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#Post#: 13402--------------------------------------------------
Re: I spy old refs
By: Microscopist Date: November 29, 2019, 7:43 am
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You are getting close, the age is about right and the RAF
connection is correct. Perhaps if I tell you that in the Asian
Nations Cup he refereed in the (then) newly built Taipei Stadium
in 1956 as the stadium's opening game and the away team were
South Korea. I think that you will have to depart from
Wikipedia to find him.
#Post#: 13403--------------------------------------------------
Re: I spy old refs
By: Acme Thunderer Date: November 29, 2019, 8:03 am
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Probably a red herring, but I recall my father saying that he
once played with or against Ron Challis soon after he was posted
to RAF Changi in Singapore in mid to late 1957. I assume Ron was
doing his national service although whether it was the RAF or
the Army who were also based at Changi, I don't know. And
although I arrived with my family at Changi in early 1958 and
was always keen on the RAF and Army football played there, I was
still too young to recall Ron who (I think) died a few years ago
anyway.
#Post#: 13404--------------------------------------------------
Re: I spy old refs
By: Microscopist Date: November 29, 2019, 8:12 am
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I'm guessing that this referee left Hong Kong 1957, he had
stopped playing but did coach the RAF team out there.
#Post#: 13406--------------------------------------------------
Re: I spy old refs
By: Whistleblower Date: November 29, 2019, 9:55 am
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[quote author=Acme Thunderer link=topic=8.msg13403#msg13403
date=1575036223]
Probably a red herring, but I recall my father saying that he
once played with or against Ron Challis soon after he was posted
to RAF Changi in Singapore in mid to late 1957. I assume Ron was
doing his national service although whether it was the RAF or
the Army who were also based at Changi, I don't know. And
although I arrived with my family at Changi in early 1958 and
was always keen on the RAF and Army football played there, I was
still too young to recall Ron who (I think) died a few years ago
anyway.
[/quote]
The late great Ron Challis, my refereeing mentor, did indeed
serve in the Armed Forces ( I do not remember which branch ) in
Singapore. I believe it was there that he took up refereeing
seriously. Sadly,the Final Whistle sounded for him in the great
Stadium in the sky some years ago and at not a terribly great
age.
I lived in Singapore during the late 1970s and therefore I had
the privilege of watching Ron refereeing the FA Cup Final in
1979 while lying on a couch having just enjoyed a very fine and
bibulous dinner. It was the match with the extraordinary ending
of three goals being scored in very swift time, Arsenal edging
out Manchester Utd 3 : 2 The match finished well after midnight
Singapore time. How the circles of time and place are joined.
#Post#: 13445--------------------------------------------------
Re: I spy old refs
By: Whistleblower Date: December 1, 2019, 7:14 am
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Wikipedia is a most unreliable source of information as they
list all 6 matches in the 1956 Asisan Nations Cup as taking
place in the same Stadium and the first match they record as
Hong Kong v Israel refereed by H A Sheppard of England. The only
other English referee Wikipedia mentions is a Tommy Tucker so I
guess the photograph is of one of those two gentlemen, unless
there was a third English referee present at the tournament.
Some of the 6 matches do not specify a referee but as
microscopist tells us this referee officiated at two matches my
strong suspicion is that it is either Sheppard or Tucker.
#Post#: 13448--------------------------------------------------
Re: I spy old refs
By: olddeagle Date: December 1, 2019, 8:34 am
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However, Microscopist tells us that the mystery ref did the
first match in the new Taipei stadium and the opposition was
South Korea. This must I think take us to the qualifying rounds
and not the finals
(
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1956_AFC_Asian_Cup_qualification).<br
/>If so, the match in question was on 2 Sept 1956 between what
is
now called Taiwan and was then known as the Republic of China.
South Korea won on aggregate and -again if Wikipedia is
right-they played Hong Kong in the final stages on the 6th. I'm
afraid that as they used to say on Monty Python, my brain
hurts.....
#Post#: 13458--------------------------------------------------
Re: I spy old refs
By: Acme Thunderer Date: December 1, 2019, 10:37 am
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[quote author=Microscopist link=topic=8.msg13402#msg13402
date=1575035008]
You are getting close, the age is about right and the RAF
connection is correct. Perhaps if I tell you that in the Asian
Nations Cup he refereed in the (then) newly built Taipei Stadium
in 1956 as the stadium's opening game and the away team were
South Korea. I think that you will have to depart from
Wikipedia to find him.
[/quote]
So not Capt C H Dennis who had a couple of seasons on the FL
referees list from 1958 whilst based at South Merstham?
#Post#: 13464--------------------------------------------------
Re: I spy old refs
By: Microscopist Date: December 1, 2019, 11:49 am
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[quote]I did try to steer you away from Wikipedia because I
found it confusing with apparently different pages covering the
same topic but with inconsistencies between them. However,
Whistleblower has identified two surnames, one of which is the
person in question but with the wrong first name - as only one
first name is given that identifies Tucker as the the surname.
If you had avoided wikipedia and gone instead to
HTML http://www.rsssf.com/tables/56asch.html
then you would have
found a singularly uninviting page which is difficult to read
but seems to be more accurate. There you would have found the
following:
[quote]2- 9-1956 Taiwan 1-2 South Korea [HT 1-0]
[Chu Wing-Keung 20' / Woo Sang-Kwon 66' pen, Kim
Dong-Keun 79']
[at Taipei Municipal Stadium, Taipei; kick-off 5pm;
att: 20000]
[Taiwan: Yung Poy-Dor (GK); Ng Wai-Man, Lau Yee;
Tang Sum, Lau Tim, Kwok Shek;
Szeto Man, Yeung Wai-To, Chu Wing-Keung
[c], Yiu Cheuk-Yin, Mok Chun-Wah.]
[South Korea: Ham Heung-Chul (GK); Cha Tae-Sung,
Park Jae-Sung [c]; Son Myung-Sup, Kim Jin-Woo, Kim Ji-Sung;
Choi Jung-Min, Sung Nak-Woon, Kim
Yung-Jin, Woo Sang-Kwon, Kim Dong-Keun.]
[Referee: Flying Officer Richard Tucker (Hong
Kong).]
[Coaches: Taiwan: Lai Shiu-Wing. South Korea: Kim
Sung-Kan.][/quote]
along with thgis:
[quote] 1- 9-1956 Hong Kong 2-3 Israel [HT 1-1]
[Au Chi-Yin 12' 67' / Yehoshua Glazer 37' 76',
Nahum Stelmach 69']
[at Government Stadium, Hong Kong; kick-off 5.45pm;
att: 30000]
[Hong Kong: Wai Fat-Kim (GK); Lee Ping-Chiu, Szeto
Yiu; Luk Tat-Hay, Ko Po-Keung [c], Chan Chi-Kong;
Chu Wing-Wah, Lau Chi-Lam, Au Chi-Yin,
Ho Cheung-Yau, Lam Kam-Tong.]
[Israel: Yaacov Hodorov (GK); Shaul Matania, David
Kremer; Moshe 'Jerry' Haldi, Itzhak Schneor [c], Binyamin
Rabinovich;
Boaz Kofman, Nahum Stelmach, Yehoshua
Glazer, Shmuel 'Papo' Israeli, Yosef Mirmovich.]
[Referee: Jack Sheppard (Hong Kong).]
[Coaches: Hong Kong: Tom Sneddon (Scotland).
Israel: Jackie Gibbons (England).][/quote]
and this:
[quote]12- 9-1956 Israel 2-1 South Vietnam [HT 2-0]
[Nahum Stelmach 16' 28' / Trần Văn Nhung
'Pierre' 58']
[at Government Stadium, Hong Kong; kick-off 6pm;
att: 10000]
[Israel: Yaacov Visoker (GK); David Kremer,
Yehoshua Glazer; Moshe 'Jerry' Haldi, Itzhak Schneor [c],
Binyamin Rabinovich;
Shmuel 'Papo' Israeli, Nahum Stelmach,
Rehavia Rosenbaum, Eliezer Spiegel, Yosef Mirmovich.]
[South Vietnam: Phạm Văn Rạng
(GK); Nguyễn Vi Nhơn 'Waico', Dương
Văn Quới; Trần Văn Ứng, Phạm
Văn Hiếu, Lê Văn Hồ 'Myo';
Trần Văn Nhung 'Pierre',
Đỗ Quang Thách, Đinh Văn Phải, Lê
Hữu Đức [c], Nguyễn Văn Tư.]
[Referee: Flying Officer Richard Tucker (Hong
Kong).]
[Coaches: Israel: Jackie Gibbons (England). South
Vietnam: none.]
[Note: it is also reported that Nguyễn
Văn Cụt played instead of Đinh Văn
Phải.][/quote]
So Richard Tucker was the referee in the picture, though not at
either of these two games. I came across the picture partly
through chance. A friend of mine who knows my affinity for
Manchester City often tells me of his brother-in-law who is
similarly afflicted and lives in Sandbach - he in turn knows
another City Fan who had set up a website and, as he had been a
photographer, it is packed with Manchester City pictures.
Looking through this site I discovered that he had also been a
referee and officiated at international matches whilst stationed
in Hong Kong with the RAF. I saw the picture on this web page -
HTML http://www.rtfract.com/soccgenrl.htm
- and thought of I spy old
refs - I'd miscalculated a bit on the dates as I thought perhaps
some of the East Anglian contingent might have come across him.
By the time I realised I had, being a couteous chap, e-mailed
him to ask if he minded my using the picture on the RTR website.
I got a lovely reply and he was going to check out the site.
He has published two books, one "The End of an Era" about Maine
Road (and I'm hoping Santa has managed to source a version of
this) and in 2015 "85 not out - and still clicking" from which
you can estimate his current age,[/quote]
Sadly I heard through my friend that Richard died two weeks ago
after a short stay in hospital. He was 96.
RIP.
#Post#: 13469--------------------------------------------------
Re: I spy old refs
By: olddeagle Date: December 1, 2019, 3:19 pm
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Thanks very much for an intriguing brain teaser and best wishes
to Mr Tucker for many more years enjoying his football.
#Post#: 13482--------------------------------------------------
Re: I spy old refs
By: Whistleblower Date: December 2, 2019, 1:20 am
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So Mr Tucker was in his mid 20s when this photograph was taken
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