being ignored.
Raya incident, using the word ‘punched’ a bit loosely in my
opinion. He punched the ball and there was very little glancing
contact on Pedro that day unlike other incidents where the
keeper goes full on into the attackers face.
Also, Darren England was the referee that day and John Brooks
was in VAR.
#Post#: 105617--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh - West Ham vs Arsenal
DIR By: Claretman
Date: May 10, 2026, 2:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TA_Ref link ---
>
> [quote author=Marvin Grapevine
link=topic=8015.msg105615#msg105615 date=1778438790]
> Darren England was the VAR in the Arsenal - Chelsea game who
didn’t get involved in two much clearer incidents at corners
where Rice hugged and handled the ball and Raya punched the head
of an attacker…
>
> This is going to cause a lot of issues for PGMOL given the
importance of the decision at both ends of the table.
>
--- End Quote ---
The Rice incident should’ve resulted in a penalty but like
normal, hugging is being ignored.
Raya incident, using the word ‘punched’ a bit loosely in my
opinion. He punched the ball and there was very little glancing
contact on Pedro that day unlike other incidents where the
keeper goes full on into the attackers face.
Also, Darren England was the referee that day and John Brooks
was in VAR.
[/quote]
I wouldnt call the Rice hugging more manhandling.
#Post#: 105618--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh - West Ham vs Arsenal
DIR By: El Referee
Date: May 10, 2026, 2:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: dtrv2 link ---
>
>
> As for the time, seeing the replays, you don't need to watch
it 17 times to see it's two clear fouls, but given the magnitude
of the decision at both the top and bottom, I can fully
understand the willingness to take their time and not rush.
Unfortunately, as we can see in this thread, it does give some
people the ammunition to argue that the time and number of
replays means it's not clear and obvious, which is clearly was.
Also, the whole 'referees call' is irrelevant here given
Kavanagh had absolutely no ability to see the shirt pull or arm.
Possibly Hussin could have helped but in a crowded area, it'd be
very difficult to see. So with no on field call, that will have
opened up the opportunity for VAR to come in.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
The moment you say ‘watch it 17 times’, gives you the clue that
it is not clear, nor obvious.
It doesn’t matter what the magnitude of the decision is. This is
just finding a way to justify such decisions. An incident in the
middle of the season should be treated the same as an incident
now.
There is a major disconnect between fans/ clubs and officials;
decisions and comments like this are a major reason why.
#Post#: 105619--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh - West Ham vs Arsenal
DIR By: gooner
Date: May 10, 2026, 2:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: HChip link ---
>
> I could be chatting absolute rubbish here but was this foul
not similar to the foul from Saliba on Bayindir in the first
game of the season that didn’t get given?
>
--- End Quote ---
hi,
biggest differences between the two incidents was that, at no
time did saliba have his hands on bayindir (or his shirt) and
that bayindir had both arms free and punched the ball into his
own net. seem to remember neville on comms at the time saying
bayindir has to be stronger.
regards,
gnr
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